n.e.husker
Starter
Tim Beck...promising young OC, glad to have (payed)him on our side.
GBR
GBR
Tim Beck
- Thread starter Amac3309
- Start date
The King
Starter
Wow, this is pretty entertaining...
Anyway, I'm surprised no one mentioned how offenses have evolved since the 90s, which is partially why Taylor's numbers are so inflated, coupled with starting for four years. Did Tommie or Eric have the arm Taylor does? If they worked at it for 3 years, probably. I'd say if they both played in a spread offense you'd be looking at some big numbers from them also. It's a lot easier to have big passing plays than big running plays.
Do I think Taylor is bad? No, I do not. Do I think he is remotely close to being one of the best? Uh, no. Win %, CCG, National championships, hell, even bowl game wins decide that. I would even give him a pass since these teams don't quite stack up to the others, but he hasn't looked exactly like a world beater in 90% of our losses (fumbles, interceptions, poor decisions in general). It is just part of the legacy/tradition here at Nebraska. It is impossible to NOT put something in our trophy cases and be considered a "great" QB.
I've long said, and will continue to say - we will not win anything of significance with Taylor Martinez as our starting QB, and 3 years into the program, I continue to be right. It's not that I hate him or anything - his decisions, his inability to recognize certain coverages, his tendency to go 'hero' mode, coupled with his turnovers stack the odds against us. Personally, if Tommy Armstrong grasps this offense as well as he should (and is given some PT), I think that is when this offense will really take off.
Anyway, I'm surprised no one mentioned how offenses have evolved since the 90s, which is partially why Taylor's numbers are so inflated, coupled with starting for four years. Did Tommie or Eric have the arm Taylor does? If they worked at it for 3 years, probably. I'd say if they both played in a spread offense you'd be looking at some big numbers from them also. It's a lot easier to have big passing plays than big running plays.
Do I think Taylor is bad? No, I do not. Do I think he is remotely close to being one of the best? Uh, no. Win %, CCG, National championships, hell, even bowl game wins decide that. I would even give him a pass since these teams don't quite stack up to the others, but he hasn't looked exactly like a world beater in 90% of our losses (fumbles, interceptions, poor decisions in general). It is just part of the legacy/tradition here at Nebraska. It is impossible to NOT put something in our trophy cases and be considered a "great" QB.
I've long said, and will continue to say - we will not win anything of significance with Taylor Martinez as our starting QB, and 3 years into the program, I continue to be right. It's not that I hate him or anything - his decisions, his inability to recognize certain coverages, his tendency to go 'hero' mode, coupled with his turnovers stack the odds against us. Personally, if Tommy Armstrong grasps this offense as well as he should (and is given some PT), I think that is when this offense will really take off.
Very hard to compare the group. Most of our top QB's played with a very strong team around them. Some of the best Olines in college football. More confidence in them than Taylor most likely has in his. They had strong defenses that kept them from deep in their own end of the field, making more plays available. They had vastly better coaching than Taylor has received.
I do not think he is the best QB Nebraska has ever had, but a lot like Lord, he has done more with less than the others, a lot less.
He will end up with about all Nebraska QB records, and he will have earned them.
On Berringer, he was notified the day before his death that he would most likely go in the early second round. Pretty good QB it seems to me. Higher then razier, and Crouch, and Frost. I think Tagge went higher. Not sure on Humm.
Doubtful Taylor will be a drafted QB, but I would sure like to have seen him with some of the top Olines the others played with. Ball security may have been less of an issue with the normal revolving door on his left side not opening.
I can promise you one thing, there is not another person on this team that wants to win more, and not for himself, but for Nebraska. No one works harder at his trade, gives more effort, and respects his head coach more than Taylor. It is time we understand that he is the best we have and there is a reason for it. Hard dedicated work and it should be rewarded.
Is he number 2, 5, 9 or 23. I really do not care. He is the best we have and has tried very hard to be what we all want him to be.
I do not think he is the best QB Nebraska has ever had, but a lot like Lord, he has done more with less than the others, a lot less.
He will end up with about all Nebraska QB records, and he will have earned them.
On Berringer, he was notified the day before his death that he would most likely go in the early second round. Pretty good QB it seems to me. Higher then razier, and Crouch, and Frost. I think Tagge went higher. Not sure on Humm.
