thoughts on next years record

[fro daddy]

:blink:

I am pretty confident most of you are drinking the top shelf stuff... :koolaid2:

It is WAY too early to know who has what. We all have ideas. We all have some playmakers returning. And we all have a lot of questions left to be answered.

I know this isnt a big 12 board and it is not often that I chime in on things like this, but I feel the need to defend my team/educate some of you, on how MU didn't lose all "playmakers" (i already had to do this once in my life when Brad Smith and crew left. you would think some of you would have learned then )

Nu's O line has some questions, but expected to be solid. MU's line is considered a strong unit and has young depth. Both should be good, SO then, just a quick look at offensive "PM's" for MU and NU that are returning and expected to play/compete to play

NU QB's

Witt, Lee & Green - combined 7/10 for 53 yrds and no TDs

MU QB's

Gabbert, Dalton & Glaser - combined 5/13 for 54 and no TDs

NU RB's

Helu, Castille & Burkhead (or whatever his name is) - 1270 yds, 13 TDs combined (no 1000 yrd rusher)

MU RB's

Washington, Moore & Lawerence - 1267 yrds, 18 TDs combined (washington had 1036 yrds)

NU WR's

Brooks, Cooper, Henry, Holt, Paul & Young - 68 catches, 736 yrds , 3 TDs combined

MU WR's

Perry, Alexander, Kemp, Mcgaffie & Jackson - 77 catches, 1009 yrds, 9 TDs combined

NU TE

McNeill - 32, 442, 6

MU TE

Jones - 20, 146, 0

Pretty even, maybe even an advantage to MU. (considering RB, WR and TE totals (Jones (TE) recorded those numbers in about 4 games)

* Career numbers for each teams top returning WR

NU

Holt - 34 rec, 452 yrds 1 TD in 3 years

Paul - 24 rec, 220 yds and 0 Tds in 2 years

MU

Perry - 91 rec, 1148 and 7 TDs in 3 yrs

Alexander - 78, 997 yds & 8 TDs in 3 yrs.

Both D's have questions as they are going to be inserting new players into so key positions. Many of NU's didnt play as they RS'd. Most of MU's played in the 2 deep and saw a lot of action. Both NU and MU return a All Conference caliber player, Suh and Weatherspoon. Both have a unit that is really a ? mark, Nu- LBS and MU -DB. Do those new players reach potential? Do they have a hard time making adjustments...

I am not trying to start an arguement or flame this thread, just stating some info and getting some conversation going.... :thumbs

 

[predictionking]

:blink:

I am pretty confident most of you are drinking the top shelf stuff... :koolaid2:

It is WAY too early to know who has what. We all have ideas. We all have some playmakers returning. And we all have a lot of questions left to be answered.

I know this isnt a big 12 board and it is not often that I chime in on things like this, but I feel the need to defend my team/educate some of you, on how MU didn't lose all "playmakers" (i already had to do this once in my life when Brad Smith and crew left. you would think some of you would have learned then )

Nu's O line has some questions, but expected to be solid. MU's line is considered a strong unit and has young depth. Both should be good, SO then, just a quick look at offensive "PM's" for MU and NU that are returning and expected to play/compete to play

NU QB's

Witt, Lee & Green - combined 7/10 for 53 yrds and no TDs

MU QB's

Gabbert, Dalton & Glaser - combined 5/13 for 54 and no TDs

NU RB's

Helu, Castille & Burkhead (or whatever his name is) - 1270 yds, 13 TDs combined (no 1000 yrd rusher)

MU RB's

Washington, Moore & Lawerence - 1267 yrds, 18 TDs combined (washington had 1036 yrds)

NU WR's

Brooks, Cooper, Henry, Holt, Paul & Young - 68 catches, 736 yrds , 3 TDs combined

MU WR's

Perry, Alexander, Kemp, Mcgaffie & Jackson - 77 catches, 1009 yrds, 9 TDs combined

NU TE

McNeill - 32, 442, 6

MU TE

Jones - 20, 146, 0

Pretty even, maybe even an advantage to MU. (considering RB, WR and TE totals (Jones (TE) recorded those numbers in about 4 games)

* Career numbers for each teams top returning WR

NU

Holt - 34 rec, 452 yrds 1 TD in 3 years

Paul - 24 rec, 220 yds and 0 Tds in 2 years

MU

Perry - 91 rec, 1148 and 7 TDs in 3 yrs

Alexander - 78, 997 yds & 8 TDs in 3 yrs.

