Time to own up : Expectations

[zoogs]

I blame the first quarter too. I figured we were going to blow them out. We pick off Landry, drive something like 8 plays and 65 yards to the Sooner goalline, we're up 17-0...and Taylor throws a pick. Sooners march right down the field at us and score a touchdown. That whole sequence changed the game completely. By the time Taylor put anything together again (and it was mostly the RBs then) the game was tied at the end of the half.

The wheels fell off the wagon, but that's got to be on Taylor. You could also point to the defense for allowing consecutive drives of 4 plays, 80 yards and 12 plays, 91 yards, but I'll focus on the pick as the momentum changer in case people are too sensitive to any criticism of the defense. To their credit, the D did come back and give us a chance in the 2nd half. But they, and Taylor helped put us in that situation in the first place.

Imagine what could have been without that pick. 20-0, crushed Sooner morale, run away laughing to the Big Ten with a handy defeat of Oklahoma...alas.

 

[Husker_x]

I originally posted this in response to Ebyl in another thread, then realized what a complete hijack it was. Apologies to Hercules.

Because the time has come for many people that were sitting on the fence.

This is a very specific thing I've noticed in the before and after of this game. What people expected - what people got - and what they said afterwards. I have been critical of a lot of things on offense in this game, but fair is fair, and I'm going to pull up a thread from last week that asked: what will it take, out of the CCG, for the fence-sitters to swing one way or the other? No names attached.

If Green can go out there and get us 21-28 points, and we lose by a field goal, that's one thing. Watson's issue is he goes from brilliant to completely inept in these situations. We're talking zero touchdowns. Losing games that would have been won if we had scored a single touchdown. The beef with Watson isn't that he never calls a good game. It's that when he struggles, we lay an egg.

I guess I'd just call this 'rolling criteria.'

Things aren't matching up. People are saying, at least be able to put up a TD on the board, not expecting to score a lot, "If we score 21-28 and lose by a field goal, that's one thing" (20 is close, isn't it?), "If we score 17 and have a chance to win in the 4th, I'll be happy"...

So you're not happy. And I don't really blame you. There's plenty to be unhappy about. But it looks like the offense surpassed expectations for most. Unless the real expectations were "We have to put up 3 touchdowns and then some field goals and 350 yards on the Sooners with what we have on offense." This was a team loss, and people are looking at this as yet another game where the offense cost us. I strongly disagree with that sentiment.

zoogies, the problem is you're staring at plain numbers and not considering how things happen. My problem is when you jump to a 17-0 lead and you start turning the ball over left and right which is only one aspect of yet another offensive implosion––and we don't consider this surprising or out of the ordinary––it's time to face facts. Watson is an average coordinator at best and he's been riding this defense for two seasons. This is the second championship he's cost us. And speaking of our shot in the 4th. Why is it that we didn't have a field goal out of that last drive? Oh, right, because the offense went backwards thanks to dumb play calling, receivers who can't get open to save their lives, and a QB who had no business being out there because apparently nobody bothered to coach into him that you can't do things like throw to triple covered receivers in the end zone or take sacks when you're in or on the edge of FG position.

The defense gave up some points but they got the stops when we needed to. They got us a turnover in the red zone and the offense blew it. I'm sorry their not the Herculean force that they were last year, but I'll take a defense this good every year if I have even a semi-competent offense to go with it.

But go on. Everyone can keep digging up excuses. I'll throw mine in if you want, but I'm pretty tired of having to search for fading reasons that a coordinator is worth this much trouble.

 

[FLU]

I still don't believe that Nebraska is "back." Bo said it himself -- until we win some championships and trophies, then nothing has been accomplished. Progress has definitely been made over the past few years, but it's now time to take it to the next level. The excessive penalties and fumbleitis are issues that definitely must be addressed in the offseason. And I still think that they should pursue Gary Crowton to be OC, even though that's highly doubtful.

 

[zoogs]

zoogies, the problem is you're staring at plain numbers and not considering how things happen. My problem is when you jump to a 17-0 lead and you start turning the ball over left and right which is only one aspect of yet another offensive implosion––and we don't consider this surprising or out of the ordinary––it's time to face facts.