Doubtful Taylor will be a drafted QB, but I would sure like to have seen him with some of the top Olines the others played with. Ball security may have been less of an issue with the normal revolving door on his left side not opening.
I can promise you one thing, there is not another person on this team that wants to win more, and not for himself, but for Nebraska. No one works harder at his trade, gives more effort, and respects his head coach more than Taylor. It is time we understand that he is the best we have and there is a reason for it. Hard dedicated work and it should be rewarded.
Is he number 2, 5, 9 or 23. I really do not care. He is the best we have and has tried very hard to be what we all want him to be.
Hedley Lamarr
All-American
The King
Starter
Did you just see UCLA play in their bowl game? Yikes. In Lincoln, with a D that will actually have speed on the field (yes, next year we are putting speed on the field - UCLA this year opened our eyes to that), and we almost won this year playing like absolute sh#t.
Not buying that.
Michigan State? Depends on who declares to this year for the NFL draft. Not overly worried about them.
Northwestern? I think they lose something like 8 or 9 starters this year. Not worried.
Penn State going to suck.
Michigan is a legitimate threat.
Hedley Lamarr
All-American
UCLA was under a first year HC with a Fr QB. I still think Mora could easily beat us.
If Fitz doesn't go stupid and plays Colter at QB for 4 quarters we could easily lose that game.
I agree that we are putting more speed on the field. It is inexperienced and green speed that will have many growing pains. We had Srs lost on the field this year. We will have Fr and Sophs lost on the field at times next season.
Roger Dorn
Five-Star Recruit
Couldn't have said it better myself. Taylor is a top tier athlete but not a top tier quarterback and that is why we won't win anything significant with him at the helm.
huKSer
All-American
This is like most sports award - what is the Heisman qualification? MVP? Offensive player of the year? Most indispensible player (team would tank without him)? Best player on the best team? Team leader? Stats leader? Character? Most improved?
Also recent players shouldn't be ranked historically. There should be some test of time involved for subjective rankings - Presidential rankings have changed 15 to 20 years down the road, both up and down.
So beginning with the modern era (2 platoons) and ending with Crouch, my picks for categories:
Most important for the program: Bob Churchich He was the QB that ended two decades of yuck.
Most important for putting the program in the national elite: Jerry Tagge He QB'd the first two national championships and beat out a very capable Van Bronson.
Most gutsy: Tommie Frazier - blood clots
Best win percent: Turner Gill 93.3%
Most valuable to season's success: Matt Turman
Most decorated: Eric Crouch
Most successful in next level: Vince Feragammo
Also recent players shouldn't be ranked historically. There should be some test of time involved for subjective rankings - Presidential rankings have changed 15 to 20 years down the road, both up and down.
So beginning with the modern era (2 platoons) and ending with Crouch, my picks for categories:
Most important for the program: Bob Churchich He was the QB that ended two decades of yuck.
Most important for putting the program in the national elite: Jerry Tagge He QB'd the first two national championships and beat out a very capable Van Bronson.
Most gutsy: Tommie Frazier - blood clots
Best win percent: Turner Gill 93.3%
Most valuable to season's success: Matt Turman
Most decorated: Eric Crouch
Most successful in next level: Vince Feragammo
So everyone blames the QB, he is not good enough for this and that, he folds under preasure. He throws pick six's, he falls down in a fetal position. He just is not good enough to win for Nebraska.
ONE question for all those that bash on this kid. WHO PUT HIM and Nebraska in this position. WHO?
The buck stops at the top. Some could say we will never win with the head coach we have, just as easily as blaming the college kid. It would be far closer to right I think.
ONE question for all those that bash on this kid. WHO PUT HIM and Nebraska in this position. WHO?
The buck stops at the top. Some could say we will never win with the head coach we have, just as easily as blaming the college kid. It would be far closer to right I think.
The King
Starter
You're taking this a little too personally, skersfan. It's nothing against Taylor - he is our best QB option. No one said it is Taylor's fault, you can't blame limitations on a person, for we all have them. I'd say he is a decent QB in the grand scheme of things, just not the best. There is nothing wrong with that.
