Time to bench Tommy and start one of the underclassmen against Minnesota

zoogs said:
One thing is that was only a spring game, and another is maybe health concerns. Bush was the #2 in Spring and apparently had a very bad fall camp.

Tommy, I love the guy, but he needs to have better feet when he throws. He needs to find ways to not have games like this. There's nobody to push him right now either, and that is not an ideal situation. If Tommy plays like this next year, you bet they'd give a good hard look at the true freshman if he's ready. A JUCO transfer may be warranted for depth at this point, because even the most talented true freshmen usually redshirt, and POB has honestly not played QB for very long, IIRC.
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TA isn't a pocket passer. Never has been and never will be. If TA is the guy, then Riley needs to learn to lean on and stick to the run game along with developing a RB. Then use the run game and PA to use the passing game. This will help keep pressure of TA and allow him to play "outside" the pocket. Lastly, have TA throw while rolling out. It allows him to throw with a more natural "follow through" motion, negates a pass rush and helps the OL with the "poor" blocking.

 
lo country said:
zoogs said:
One thing is that was only a spring game, and another is maybe health concerns. Bush was the #2 in Spring and apparently had a very bad fall camp.

Tommy, I love the guy, but he needs to have better feet when he throws. He needs to find ways to not have games like this. There's nobody to push him right now either, and that is not an ideal situation. If Tommy plays like this next year, you bet they'd give a good hard look at the true freshman if he's ready. A JUCO transfer may be warranted for depth at this point, because even the most talented true freshmen usually redshirt, and POB has honestly not played QB for very long, IIRC.
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TA isn't a pocket passer. Never has been and never will be. If TA is the guy, then Riley needs to learn to lean on and stick to the run game along with developing a RB. Then use the run game and PA to use the passing game. This will help keep pressure of TA and allow him to play "outside" the pocket. Lastly, have TA throw while rolling out. It allows him to throw with a more natural "follow through" motion, negates a pass rush and helps the OL with the "poor" blocking.
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Haha ... TA can't throw off his back foot while rolling out. I never thought of it from that point of view before.

 
They have TA rolling out a ton. Some good, some bad, but it's definitely a featured part of the passing game.

You do start to wonder if maybe the best way to win this year isn't to go with a plan where they just run him 20 times a game and have him throw 15-20. Have to do something to try to avoid these passing lulls.

 
zoogs said:
They have TA rolling out a ton. Some good, some bad, but it's definitely a featured part of the passing game.

You do start to wonder if maybe the best way to win this year isn't to go with a plan where they just run him 20 times a game and have him throw 15-20. Have to do something to try to avoid these passing lulls.
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Yeah, it would be the best way to win with him. Not gonna happen though.

 
I think we get too caught up in whether we should pass or run and should be more concerned about doing whatever play is called well instead of just halfassing everything.


 
I think the preferred option -- and it's fair -- is just to get the passing game going again. When things are clicking, it's dangerous. Our receivers are a team strength. TE Cethan Carter has potential that everyone seems to love. Our top RB is probably better in the pass game than in the run game.

However, if things keep going the way they did in the opening two games of conference play...at some point, you have to call it. Can't go 40% passing the rest of the year.
 
I agree that we could run more, but teams are not stupid. Defenses can stop our run game. They can make us pass. This is why you have got to be balanced. Run game is important, but when your one way, either way, your setting yourself up to Solich like results.

Talent is key still. Pull the blinders, and realize that talent can't cover wideouts from opposing teams. Talent can't throw timing pattern passes, talent can't break more than a 13 yard run. Its a talent issue. Riley may not be the answer, but going backwards in time to option oriented game won't last long either. Georgia Tech anybody. They have decent years, years like this one so far. Can't beat anyone, because they can't do anything but run. Keep watching G-Tech, and just think about Neb doing that still in this day and age.

Did I see correct that someone is comparing TA to Tommy Frazier? The same Tommy that had Lawrence Phillips, Ahman Green, Makovicka, Schelsinger,ETC. Can't compare those, sorry. How many draft picks are on this current team? How many were on those teams in the 90's, 80's. The offensive lineman and D-ends alone were year after year draft picks. RB's were drafted yearly. TE were drafted often. WR's were drafted because they could catch the ball and block downfield.

MAybe TA is as talented as TF, but the talent around him isn't even close. By the way, anyone who thinks that TA is better than TF is still living in the dark ages. There is also a difference among winners and losers.