X, I don't know how you can blame Watson for either Taylor's :facepalm: interception, or Helu's fumble. I think Helu's fumble was a pure takeaway by Oklahoma. And Taylor's interception was pure Taylor taking an unacceptable risk. Trying to be a hero instead of taking the three points and being smart about it. Honestly the rest of the game was pretty much one Taylor implosion after another. That's how things happened, isn't it?

And speaking of our shot in the 4th. Why is it that we didn't have a field goal out of that last drive? Oh, right, because the offense went backwards thanks to dumb play calling, receivers who can't get open to save their lives, and a QB who had no business being out there because apparently nobody bothered to coach into him that you can't do things like throw to triple covered receivers in the end zone or take sacks when you're in or on the edge of FG position.

I pretty much have nothing but bad things to say about the playcalling on our last 2 drives in the 4th. Unexcusable that we didn't get a FG out of it. Stupid, took risks, could have sent out Henery. That one is on the offense. Guarantee you those things aren't what Taylor is coached to do, though. Bo decided Taylor was the best option, we went with that, and then he goes out there and does that. You either pull him/use Rex, which is what I thought he should have done, or you find a time machine and don't decide Taylor is the best option. Either way, this game could have gone into overtime and it's on the playcalling that we didn't get there. It blows my mind that either Watson or Bo would opt for a pass on 3rd and 8 from the OU 39. Not the least because of how Taylor played.

They got us a turnover in the red zone and the offense blew it.

We scored a touchdown that time if I'm not mistaken...but the O did blow it in crunch time.

I don't think Taylor is worth all this trouble, unless he develops a lot more this offseason, and in more ways than just on the field. That's where you and I see things differently, I suppose. In my mind, nothing short of having a different viable option than Taylor could have significantly helped our offensive performance in this game. Was Green that option? Thanks to Bo, we will now never know. And thanks to some unbelievable faith in Taylor at the end of the game, we'll never know if we could have won this one in OT.

 

[huskerscott]

Yes and fail to score a offensive TD. Ou's defense is not that great, good but not great. Hell Cincy scored 29 on them and A&M scored 33.

I will be happy to score 17 and have a chance to win in the 4th.

Ok im gonna own up... I believe I said the 2 above.

First one. OU defense wasnt that great and still isnt even after playing us. I believe we put up around 350 yards and 20 points even with Shawn watson calling the plays.... We contuniously gashed them witht the wildcat, plus Helu long run. Taylor had guys open, he just couldnt get the ball the them whether it was because of sack, a fumble, he didnt see them, or just didnt feel like throwing it.

Second one. Well uhhhh we did score 17 and had a chance to win it in the 4th. So I dont know what you want me own up to on this. The real problem was we got out to 17-0 nothing lead which even the biggest kool aids drinkers of them all didnt see coming. Taylor tried to be a hero and throw the ball into the very crowded endzone to make 24-0 which we couldve settled for 3 at the time, might have made the difference.

 

[FLU]

I will add this: IMO, Green is definitely NOT the answer to our troubles. I say let's wait and see what all of this Jamal Turner hype is about.

 

[Husker_x]

zoogies, the problem is you're staring at plain numbers and not considering how things happen. My problem is when you jump to a 17-0 lead and you start turning the ball over left and right which is only one aspect of yet another offensive implosion––and we don't consider this surprising or out of the ordinary––it's time to face facts.

X, I don't know how you can blame Watson for either Taylor's :facepalm: interception, or Helu's fumble. I think Helu's fumble was a pure takeaway by Oklahoma. And Taylor's interception was pure Taylor taking an unacceptable risk. Trying to be a hero instead of taking the three points and being smart about it.

And speaking of our shot in the 4th. Why is it that we didn't have a field goal out of that last drive? Oh, right, because the offense went backwards thanks to dumb play calling, receivers who can't get open to save their lives, and a QB who had no business being out there because apparently nobody bothered to coach into him that you can't do things like throw to triple covered receivers in the end zone or take sacks when you're in or on the edge of FG position.