Hedley Lamarr
All-American
You are correct in who is at fault for Martinez starting. I don't blame Martinez for losing games all by himself. He does at times try to put it all on his shoulders and do things sporadically that can cost us. He often starts out poor and digs us a hole. That is on him. He isn't forced to make some of the throws he does. He often has 2nd and 3rd options wide open.
Him not seeing them could be attributed to him or Beck. If it is Beck then that is on Bo. If it is Taylor that is also on Bo as he was unable to find a qb capable of it. The offense beck has does not need a crazy fast freak athlete at qb. It needs a game manager that can read a defense and scramble if needed. I really think our offense will reach new levels in the years to come.
Landlord
Banned
Hey guys. I have some things to say too!
1. What exactly are we arguing about here? Notice how the thread title says "Tim Beck".
2. Again, what exactly are we arguing about here? You guys sound so awful accusing others of idiocy for disagreeing with something that isn't easily defined. Hedley, you don't think Taylor is one of the greatest NU quarterbacks ever? Why not? Where is the cutoff point for greatness? The 5th greatest? The 10th? 20th? Being great isn't definable, nor is "one of the greatest". Opinions are well and good, but keep in mind that you're arguing and getting worked up over something arbitrary that is perceived very differently by different people. That being said...
The bold is factually incorrect. The definition of the word average is the mean, or middle, when compared with all other entries into a data pool. Since he ranks 37th in the nation out of 116 entries for quarterback rating, he is quite above average as a quarterback. Furthermore, while the rest of this argument can not be proven wrong statistically, arguments can still be made, and it still reeks of unnecessary bias. While he has crumbled, that is a different statement entirely than "he crumbles", which implies consistency and steadfastness in crumbling. Taylor was 4-2 this season in games when trailing by multiple scores, against the 9th, 19th, 20th, 31st and 32nd ranked defenses in terms of points allowed per game. Since our offense was 27th in points scored per game, statistically speaking, he has success more often than he falls apart when facing teams with equal or greater skill.
Next point please.
I wonder what your thoughts on Sam Keller are.
1st Bolded Sentence - Seems to be a logical coaching move not to give your 2nd-best quarterback less playing time than your best. Cody got his shots, what did he do with them? Oh, right...he performed much worse than Taylor did.
2nd Bolded Sentence - Tim Beck has given Taylor very liberal control over our offense. He often makes his own audibles, and has been praised by coaches with his pre-snap decision-making and diagnosing of defenses. Carnes is worse at learning the playbook because, according to the coaches of the team, Taylor is damn good at doing so.
3rd Bolded Sentence - Cody Green was the 6th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, 19th in the state of Texas a quarterback recruit, and 173rd in the country as a quarterback recruit. Brion Carnes was the 7th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, and 44th in the state of Florida as a quarterback recruit. Jamal Turner was the 7th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, 19th in the state of Texas a quarterback recruit, and 140th in the nation as a quarterback recruit. Tommy Armstrong was the 9th rated Dual-Threat quarterback and 49th in the state of Texas as a quarterback recruit.
Once again, your point is demonstrably false. NU has recruited all quarterback prospects except for one (Taylor Martinez).
Next point.
Contrary to uninformed, young Husker fan perception, we didn't routinely beat every team we played by 50 points every year of Tom Osborne's career. I'm not going to bother proving it, because I'm already spending too much time on this post, but most all of the other quarterbacks we deem as great in school history played four quarters in the majority of their games, just like Taylor.
Furthermore, Taylor sat out two games in 2010, played in only 13 games last season, and 14 this season. That puts him at an average of 13 per year. This is less than a half a game higher of an average compared to Tommie Frazier, Scott Frost, Eric Crouch and Turner Gill.
Further still, Taylor has broken plenty more records than just career-long records. Here are a few:
241 rushing yards against Kansas State in 2010 - most by a Husker quarterback in one game
5 consecutive 100 yard rushing games in 2010 - most by a Husker quarterback in one season
Best passing seasons by Freshman, Sophomore and Junior classes in 2010, 2011 and 2012, respectively
Best total offense games by Freshman and Sophomore classes in 2010 and 2011, respectively
Best total offense seasons by Freshman, Sophomore and Junior classes in 2010, 2011 and 2012, respectively
2nd, 4th and 8th greatest total offense seasons in 2011 and 2012, respectively
It is possible to compare certain elements between two things while dismissing other elements. Here, let me show you. For example, I am a white male. Brett Farve is also a white male. Therefore, in this regard, Brett Favre and I are similar. Another example, Brett Favre sends penis pictures to women. It wouldn't surprise me if you did also. Therefore, you may or may not be similar to Brett Favre in this regard.