Again, second staff, same mistakes from QB, same issues. At some point stop fingering the coaches, and point the finger at the common thread, and thats the current group of players that are responsible to losing 7 out of 10 games. Again, look at the wins in that time frame, and look at the losses. We beat Iowa, South Alabama, and Southern Miss. We lost to Michigan ST, Wiskyx2, Minnesota, Miami, BYU, and Illinois. Illinois is the only team who wasn't ranked this season or last season. Those numbers don't lie. Talent doesn't lie. Talent wins.

 
Hayseed said:
I think we get too caught up in whether we should pass or run and should be more concerned about doing whatever play is called well instead of just halfassing everything.
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Whether a play is a pass or run, tracking that ratio, etc....the most overrated thing in football. It reduces this beautiful game into a dichotomy.

Playcalling and play design is a fun part of the game to talk about but football wouldn't be nearly as engaging if execution wasn't the other half of the equation.

You are absolutely right. Think about this, what play do we run really well? What play do we go to on third down when we have to convert? What series of plays do we run when we need to score with two minutes left? To get one first down?

 
brophog said:
Hayseed said:
I think we get too caught up in whether we should pass or run and should be more concerned about doing whatever play is called well instead of just halfassing everything.
Click to expand...
Whether a play is a pass or run, tracking that ratio, etc....the most overrated thing in football. It reduces this beautiful game into a dichotomy.

Playcalling and play design is a fun part of the game to talk about but football wouldn't be nearly as engaging if execution wasn't the other half of the equation.

You are absolutely right. Think about this, what play do we run really well? What play do we go to on third down when we have to convert? What series of plays do we run when we need to score with two minutes left? To get one first down?
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Yeah, we were speculating up above that the best strategy for the rest of this year might be to let Tommy do what he does best...run...and if he gets hurt put in Bush who is a damn talented runner himself. That got me to thinking about the kind of running game we've seen so far and I'm thinking we need a big improvement in execution of whatever we do or we're just kidding ourselves. If our run game was actually something to be feared then I think the passing game would open up and take care of itself.....we have the receivers, just haven't seen them much lately.

 
Yeah, and to be clear guys, I am totally spitballing when it comes to imagining different approaches the offense might take. It's fun to speculate but I can't be wedded to any particular approach. We'll see what happens.

I respect the idea of keeping Tommy upright, but he might be able to run a heavy load and not get injured anyway. Or he might hang in the pocket and get knocked out by a vicious sack. It's no good to lose games anyway!

Good thoughts from a lot of folks in this thread. +1's everywhere!
 
This is why you have got to be balanced.
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I don't mean to be dismissive (I realize I am here), but this is a pet peeve of mine ( and a reason I hate the word balance ).
Balance means to move toward a state of equilibrium.

When balanced offenses run on first down, they tend to pass on second down. When they pass on first down, they tend to run on second down. They make statements about how hard it is to run three times in a row. It's putting a measurement ahead of the goal. Why worry about an arbitrary ratio when you could be concerned with what works. If a play works 50 times in a row, why not run it 50 times in a row. Balance as an idea also tends to work against human psychology. If you think you know what's coming, say because they ran the ball 7 times in a row, then you start cheating that way. It often pays to not be balanced, by the typically used definition.

The word that better describes what an offense should strive for is multiplicity.

Multiplicity means the act of doing things multiple ways. All good offenses, from the flex bone to the air raid, work by attacking in multiple ways. That's including, but not limited to, multiple depths of the field, lateral spacing, multiple players, multiple looks within the same formation, etcetera. Being multiple is about many more things than whether the scorekeeper marked the play a run or pass!

Being multiple also catches the hang up most people are referring to when (incorrectly) using the word balance; having the means to attack situationally. The two prime examples being a team without an effective passer that must come from behind and a team with a lot of receivers, a lack of a strong running game and tight ends to effectively attack goal to go situations.

 
No.

At this point I believe both the previous staff and this staff have put the best option at QB out on the field.

my concern is the disturbing trend that is continuing this year with Tommy's conference play

Con CMP% YPA TD INT

2015 35.6 3.97 1 1

2014 50 7.14 10 9

2013 49 6.22 6 7

Total 47.37% 6.36 17 17

Non-Con CMP% YPA TD INT

2015 58.9 8.38 11 5

2014 57.9 8.74 12 3

2013 62.1 11.45 3 1

Total 58.77% 8.82 26 9

Kind of feel bad for Tommy... would have loved to see this kid in Georgia Tech's offense.

 
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