I pretty much have nothing but bad things to say about the playcalling on our last 2 drives in the 4th. Unexcusable that we didn't get a FG out of it. Stupid, took risks, could have sent out Henery. That one is on the offense. Guarantee you those things aren't what Taylor is coached to do, though. Bo decided Taylor was the best option, we went with that, and then he goes out there and does that. You either pull him/use Rex, which is what I thought he should have done, or you find a time machine and don't decide Taylor is the best option. Either way, this game could have gone into overtime and it's on the playcalling that we didn't get there. It blows my mind that either Watson or Bo would opt for a pass on 3rd and 8 from the OU 39. Not the least because of how Taylor played.

They got us a turnover in the red zone and the offense blew it.

We scored a touchdown that time if I'm not mistaken...but the O did blow it in crunch time.

I don't think Taylor is worth all this trouble, unless he develops a lot more this offseason, and in more ways than just on the field. That's where you and I see things differently, I suppose. In my mind, nothing short of having a different viable option than Taylor could have significantly helped our offensive performance in this game. Was Green that option? Thanks to Bo, we will now never know. And thanks to some unbelievable faith in Taylor at the end of the game, we'll never know if we could have won this one in OT.

If memory serves it was after the turnover that Taylor threw the pick. Somebody help me out if I'm confusing drives.

I think Green was that option. And I think if Watson had screamed to have him put on the field, we could have held on to enough of that 17 point lead while mixing in the surprisingly effective wildcat package to be holding a trophy right now.

My question to you is, what is it about Watson in the coming season or two that makes you believe he's going to put any better product on the field? There's one thing to be said, the man does as little as possible in clutch moments to inspire any confidence whatsoever.

BTW, read McKewon's column from last night. It adds another dimesion or two to this that's interesting.

EDIT

I forgot to answer the first one. The absurd fumbling issue, the tragedy that it's become, is on the coordinator and I could give a sh#t what anyone wants to say about it. You're not the worst in the nation at something like that because you have great coaching. Fix it, or find someone who can.

 

[zoogs]

When we got the ball deep in OU's territory it was Burkhead's short touchdown drive.

I think there was another turnover in the game, but Taylor's interception was at the culmination of a 60+ yard drive.

Regarding Green: it's Bo's decision. No other way around it It's been said that Bo is Taylor's biggest (and maybe one of his only) fans on the team. If Green was that option and we blew it by going with Taylor, that is on Bo.

I guess I just have a respect for the work that Watson puts into the job, and his abilities as an innovative mind on offense, as well as his quality as a QBs coach. People will laugh, but when you don't have the pieces, innovation is handcuffed. Taylor did that to us this year but we still saw some pretty imaginative, exploitive gameplans. Yeah, we couldn't deal too well with injuries to Taylor and Zac, but then - what kind of team can deal with that sort of thing? We still played a Top 20 team close, and blew out CU with Cody. Although more than anything, it is the knowledge that we aren't going to get anyone better. Are there better OCs out there? I'm sure. OSU's guy, or Chip Kelly, or Mike Leach, but others, but that's not what the other option is here. We are going to run the offense that Bo wants, and if Watson leaves, it'll just be a less proven, less professionally respected guy like Beck calling all the shots with the same pieces to work with otherwise - and the loss of QB development that is both crucial to this offense and IMO, likely irreplaceable.

If we were about to bring in some hotshot and revamp the offensive staff completely I guess you could have a conversation there. But it's not an option on the table and it isn't going to be anytime soon. So you can run off Watson, run off Beck, run off the next guy...sooner or later some guy will come into some serious talent on the team and we'll do well for a few years, and he'll be loved as OC. Then we'll hit some down years with the players again, and he'll get run off like Greg Davis at UT.

About fumbling, I would put that mostly on position coaches or Taylor/Green, but I don't know. It's not like our QB/RBs coach or OC was bad when Dan Alexander (and Crouch and everyone else) had fumbilitis in 1999. It's just one of those years.

Post up a thread with the McKewon article, I like what Sam has to say usually.

 

[SECHusker]

Bo decided Taylor was the best option, we went with that, and then he goes out there and does that.

And the longer Wats his here, the more I question whether Bo is the right guy.

There has to many excuses for T-Mart and his play. "He's a freshman" and "He was hurt". He is also a QB of a brand name school and should be criticized when he does bad, just like he should be praised when does good.