That being said, obviously nobody was comparing Taylor to Brett in terms of future professional success, but only in gunslinger mentality as quarterbacks.
Nice reach there, next point please.
-------------
vs Washington - 7/11, 1 touchdown, 0 interceptions
vs Kansas State - 5/7, 1 touchdown, 0 interceptions
vs Oklahoma State - 23/35, 5 touchdowns, 0 interceptions
vs Missouri - 6/9, 1 touchdown, 0 interceptions
vs Ohio State - 16/22, 2 touchdowns, 1 interception
vs Michigan State - 7/13, 2 touchdowns, 1 interception
vs Northwestern - 28/37, 2 touchdowns, 0 interceptions
vs Iowa - 12/22, 1 touchdown, 0 interceptions
vs Wisconsin - 17/29, 2 touchdowns, 0 interceptions
vs Northwestern - 27/39, 3 touchdowns, 0 interceptions
vs Michigan - 14/24, 1 touchdown, 1 interception
vs Penn State - 12/20, 1 touchdown, 0 interceptions
This list isn't exhaustive, only representative.
Next point please.
I love when people state their opinions as if they're facts, and then backtrack claiming they are wronged and only posting their opinion. You said our record will have 4 losses on it. You said we have more question marks on defense next season. Throughout the thread, without actually looking, you consistently state your thoughts, but you don't actually state that they are your thoughts, you just state that these things are or will be. You don't want people to jump to conclusions, don't give them a justified reason to.
This is why people can't stand you. You post what you think are just your opinions, but you post them in the spirit of knowing fully that they are truth.
1. What exactly are we arguing about here? Notice how the thread title says "Tim Beck".
2. Again, what exactly are we arguing about here? You guys sound so awful accusing others of idiocy for disagreeing with something that isn't easily defined. Hedley, you don't think Taylor is one of the greatest NU quarterbacks ever? Why not? Where is the cutoff point for greatness? The 5th greatest? The 10th? 20th? Being great isn't definable, nor is "one of the greatest". Opinions are well and good, but keep in mind that you're arguing and getting worked up over something arbitrary that is perceived very differently by different people. That being said...
The bold is factually incorrect. The definition of the word average is the mean, or middle, when compared with all other entries into a data pool. Since he ranks 37th in the nation out of 116 entries for quarterback rating, he is quite above average as a quarterback. Furthermore, while the rest of this argument can not be proven wrong statistically, arguments can still be made, and it still reeks of unnecessary bias. While he has crumbled, that is a different statement entirely than "he crumbles", which implies consistency and steadfastness in crumbling. Taylor was 4-2 this season in games when trailing by multiple scores, against the 9th, 19th, 20th, 31st and 32nd ranked defenses in terms of points allowed per game. Since our offense was 27th in points scored per game, statistically speaking, he has success more often than he falls apart when facing teams with equal or greater skill.
Next point please.
By what objective, impartial plane can we judge the competition a quarterback goes up against to become a starter? Zac Lee, Cody Green and Brion Carnes were all highly rated recruits, so I guess we can't use that basis or your argument would break. Zac and Cody both started games and got chances over Taylor his freshman year, so we can't use that basis either. I guess I can't find any fair way of judging their merits, it seems the difference between being a good player who earns his job against good competition and being "the best smelling turd in the potty" is entirely dependent on your bias of opinion as to whether the starter is any good or not.
I wonder what your thoughts on Sam Keller are.
1st Bolded Sentence - Seems to be a logical coaching move not to give your 2nd-best quarterback less playing time than your best. Cody got his shots, what did he do with them? Oh, right...he performed much worse than Taylor did.
2nd Bolded Sentence - Tim Beck has given Taylor very liberal control over our offense. He often makes his own audibles, and has been praised by coaches with his pre-snap decision-making and diagnosing of defenses. Carnes is worse at learning the playbook because, according to the coaches of the team, Taylor is damn good at doing so.