Both D's have questions as they are going to be inserting new players into so key positions. Many of NU's didnt play as they RS'd. Most of MU's played in the 2 deep and saw a lot of action. Both NU and MU return a All Conference caliber player, Suh and Weatherspoon. Both have a unit that is really a ? mark, Nu- LBS and MU -DB. Do those new players reach potential? Do they have a hard time making adjustments...

I am not trying to start an arguement or flame this thread, just stating some info and getting some conversation going.... :thumbs

Wohhhh there fro daddy, I agree you weren't flaming, but your post is inaccurate.

First of all, Helu and Castille received most of their carries over the last half of the season. Helu ran for a 100+ against KU, K-State, OU, and Colorado. Hell, he ran for nearly 600 yards in those four games alone. He would've went over the century mark had he not been injured against Clemson. Helu is one of the top returning running backs in the Big 12.

Castille's 140 yards against Clemson demonstrated how dominating he can be. He's probably Nebraska's best talent at running back. If he can hold on to the football which he did against Clemson, his upside is that of a high NFL draft pick. If you look at the most highly recruited running backs in the Big 12 it goes Darrell Scott at CU, Demarco Murray at OU and Quentin Castille at Nebraska.

Washington has experience, no doubt, but he is not a gamebreaker. Without a dominating passing game, the running attack out of the Spread is limited in its potency. As Gabbert struggles or excels, the MU running game will do the same thing.

Comparing wideout numbers between these two programs is a bit of a stretch as well. A true Spread offense is always going to have multiple receivers with a lot of catches and yards. Holt nor Paul really ever played prior to last season.

Secondly, while Perry and Alexander are good wideouts, neither of them is Jeremy Maclin. In fact, neither of them bring the same intangibles as Tommy Saunders. Andrew Green is going to be a fine tight end, but he is not Chase Coffman, whom is destined to have a long NFL career.

Offensive line wise Nebraska has the edge from an experience standpoint. You guys lose Madison and Brown, NU loses Slauson and Murtha.

Murtha was injured so much the last two seasons that Javario Burkes started 8 games the last two seasons. NU actually returns 5 offensive linemen with multiple starts because 2 year starter Andy Christensen will be coming back after his assault hiatus.

Defensively, is where you're really wrong. Mizzou loses A LOT more than Nebraska.

Hood, Sulak, and Chavis are gone. Those are some good players. Hell, Stryker Sulak had a great career against the Huskers alone. Hood will be playing on Sundays. Sulak and Chavis will both get NFL looks. Witherspoon may be your most talented linebacker, but Brock Christopher was the heart and soul of your defense. He will be difficult to replace.

And with all due respect to Witherspoon, he does not behold the same type of presence as Ndamakong Suh. Suh will be the Big 12 Defense POY and a top 10 NFL draft Pick. Witherspoon's numbers will diminish with less talent up front on the Mizzou D-line.

The Mizzou secondary losses are well documented. Nebraska's secondary returns about 8 guys with experience. By the end of the season, they were making a lot of plays. NU's secondary is only going to get better with another year in Pelini's system and improved linebacking play.

As for the linebackers: NU's redshirts will be "icing on the cake" if they can come in and start. NU has a lot of players who earned PT last year. Dillard, Lawrence, and Koehler all return, along with Holt and May. What Whaley, Fisher, and Compton can give is gravy.

Nebraska and Mizzou both lose QB's, and their two best receiving threats. But for Mizzou those losses were far more monumental when you consider Nebraska has more returning talent and experience at other key spots.

I'll even give Gabbert the benefit of the doubt. Let's say he grasps the mental and the physical part of the game next year. let's say his decision making is outstanding. The Mizzou offense without the threat of Maclin, the talent of mismatch of Coffman, or the brains of Saunders, is far less potent.

As for the Record:

I think NU loses at Va Tech, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I think we beat Tech in Lincoln. Baylor will be tough. Mizzou will be tough because it's a night game in Columbia, but I think we win.

