Thoughts and Prayers!!!

Guy Chamberlin said:
I've heard the argument that we should better enforce the laws already in place. There's some merit to that.  But I haven't heard much else from the Second Amendment side. 

There are some mixed signals, as the other side tends to resist those laws already in place, and prefers not to fund any study of the subject. 
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I’m not a big gun owner but believe in the right to own.  Here is my thoughts on some of the discussion points:

Way better enforcement of current law, but I’m not in law enforcement so I don’t know what needs to take place exactly to fix that.  

magazine limits of 15-20 seems reasonable.  
 

background checks at gun shows (if they don’t already take place, never been to one so I don’t know) seems appropriate if it’s required at a gun store anyway.  
 

extended background checks for purchase of AR style guns and a longer waiting period to take possession. 
 

Penalties (including more than just monetary) for a licensed gun owner if their gun was used in a crime and not reported stolen and proven to be not locked up in a gun safe.  Would help make sure people lock up their guns at home.  
 

Mandatory training and licensing  to conceal carry/open carry if that state allows those options.  
 

Probably forgetting a few but those are my thoughts. 

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
I've heard the argument that we should better enforce the laws already in place. There's some merit to that.  But I haven't heard much else from the Second Amendment side. 

There are some mixed signals, as the other side tends to resist those laws already in place, and prefers not to fund any study of the subject. 
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I’ve asked what laws aren’t being enforced and don’t remember the answer.  

 
BigRedBuster said:
I’ve asked what laws aren’t being enforced and don’t remember the answer.  
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There are two problems with the 'enforce the laws we have' crowd that make their argument incredibly convenient. First, many of them will admit our current laws are under-enforced, but many of those laws lack teeth as they are written... or they have glaring loopholes. So, if we then suggest an overhaul or more strict laws, it becomes an argument of 'well, we can't do that because we can't even enforce current laws.' It's a no-win situation.

Second, many of those laws, even if they were enforced to the T with precision and timeliness, would still not address some of the biggest issues with gun control in general.

Broadly, though, these are some of the biggest loopholes and laws that I know of that are currently under-enforced or ineffective:

  • Background check system: although it has been mostly effective, some states have their own laws (inconsistencies, flaws and inefficiencies abound) while other states rely on the FBI. And if the FBI can't conclude the background check within 3 business days, sellers are legally able to move forward with the sale.
  • "Gun show" or private sales: we have no federal standard for ensuring a private sale of a gun is done with a background check; there's little holding these sellers accountable. And before somebody says it, it's not even a matter of under-enforcement. It's a matter of there being virtually nothing in place to ensure they're selling a gun to an eligible person.
  • No federal mandatory waiting period. You can literally manage all the elements of a firearm purchase in less than a business day even if you don't get the gun the same day.
  • Little to no mandatory training or storage safety laws (unless you want to do something like a CCL)
 
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Enhance said:
There are two problems with the 'enforce the laws we have' crowd that make their argument incredibly convenient. First, many of them will admit our current laws are under-enforced, but many of those laws lack teeth as they are written... or they have glaring loopholes. So, if we then suggest an overhaul or more strict laws, it becomes an argument of 'well, we can't do that because we can't even enforce current laws.' It's a no-win situation.

Second, many of those laws, even if they were enforced to the T with precision and timeliness, would still not address some of the biggest issues with gun control in general.

Broadly, though, these are some of the biggest loopholes and laws that I know of that are currently under-enforced or ineffective:

  • Background check system: although it has been mostly effective, some states have their own laws (inconsistencies, flaws and inefficiencies abound) while other states rely on the FBI. And if the FBI can't conclude the background check within 3 business days, sellers are legally able to move forward with the sale.
  • "Gun show" or private sales: we have no federal standard for ensuring a private sale of a gun is done with a background check; there's virtually nothing holding these sellers accountable. And before somebody says it, it's not even a matter of under-enforcement. It's a matter of there being virtually nothing in place to ensure they're selling a gun to an eligible person.
  • No federal mandatory waiting period. You can literally manage all the elements of a firearm purchase in less than a business day even if you don't get the gun the same day.
  • Little to no mandatory training or storage safety laws (unless you want to do something like a CCL)
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That’s what I e always thought and why I have asked.  It’s not a matter of enforcing current laws. The laws need tweaked.  