And I agree with another post that stated we cannot expect a "herculian" defense every year, but the defense gave us two chances to win. Our O-chocked.

The part that pisses me off the most, is that if we had an offensive, I believe we jump Oregon and are playing for the National Championship. Oregon has beat two ranked foes, Stanford and ASU (ASU won't even be ranked when the polls come out), we would have beaten 4 (two in the top ten). This offense couldn't have come up with 16 extra points (one more point than we needed for each game we lost), to give us the win for each our losses.

 

[husker_hurdler]

Is thinking that a BCS Bowl team can score a TD in the second half.....unreasonable? I thought the defense did what they had to do.......keep the score as low as possible, held them to one 3rd down conversion, but they did give up 450 yards of total offense.

Maybe this is what I thought the offense is capable of, but I think it is the way that the second half played out. I am not a T-Mart/T-Magis/T-Mobile fan, but the kid needs to learn when to hurry/take a sack. I feel as though everytime he waited more than 2 seconds in the pocket or was flushed out, something bad happened. I would have loved to have seen Cody Green trot out to start the game and manage it.

 

[th3r0m]

I think that the expectations of many fans with regard to the Husker offense and/or Watson and the offensive coaching staff are so high as to be unable to be met - I feel the same is true of the defense as well. The offense is either too multiple or not multiple enough, it either passes too little or to much or on the wrong down or with the wrong quarterback; Watson goes away from the running game too soon or stays with it too long, etc, etc, etc. While I don't think Watson is the most brilliant OC to ever grace college football I think that expecting our offense to be some kind of powerhouse given the injuries, shifting play styles and the quarterback carousel that the last 3 years have been is ridiculous. I most definitely would have like to see touchdowns and W's in the games that have been posted as evidence of ineptitude but I don't think Watson leaving solves the fumbles, bumbles, penalties, miscues, drops, bad reads and blocking issues that the offense has experienced. On the defensive front, a few big plays against a player or the defense as a whole and it's like the Titantic is sinking all over again.

Simply put my expectations were too high. After last years torching of Arizona, I expected a potent offense, a stout defense, a North title, Big XII championship and possibly a trip to the National Championship - we had a lot of talent returning and started the season ranked high enough to really make a go of it. Upon finding out Lee had been dropped to 3rd string and the starter was a freshman, I was worried and ready to temper my expectations of the Big XII title and National Championship chances (I though the North was still easily in hand). But Martinez looked good, Helu and Burkhead looked good, David looked good - in fact the whole team looked pretty darn good and so I didn't temper anything. All was actually going pretty well, just a few missteps on offense, even after the Texas game until the injury bug really started hitting. Now, before the injuries there were some issues with execution, loss of focus, etc, but they were relatively easily overcome with big plays and better talent. Once some of the playmakers started going down and opponent talent levels moving up, the issues that were once a bit of a pain in the side became a full blown cancer - killing drives, taking points off the board and putting the defense in often insurmountable positions. But, ugly as it often was, the Huskers still won and my expectations, batter and bruised a bit, remained high, although after the loss to Texas, National Championship became just a dream. The loss to A&M was tough, but even then only the National Championship was foregone. In fact, until the second half of the game tonight, I still expected to win the Big XII championship - and I held out hope until the end of the 4th.

While I fully believe, and will until the day I die, that Husker fans are the best fans in all of college football - the fans, myself included, have become a fickle, spoiled, whiny, entitled bunch. The Osborne years, especially the 90's, were great, but they've somehow managed to convince us fans that we DESERVE championships, high rankings and no loss seasons just because we're the Huskers. How we measure success has become skewed such that anything less that complete domination of the North, Conference and FBS as a whole is failure. A 10-3 or 11-3 or 10-4 season, in the wake of some close, ugly and heartbreaking losses is obviously a bit tougher to swallow than an 13-0 season as conference champs, but it's kind of like playing the lottery and complaining about only winning $200K instead of the jackpot. Every week we're calling for coaches heads, throwing players under buses, calling out refs and conference officials, badmouthing sports writers... from the inside looking out and the outside looking in it's gotten pretty ugly folks.