3rd Bolded Sentence - Cody Green was the 6th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, 19th in the state of Texas a quarterback recruit, and 173rd in the country as a quarterback recruit. Brion Carnes was the 7th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, and 44th in the state of Florida as a quarterback recruit. Jamal Turner was the 7th rated Dual-Threat quarterback, 19th in the state of Texas a quarterback recruit, and 140th in the nation as a quarterback recruit. Tommy Armstrong was the 9th rated Dual-Threat quarterback and 49th in the state of Texas as a quarterback recruit.
Once again, your point is demonstrably false. NU has recruited all quarterback prospects except for one (Taylor Martinez).
Next point.
Contrary to uninformed, young Husker fan perception, we didn't routinely beat every team we played by 50 points every year of Tom Osborne's career. I'm not going to bother proving it, because I'm already spending too much time on this post, but most all of the other quarterbacks we deem as great in school history played four quarters in the majority of their games, just like Taylor.
Furthermore, Taylor sat out two games in 2010, played in only 13 games last season, and 14 this season. That puts him at an average of 13 per year. This is less than a half a game higher of an average compared to Tommie Frazier, Scott Frost, Eric Crouch and Turner Gill.
Further still, Taylor has broken plenty more records than just career-long records. Here are a few:
241 rushing yards against Kansas State in 2010 - most by a Husker quarterback in one game
5 consecutive 100 yard rushing games in 2010 - most by a Husker quarterback in one season
Best passing seasons by Freshman, Sophomore and Junior classes in 2010, 2011 and 2012, respectively
Best total offense games by Freshman and Sophomore classes in 2010 and 2011, respectively
Best total offense seasons by Freshman, Sophomore and Junior classes in 2010, 2011 and 2012, respectively
2nd, 4th and 8th greatest total offense seasons in 2011 and 2012, respectively
It is possible to compare certain elements between two things while dismissing other elements. Here, let me show you. For example, I am a white male. Brett Farve is also a white male. Therefore, in this regard, Brett Favre and I are similar. Another example, Brett Favre sends penis pictures to women. It wouldn't surprise me if you did also. Therefore, you may or may not be similar to Brett Favre in this regard.
That being said, obviously nobody was comparing Taylor to Brett in terms of future professional success, but only in gunslinger mentality as quarterbacks.
Nice reach there, next point please.
-------------
vs Washington - 7/11, 1 touchdown, 0 interceptions
vs Kansas State - 5/7, 1 touchdown, 0 interceptions
vs Oklahoma State - 23/35, 5 touchdowns, 0 interceptions
vs Missouri - 6/9, 1 touchdown, 0 interceptions
vs Ohio State - 16/22, 2 touchdowns, 1 interception
vs Michigan State - 7/13, 2 touchdowns, 1 interception
vs Northwestern - 28/37, 2 touchdowns, 0 interceptions
vs Iowa - 12/22, 1 touchdown, 0 interceptions
vs Wisconsin - 17/29, 2 touchdowns, 0 interceptions
vs Northwestern - 27/39, 3 touchdowns, 0 interceptions
vs Michigan - 14/24, 1 touchdown, 1 interception
vs Penn State - 12/20, 1 touchdown, 0 interceptions
This list isn't exhaustive, only representative.
Next point please.
I love when people state their opinions as if they're facts, and then backtrack claiming they are wronged and only posting their opinion. You said our record will have 4 losses on it. You said we have more question marks on defense next season. Throughout the thread, without actually looking, you consistently state your thoughts, but you don't actually state that they are your thoughts, you just state that these things are or will be. You don't want people to jump to conclusions, don't give them a justified reason to.
This is why people can't stand you. You post what you think are just your opinions, but you post them in the spirit of knowing fully that they are truth.
NebraskaHarry
All-Conference
I laughed pretty hard on that penis remark... Great post Landlord!
Amac3309
Special Teams Player
Wow man I'm fairly new here but that is kinda strong, who cares if someone believes what they say to the point it's truth to them, makes for good debate as long as it doesn't get personal, and bottom line most debates aren't gonna change most of our opinions, period
So anyone find out the others teams that wanted to offer beck?