We roll the following:

The non-con minus Va Tech

IA State

K-State

We beat in competitive style:

Baylor

Tech

Mizzou

KU

CU

Iffy game but probably a loss:

OU

The OU game is all about Momentum. They lose a lot of beef on that o-line. If NU can go into that game with only one or two losses, I like our chances to keep it close in a raucous Memorial Stadium on a chili late Autumn Evening. I think the Baylor and Mizzou games are keys to the OU game. If we win those games and OU comes in when the Huskers are 7-1. I think NU has every chance to beat them.

Kool Laid Drinker? Nah, I just truly believe this defense is going to be for real next season.

 

[fro daddy]

Prediction,

I am not going to say your wrong, because after all, we are just giving opinions. But I would like to respond to a few things.

I never said that Helu or Castille didnt have gamebreaking ability, they do. But to claim Washington is not is not only unfair, it would be untrue. He broke many plays for long yards against a number of different teams. He would have to be considered a top returning back based off what he was able to do last year. And as you pointed out, comparing spread WR's to a control O's WR is unfair. A direct comparision between a MU RB and NU RB is the same way. With that said, the numbers I listed for our RBs stats last year do show some something. Also when you look at the numbers they are fairly even. NU did have 13 more total carries (plus Lucky running the ball too, but that goes back to the offensive philosophy) but everything is fairly even as far a yrds and yrds per carry.

In comparing numbers at first thought you would think it is really unfair, but in reality it is not. MU threw the ball for 1200 more yrds the last 2 years combined. 600 a year is alot, but then you must think about the sets. MU ran with more WR's, so more balls and more yrds, but also more players to split those numbers. It is a fair comparison to show just how big of a gap between the two exist. MU has WR's returning that caught a number of balls. Meaning they play ALOT and were involved ALOT. As compared to a Senior with 20 career catches.

I believe the O lines are pretty similar. Brown will be a loss but MU has been rotating and running two deep on line players for 2 years and will again be very strong, just like NU

Although MU did lose a number of players from the D, the key word is starters. In our defensive rotation, the D line more than the others, it is starters get 50-60% of plays, backups get 40-50%. Hood is a big loss. Great player. However Coulter and Aldon Smith had basically replaced Chavis. Coulter played more than 50% of snaps by the last 5 games between subing for both starters at end.

Weatherspoon is the most talented player on this team and may, as you said about Suh, win BIG 12 D player of the year. He is considered to be one of the top, if not best senior LB and one of the best defenders in the country. He was an AA this year and considered a 2nd round pick at worse if he would have came out (same as your boy Suh).

Although Christopher was a good player, Weatherspoon has been the heart and soul of the D for almost 2 years.

As far as the secondary, and this goes for both of us, if it acts, walks, talks like a duck, its a duck. And the nicest thing that could be said about both our teams DB's last year is they are ducks. We replace our ducks, you get yours back. Tell me how that is a good thing again.... :lol:

Nebraska and Mizzou both lose QB's, and their two best receiving threats. But for Mizzou those losses were far more monumental when you consider Nebraska has more returning talent and experience at other key spots.

This I just dont agree with. As I have already said, MU clearly brings back the better WR talent, not even close. RB's are about even really. I think we all agree that MU has the better potential at TE. O line is pretty even really also. So I guess I just dont see how NE clearly has more talent. (MU would not have done as well as they did, against everyone, NU included if they only had 3-5 players that were really good)

I agree that with Gabbert taking over there will be some let down. But I doubt there is the drop off that many people are expecting. Remember Maclin only played 2 seasons. Hell of a player. Not many like him. BUt MU has ran this Offense for 4 seasons. Pre-chase and with him. They have avg no worse than 30 pts a game and as high 42. MU scored under 30 pts in only 26% of their games out of 4 season worth. (14 times out of 53) They return alot of players who have lots of time in the system. Plus what many dont realize is even though DC (the O cord) left, MU game planned as a group of offensive coaches and Yost (the new OC) called plays with DC. But say just for arguements sake that MU scores on avg 2 less TDs a game next year. Thats still 28pts a game.