 
Cdog923 said:
Which one was the good guy with the gun, again?
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thats the problem police have when so many people have guns....it's tough to pick out which are good guys and which are the bad guys.   that poor cop who shot the samaritan is going to go through hell now that he knows what happened...but he rolled up on a scene with someone holding a gun and 2 people on the ground.  his training told him to take out the shooter

 
commando said:
thats the problem police have when so many people have guns....it's tough to pick out which are good guys and which are the bad guys.   that poor cop who shot the samaritan is going to go through hell now that he knows what happened...but he rolled up on a scene with someone holding a gun and 2 people on the ground.  his training told him to take out the shooter
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We had an SRO one year that told the staff that if they were involved in a school shooting and came across a gun they should quickly hide it but never ever pick it up.

His reason: when police show up to active shooters they are going to shoot anyone with a gun that isn’t a cop.   Pretty simple idea.

 
BigRedBuster said:
T&P…….well almost.  
 
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Oh goodie. Thank God they discovered this before they could act. But I fear the punishment at this point won’t fit the potential crime. Hopefully they’re convicted as if their plans had actually been carried out. So sick of these whackos.

I hate to say this but this is a good example of what the ultimate problem is. The guns police recovered in this ordeal were not responsible for killing multiple people. The guns are potential tools that may be used by mentally disturbed and/or criminal perpetrators. I’m not against common sense gun law reforms but we have to get to the crux of the problem if we really want to reduce these senseless mass killings.

 
JJ Husker said:
Oh goodie. Thank God they discovered this before they could act. But I fear the punishment at this point won’t fit the potential crime. Hopefully they’re convicted as if their plans had actually been carried out. So sick of these whackos.

I hate to say this but this is a good example of what the ultimate problem is. The guns police recovered in this ordeal were not responsible for killing multiple people. The guns are potential tools that may be used by mentally disturbed and/or criminal perpetrators. I’m not against common sense gun law reforms but we have to get to the crux of the problem if we really want to reduce these senseless mass killings.
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I don't believe we will ever find a cure for crazy.  We might be able to treat a lot of people for mental illness.  We might be able to institutionalize some that refuse to follow court orders.  We can raise our kids to be friends with everyone and make sure everyone is invited to the birthday party.

But in the end, there will still be sick people that want to hurt people.  It's never going to go away.  We can either continue to "be okay" with the status quo or get serious about the gun problem.  Taking away the tools is a required step, hopefully it can be done with common sense reform.  But let's be honest, there is no common ground with the two extremes.  

 
BigRedBuster said:
T&P…….well almost.  
 
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possible they were doing this in some sort of political anger over the game being moved from atlanta?  will have to wait and see what the investigation turns up....but i can see that possibly being the case

 
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funhusker said:
I don't believe we will ever find a cure for crazy.  We might be able to treat a lot of people for mental illness.  We might be able to institutionalize some that refuse to follow court orders.  We can raise our kids to be friends with everyone and make sure everyone is invited to the birthday party.

But in the end, there will still be sick people that want to hurt people.  It's never going to go away.  We can either continue to "be okay" with the status quo or get serious about the gun problem.  Taking away the tools is a required step, hopefully it can be done with common sense reform.  But let's be honest, there is no common ground with the two extremes.  
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Totally agree. Like I said, we need reforms that limit the number of guns (especially guns and mag sizes that are designed for maximum casualties) but we also need to take steps to reduce the number of people willing to commit such crimes.

When that piece of the puzzle is conveniently omitted, the whole discussion seems to indicate that gun laws alone seemingly will solve the problem. I don’t believe that. Yes it will help and yes it is needed but some of these whack jobs will still find a way to commit their atrocities. It will be tougher (not as easy), and it may cost them more to acquire those weapons on a black market, or some of them will find other ways to inflict mass casualties. Just so everyone realizes gun law reform is only a step (likely a significant step) towards better outcomes but it won’t be a magic cure. And granted, it would be much tougher and near impossible to completely fix the people problem. I just find it disturbing that so many in our society end up going down this path. We are doing something wrong that needs to be corrected in our homes and schools.

 
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