Should there be accountability for the performance of the team? No question. And there is, thankfully by cooler, more level heads than those of the fans.

get off your high horse or get off the board. one or the other.

this is an internet message board. i dont see many professing themselves to be coaches or whatnot..

what i do see is fans...and as extension of your local watering hole the internet is the new playground for those to shell out their opinions. some are obviously longer than others...

No thanks I like the board and my high horse, it makes it easy to judge others for their opinions and decisions - it's especially nice because I get to hide behind the anonymity of internet to do it. I do apologize that my opinion was to long, however I didn't realize there was a character limit on Huskerboard. I'll try to make sure my opinions in the future are shorter and better reflect those of others on the board. In that vein, "FIRE Watson!!!! ...and let them eat cake!!!"

Have a nice day!

 

[Hercules]

I originally posted this in response to Ebyl in another thread, then realized what a complete hijack it was. Apologies to Hercules.

Because the time has come for many people that were sitting on the fence.

This is a very specific thing I've noticed in the before and after of this game. What people expected - what people got - and what they said afterwards. I have been critical of a lot of things on offense in this game, but fair is fair, and I'm going to pull up a thread from last week that asked: what will it take, out of the CCG, for the fence-sitters to swing one way or the other? No names attached.

It would depend on how the game turns out. If we have a ton of dropped passes like the UT game or Green just makes ridiculous decisions, I won't be too upset with Watson....

If Green can go out there and get us 21-28 points, and we lose by a field goal, that's one thing. Watson's issue is he goes from brilliant to completely inept in these situations. We're talking zero touchdowns. Losing games that would have been won if we had scored a single touchdown. The beef with Watson isn't that he never calls a good game. It's that when he struggles, we lay an egg.

I completely agree. However, I can tell you right now we don't need to worry about the grumblers giving Wats credit, this is going to be a LOW scoring game.

I wouldn't say it's his last chance unless there is a severe meltdown. However, this isn't a vintage OU defense. I'm not expecting more than 20 points from us given our injury problems, but we should be able to move the ball with some regularity.

Yes I dont expect us to score more than 20. But I wanna see us move the ball downfield chew some clock, stay ahead of the chains, maybe throw some play action to keep them honest. If we somehow get up by a couple of scores, I hope he goes for the knock out punch.

We have awesome RBs, pretty decent receivers, and our line doesn't exactly suck. Even without a great QB, it shouldn't be hard to get a few TDs.

Hey, I'm in the anti-Watson camp too, I'm just saying I don't expect us to score 48 again this week. If we get held to single digits again however...

Yes and fail to score a offensive TD. Ou's defense is not that great, good but not great. Hell Cincy scored 29 on them and A&M scored 33.

I will be happy to score 17 and have a chance to win in the 4th.

Green is a serviceable QB. I have no illusions that he could single-handedly take over the game and beat OU himself, but with two excellent RBs, a playmaker at tight end, and a couple of good possession receivers, there are no excuses to put up 9 points in FGs.

I've been a fence sitter for awhile with Watson, but if we can't put one TD on the board I'll be in with the crowd calling for his head. ... But you have to be able to at least put one drive together for a TD in 60 minutes with how many opportunities our defense gives you.

I guess I'd just call this 'rolling criteria.'

Things aren't matching up. People are saying, at least be able to put up a TD on the board, not expecting to score a lot, "If we score 21-28 and lose by a field goal, that's one thing" (20 is close, isn't it?), "If we score 17 and have a chance to win in the 4th, I'll be happy"...

So you're not happy. And I don't really blame you. There's plenty to be unhappy about. But it looks like the offense surpassed expectations for most. Unless the real expectations were "We have to put up 3 touchdowns and then some field goals and 350 yards on the Sooners with what we have on offense." This was a team loss, and people are looking at this as yet another game where the offense cost us. I strongly disagree with that sentiment.

Wait, why did you apologize to me?

You should've put names up, too. I think I said a few things in there, if I remember correctly.

I didn't expect us to do much in this game, I thought it would be a 17-14 type game. Thing is, I thought Cody Green was going to start, and I also thought our offensive line wouldn't be able to run the ball between the tackles very effectively. I thought we'd have to get a turnover or two and we'd have to capitalize on that when it happened, unlike we did in last year's CCG.