On some things we will have to agree to disagree, and thats cool with me :lol: I do like that you come with it as opposed to just random "you'll go back to being MU" or the "Pinkle factor is comming". Because then its easy to say things like "the Pinkel factor has avg over 8 wins a season since 03, and that includes a 4-2 record against NE". too easy. AGAIN, THANKS for knowing your team and bringing something! :thumbs

Just let me end with this, starting in 02, MU started bringing in better players. Each year their players got better. Each class more talented then the last. It is not like MU recruited its 2005 class and said "you know, I like Chase Daniel, Chase Coffman, Brock Christopher, Ziggy Hood, Kurtis Gregory, Darnell Terrell & Jaron Baston so much that we are going to quit recruiting and scoutiing talent. We are just riding this trian until the 09 season, then just, you know, wing it from there."

Here's to a good season for both teams :cheers , and a Nebraska loss in Columbia

:thumbs

 

[husker B-rent]

im sorry but i think you need to put down the black and gold shades bud. mcniel would start over your TE. Our Oline is clearly better. your WRs might have a very slight edge but not much if any. RBs are not even close, compare attempts vs. yardage.

cmon you are being WAY too much of a homer today.

 

[fro daddy]

im sorry but i think you need to put down the black and gold shades bud. mcniel would start over your TE. Our Oline is clearly better. your WRs might have a very slight edge but not much if any. RBs are not even close, compare attempts vs. yardage.

cmon you are being WAY too much of a homer today.

as you stated about your #1 NE player going to KU, MU didnt even want Mcneil. He couldnt play in our offense and I doubt Jones could start in yours. So therefor, he clearly wouldnt start over Jones. explain just how "clearly" your offensive line is better, besides the fact it is yours. WR has a major edge, slight is the biggest understatement you could have made. Perry alone has more catches and yards than every player on your roster.

As for RB's okay here you go big guy.

Helu - 125 carries, 6.4 yrds per, 803 yds, 7 TDs

Castile - 106, 4.4 per, 467 yds, 6 TDs

Washington 177, 5.9 per, 1036 yds, 17 TDs

Moore 41, 5.6 per, 231yds, 1 TD

I guess its just SO clear that its all coming to me now. Thanks for showing me the light...

Speaking of homer, if my Tigers had been spanked by the Huskers 3 of the last 4 yrs and I kept telling you just HOW MUCH MORE TALENTED they were then the Huskers, what would you say? Just a thought.....Maybe you would think the same way I do. Maybe you would see where I'm coming from. Maybe not...

 

[husker B-rent]

These are your starters.

72 Elvis Fisher | 6-5, 290, Fr., RS

65 Mike Prince | 6-4, 300, So., RS

71 Jayson Palmgren | 6-3, 305, Fr., RS

78 Kurtis Gregory | 6-5, 305, Jr., 2V

62 Tim Barnes | 6-4, 305, So., 1V

These are our starters.

65 Mike Smith | 6-6, 285, So., 1V

78 Marcel Jones | 6-7, 310, Fr., RS

68 Keith Williams | 6-5, 305, So., 1V

73 D.J. Jones | 6-5, 305, So., 1V

67 Jacob Hickman | 6-4, 290, Jr., 2V

Our guys were not only rated higher coming out of high school but they have also played more.

Except, Missouri DID offer Mcneill! so good try on that one.

having just asked fans on a couple different boards what they thought to back up my opinion. they consensus was that our Rbs are a lot better just as i said. Helu, without even starting the whole year, was only 200 yds short of your starter and averages 0.5 yards more per carry. in football, thats a lot.

Wrs yes you have more experience but the upside of our receivers is much higher and therefore i believe they will be better than yours.

anything else?

 

[Always a husker]

WR has a major edge, slight is the biggest understatement you could have made.

Not exactly we have some of the best blocking WR's in the nation and we have some guys redshirted who could step in so we will see.

 

[husker B-rent]

WR has a major edge, slight is the biggest understatement you could have made.

Not exactly we have some of the best blocking WR's in the nation and we have some guys redshirted who could step in so we will see.

thank you. fro seems to think that when it comes to WRs that catching passes is all there is to it. Even then our WRs have more potential than theirs do imo.

 

[fro daddy]

These are your starters.

72 Elvis Fisher | 6-5, 290, Fr., RS

65 Mike Prince | 6-4, 300, So., RS

71 Jayson Palmgren | 6-3, 305, Fr., RS

78 Kurtis Gregory | 6-5, 305, Jr., 2V

62 Tim Barnes | 6-4, 305, So., 1V

These are our starters.

65 Mike Smith | 6-6, 285, So., 1V

78 Marcel Jones | 6-7, 310, Fr., RS

68 Keith Williams | 6-5, 305, So., 1V

73 D.J. Jones | 6-5, 305, So., 1V

67 Jacob Hickman | 6-4, 290, Jr., 2V

Our guys were not only rated higher coming out of high school but they have also played more.

Except, Missouri DID offer Mcneill! so good try on that one.

having just asked fans on a couple different boards what they thought to back up my opinion. they consensus was that our Rbs are a lot better just as i said. Helu, without even starting the whole year, was only 200 yds short of your starter and averages 0.5 yards more per carry. in football, thats a lot.

Wrs yes you have more experience but the upside of our receivers is much higher and therefore i believe they will be better than yours.

anything else?

First

Mu's starters are

Elvis Fisher - Soph - 2 year starter - FR AA

Austin Wuebbles - Soph - first year stater

Tim Barnes - 2 year starter - Big 12 HM

Kurtis Gregory - 3 year starter - 2nd team Big 12

Dan Hoch - first year starter

Jacob Hickman got HM Big 12, no one else could be found. BUT, they had more stars ....

Stars dont matter jack squat. Husker fans of all people should know this. I would take my 2 star Sean Weatherspoon over any of your 4 or 5 star LB flops. I will take my barely a 4 star Jeremy Maclin over any player Nebraska had recruited in the past 10 years. Stars dont equal anything. EVEN your own coach says the same things....

So if I go to MU boards or other boards that means what they say is fact??? just checking. Here is a little more for you since you just dont seem to understand the numbers.

If Helu carried the ball as many times as Washington did in 14 games, with the same average that he had during the season (6.4) then he would have ran for 1133 yrds. Washington ran for 1036. SO your AWSOME RB, who is CLEARLY so much better than MU's would have ran for a whole freakin 97 more yards over 14 games. WITH A RUNNING TEAM. Holy smokes, thats like almost 7 more yards a game. He is way better. Maybe I should take that to other boards to make sure its fact. :wacko:

Chris Brooks has so much upside he almost made it off the bench for a whole season! Really! Think about what your saying. WHEN did NU become a spot for WR talent?? Just because you have Cooper? Paul? Buddy MU has 5 guys just like them. No, really they do.

You clearly love your team. THats cool. I like your backs, I like ours. I like your line, I like ours. I feel they are pretty much the same level. You feel they are clearly better, thats a point that you have tried to make painfully clear. Why dont we just shake on the fact that you dislike MU and believe NU is clearly the best team in the league behind OU. It would save us both a ton of time...

dedhoarse

 

[husker B-rent]

now you are just putting words into my mouth.

stars DO mean something. check this out.

http://www.athlonsports.com/college-footba...es-to-the-draft

We were NOT a running team.

from your comments it is quite clear that you do not know much about our players or depth.

as for the linemen, i was going off of your depth chart. which showed those guys as the starters!

Austin Wuebbles is listed behind kurtis gregory. palmgren is listed as your 2nd string last season. in fact you have guys listed in different positions than they actually play, so if you dont even know much about your own team then why would i expect you to know anything about the skers?

im seriously LOL at you.

 

[husker B-rent]

on top of all of that, you guys lose at least 13 of 22 starters!

 

[Enhance]

Here is my take on each game. WARNING: OPTIMISTIC

Florida Antlantic/Arkansas state - I group these together because it will take both of these teams on the field to beat NU. I'm not even going to go in depth with this one, so I'll just keep it at we start the season 2-0.

VaTech - I'm having a real tough time with this one. I think VaTech has more depth/talent right now on both sides of the ball and they have a pretty strong defense. Still, that defense didn't look too hot against Nebraska last season and they won on costly mistakes, especially Bo's foul :wacko: I still think Nebraska loses. 2-1

Louisiana-Lafayette Win, 'nuff said. 3-1

Missouri - If this was in Lincoln, I'd say for sure win. Even with it being in Missouri, I still think Nebraska wins. Missouri lost more key players on both sides of the ball than Nebraska did, and defensively Nebraska will have stepped it up next year. It's my honest opinion Missouri will be hurting more because of their QB troubles. Chase Daniel was their rock and their foundation, and with him gone they will take a huge hit. Nebraska wins, but will be tough fought. 4-1