So, I'll admit, as far as points scored goes, they exceeded my expectations. But my expectations changed as the game rolled along.

Before the game, when I posted what you've quoted, I expected we'd start Cody Green. We started an 80-85% Taylor Martinez. I didn't think we'd be able to run the ball straight ahead on the Sooners. We were able to. I thought that we'd need to use the Wildcat in order to get the running game going. We did, and then we went away from it.

The point I'm trying to make is that expectations change as the circumstances do. On our very first play from scrimmage, we lined up and ran the ball between the tackles with Helu, and picked up 8 yards or so. At that INSTANT, my expectations changed, know what I mean? I went into the game thinking Oklahoma was the better overall team, given our injury situation, and that we'd need a conservative yet creative gameplan to pull off the win. But the way the game unfolded, it was clear that I was wrong. We were the better team, and we blew it. We didn't take advantage of their weakness between the tackles, we didn't use Burkhead in the Wildcat when we needed to in the 4th quarter, we continued to put Martinez in 3rd and long situations that he was struggling in all night.

I expect coaches to make the kind of in-game adjustments that would have won us the game last night. Those adjustments weren't that complex - they were just a matter of staying disciplined and not trying to do too much. Anybody think it's mere coincidence that Martinez's weakness is the same as Watson's?

As far as our defensive performance goes... If you had told me before the game that we'd score 20 points, I would have assumed we won. But, if you had told me that we'd score 20 points and turn the ball over 4 times, at least twice in our own territory, then I'd have done this: :facepalm:

 

[Hercules]

I blame the first quarter too. I figured we were going to blow them out. We pick off Landry, drive something like 8 plays and 65 yards to the Sooner goalline, we're up 17-0...and Taylor throws a pick. Sooners march right down the field at us and score a touchdown. That whole sequence changed the game completely. By the time Taylor put anything together again (and it was mostly the RBs then) the game was tied at the end of the half.

The wheels fell off the wagon, but that's got to be on Taylor. You could also point to the defense for allowing consecutive drives of 4 plays, 80 yards and 12 plays, 91 yards, but I'll focus on the pick as the momentum changer in case people are too sensitive to any criticism of the defense. To their credit, the D did come back and give us a chance in the 2nd half. But they, and Taylor helped put us in that situation in the first place.

Imagine what could have been without that pick. 20-0, crushed Sooner morale, run away laughing to the Big Ten with a handy defeat of Oklahoma...alas.

Taylor's pick happened when it was 17-7, and it resulted in a Sooner field goal that made it 17-10. Then Roy fumbled and it was 17-17. Taylor's pick was bad... But it was just one mistake out of many.

 

[zoogs]

You're right, Hercules. I realized at some point last night that I had the order of that wrong, but didn't remember where I first said it. Now I get to have some egg on my face

I suppose what changes there: instead of Taylor being responsible for the change in momentum, the D got things in motion with the huge allowed pass play that was a score. Which was still just one mistake, and I recognize that these things happen. I guess it was the combination of that, and Taylor's goal-line pick on the next drive, that really was a killer blow in terms of momentum. By the way, I think I said that the pick came on the back end of a fumble or something our D got, but I don't think that's right either. OU might have only had one turnover (the one that landed us deep in their territory and resulted in Burkhead's touchdown), or if they had another one I guess we didn't put it to use.

Fair enough on all of those turnovers. I do think a few of them are pure player error though. I didn't see Taylor's third quarter fumble, but his pick and the bad snap were not something you can really hang anyone's head on, in my more forgiving mood today anyways, even the players. It's a big game, everyone's excited, things like that will happen. Actually, I take that back. Taylor's interception was inexcusable. The bad snap was unfortunate. Roy's fumble was a great play by OU.

Thing is, I thought Cody Green was going to start, and I also thought our offensive line wouldn't be able to run the ball between the tackles very effectively. I thought we'd have to get a turnover or two and we'd have to capitalize on that when it happened, unlike we did in last year's CCG.

The funny thing is I wonder if the news that Taylor was starting should have lowered expectations further. It raised them for me, slightly, but obviously some feel a lot better about Green, and I agree with that, in retrospect.

 

[bshirt]

zoogies.....quite honestly, are you related to SW? Cousin? Brother-in-law?