Texas Tech Even after they lose their great quarterbacks, they still end up popping out a new one who deals out some good damage to opposing defenses. I think Nebraska comes away with this one, and finally beats TT. 5-1

Iowa State Coaching changes and lack of talent will hurt here. Easy win. 6-1

Baylor They'll be back firing this year with Griffin. Even though they had a good recruiting class, it's going to take awhile to get those guys to develop and be playmakers. 7-1

Oklahoma Still has the better talent and Stoops is a damn good coach during the regular season. Oklahoma rolls, but Nebraska fights and plays them close for parts of the game. 7-2

Kansas Kansas returns the most starters of any Big 12 north team. They will have an advantage offensively, but Nebraska will have the advantage defensively. 8-2

Kansas State Too many questions and not enough talent to compete yet. 9-2

Colorado This is the second hardest game for me to pick, behind KU. I'm not going to be able to pick this one until I see what Colorado does during the reg season. They never live up to their potential and seem to choke away games they are poised to win. If Colorado has a good season, we need to look out, but I still say win with a good Nebraska defensive performance. 10-2

Big 12 Championship Game Against Texas Texas has better talent and a poised returning quarterback. They'll win, but it should be close. Even in 2007 with all of Nebraska's troubles, they almost beat Texas and have played them very close the last 2 times we have played them. I think Texas wins though. 10-3

Bowl Game With a 10 and 3 season we still probably won't make it to a BCS bowl game and I think OU and Texas will take the two the Big 12 gets. I can't pick this one yet, but if we make it to a BCS bowl game, I don't think with our current talent and depth that we will win. We finish 10-4

The only games I'm not confident about are Kansas, Colorado, and VaTech. I think we take one from Missouri this year, though.

Cheers :koolaid2:

 

[fro daddy]

now you are just putting words into my mouth.

stars DO mean something. check this out.

http://www.athlonsports.com/college-footba...es-to-the-draft

We were NOT a running team.

from your comments it is quite clear that you do not know much about our players or depth.

as for the linemen, i was going off of your depth chart. which showed those guys as the starters!

Austin Wuebbles is listed behind kurtis gregory. palmgren is listed as your 2nd string last season. in fact you have guys listed in different positions than they actually play, so if you dont even know much about your own team then why would i expect you to know anything about the skers?

im seriously LOL at you.

LOL at me. You are a trip man.

First things first. MU recruits two types on OL. OT and interior line. THey dont recruit you to play one postion. IF you are a Tackle, you play both left and right. If you are interior line, you play RG/C/LG. They play multiple positions and the top 5 play.

2nd. Tim Barnes in a C, not a tackle as you have him listed. I know my Team, know their positions. But then again you know all about MU. So keep laughing. Infact here MU depth chart from 2008, Maybe you can laugh at Gary Pinkel too. He doesnt seem to know what position his players play. LOL

Okay your not a passing team, your not a running team. That makes you balanced then. But wow 97 yards!! lol

You are really looking good now.

But stars matter. Tell that to your #5 class who way owned by the #39 class. If you are a stars are all that matters, guy you are in for some serious dissapointment

Washington :star :star :star :star

Helu :star :star :star

McNeill :star :star :star

Jones :star :star :star :star

Green :star :star :star :star

Gabbert :star :star :star :star :star

Take that to your other boards... :woo

 

[husker B-rent]

ok im done with you, not even gonna tear that apart with its obvious deficiencies.

MU will be 12-0 regular season in 2009. You heard it here first.

 

[fro daddy]

What deficiencies? THe offical MU depth chart. You were wrong friend. Its okay...

THe part where you look silly for trying to call me out when you had no idea what you were talking about when it came to MU, its okay...

The part where you claim your player are better and that stars are all that matter, BUT the player you claim are better have less stars then those MU players...its okay

You make a big deal about avg carry and how there is only 200 yrds difference and that proves your player is better but when all is eqaul in carries there is 97 yds difference over 14 games, a whole 7 yds a game....its okay

You were wrong about things. I was wrong about things. Its all good man.

I never claimed MU was perfect. They are far from. But your arguement that they are not as talented as NU is bogus. But thats okay...