Time to start implementing more option

husker_99 said:
hskerprid said:
With NU's problems with ball security coupled with Martinez's fondness for throwing out prayers err, no thanks. They need ALOT more practice with timing and spacing Martinez is not Frost.
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that's why Martinez wouldn't be running it. Carnes would be. Martinez's speed isn't as effective in the Big Ten like in the Big 12. He was getting caught from behind. Plus it also reduces passing attempts which would limit throwing out prayers. Our coaches need to teach a lot of things still cause we are simply making dumb mistakes. illegal formation, ball security those can be fixed.
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I can't tell if you are being serious here. Have you watched Carnes run the option? The few times he did it was terrible.

Then you are saying that the Big 10 is faster than the Big 12? That is ridiculous to say the least. I agree TM isn't Frazier or Crouch, but he is light years ahead of Carnes in virtually every category. He is the best we have, and is only a sophomore.

 
lo country said:
Martinez is not an option QB. Period. To successfully sell the option, the QB MUST step into the pursuit and make them commit to either QB or RB. Martinez is not built physically nor mentally to take the beating that would be required to establish a true option. An option QB gets hit almost every play. Look at how he runs in the open field, ie slows down and stands up to get hit, no cuts or moves, just straight ahead blazing speed. He is a threat, but not as an option QB.

I cannot remember the game that Carnes actually played and he stepped right into the LB and pitched. This is what makes the option. An attacking QB who forces the D to commit. Martinez, instead of going straight down the line or angled towards the D, he drifts back towards the RB, this allows the D to close and get a good enough angle that both guys get stuffed.

If you really want the option, it won't be run with Martinez. Maybe a play or two or three, but not enough to make DC's worry about it. Martinez is becoming better, no reason to try an make him something he is not.
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I think Martinez could be a very good option QB but it would take some coaching and practice that I'm sure he is not getting. He seemed to be a much more effective runner last year but it is apparent this season that he has been coached to slide and avoid contact. I believe that situation falls on the coaches and not on his ability. I think he is doing exactly what they are asking him to do. You may be correct that Carnes has the more natural skill set for the option but he played so little that I really can't comment on what he is capable of at this time. The much bigger issue than the quarterback are the road graders up front. If we get those guys up to snuff, we can run just about any offense we want. We need to get back to where we can gain 4 yards between the tackles even if the D expects it. Then we can legitimately discuss what type of running game we need to have and just how much option is appropriate. It doesn't much matter what we try to run if we're getting blown up in the backfield or hitting a wall at the line. I think we're improving, I just wish it were a faster process.

 
The Dude said:
I've seen Martinez do all the things we've declared he can't do in this thread. He just needs to do it in a consistant basis. I think that's more of an experience and reps issue than it is a matter of "welp, he just can't do it".
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I agree...I've seen Martinez commit and make some solid pitches, ie against Penn St. If you want to be an option team, it needs to be practiced constantly! I think I overheard one time that NEB currently spends 10 to 20 minutes after practice on the option....THAT'S IT! I believe Crouch spoke about how long they use to run the option in the practice and it would be for about an hour. A huge difference in practice time.

 
JJHusker1 said:
lo country said:
Martinez is not an option QB. Period. To successfully sell the option, the QB MUST step into the pursuit and make them commit to either QB or RB. Martinez is not built physically nor mentally to take the beating that would be required to establish a true option. An option QB gets hit almost every play. Look at how he runs in the open field, ie slows down and stands up to get hit, no cuts or moves, just straight ahead blazing speed. He is a threat, but not as an option QB.

I cannot remember the game that Carnes actually played and he stepped right into the LB and pitched. This is what makes the option. An attacking QB who forces the D to commit. Martinez, instead of going straight down the line or angled towards the D, he drifts back towards the RB, this allows the D to close and get a good enough angle that both guys get stuffed.

If you really want the option, it won't be run with Martinez. Maybe a play or two or three, but not enough to make DC's worry about it. Martinez is becoming better, no reason to try an make him something he is not.
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I think Martinez could be a very good option QB but it would take some coaching and practice that I'm sure he is not getting. He seemed to be a much more effective runner last year but it is apparent this season that he has been coached to slide and avoid contact. I believe that situation falls on the coaches and not on his ability. I think he is doing exactly what they are asking him to do. You may be correct that Carnes has the more natural skill set for the option but he played so little that I really can't comment on what he is capable of at this time. The much bigger issue than the quarterback are the road graders up front. If we get those guys up to snuff, we can run just about any offense we want. We need to get back to where we can gain 4 yards between the tackles even if the D expects it. Then we can legitimately discuss what type of running game we need to have and just how much option is appropriate. It doesn't much matter what we try to run if we're getting blown up in the backfield or hitting a wall at the line. I think we're improving, I just wish it were a faster process.
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Very true. Without improved O line play (on a consistent basis) it won't matter what type of O we run. A good O, regardless of style, begins with the hogs up front.

 
Just like I mentioned earlier Wiegert, Stai and the boys are out of eligibility. We need road graders that have good feet and can pull and get to the edge in a bad mood quickly. We don't have the line to accomplish half of what we want to do. Until that day arrives NU will not be a dominant offensive team.

 
walksalone said:
Lyons in the Sea of Red. said:
We ran the option, many times to the short side of the field.
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Yeah, which made me wonder what the hell folks on the offensive side of the ball were thinking. You run the option to the short side, you're making it easier for the defense to defend it...
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TO was often criticized for running short side too often. The standard reason given was that there were fewer defenders to have to block. That makes a fair amount of sense if you're able to get more blockers leading the play ahead of the QB/RB. The strategy paid off a lot more often in TO's day than it has recently. Which leads us right back to the basic problem with our offense. We are not getting what we need from our O line. They do not get pulled and out in front of the play. Short side or wide side doesn't matter if all you got out there is your QB and 1 pitch man against 4-5 defenders.

 
lo country said:
Martinez is not an option QB. Period. To successfully sell the option, the QB MUST step into the pursuit and make them commit to either QB or RB. Martinez is not built physically nor mentally to take the beating that would be required to establish a true option. An option QB gets hit almost every play. Look at how he runs in the open field, ie slows down and stands up to get hit, no cuts or moves, just straight ahead blazing speed. He is a threat, but not as an option QB.

I cannot remember the game that Carnes actually played and he stepped right into the LB and pitched. This is what makes the option. An attacking QB who forces the D to commit. Martinez, instead of going straight down the line or angled towards the D, he drifts back towards the RB, this allows the D to close and get a good enough angle that both guys get stuffed.

If you really want the option, it won't be run with Martinez. Maybe a play or two or three, but not enough to make DC's worry about it. Martinez is becoming better, no reason to try an make him something he is not.
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^^^^ THIS +10000

 
I think folks are forgetting how much Frost sucked at the option early-on, he was definitely a work in progress. So is Martinez, this was his first year running a more traditional option, it will take some time, especially since we aren't going to devote a ton of practice-time to it.

 
Hammerhead said:
We ran plenty of option this season, and it was rarely effective. We don't have the personnel to consistently run it effectively.
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I'd say we ran anything but plenty of option. We either ran way too much or not nearly enough. The option, imo, is not a sprinkle it in type of deal. You either do it, practice it, refine it, and perfect it, or you don't waste your time with it. Spacing, timing, blocking angles, reading defenses, and adjusting mid-play is absolutely vital to a successful option attack.

I'd love to see us run a lot more option, while scrapping a lot of all the other stuff in are arsenal. We pack far too many tools to be highly efficient and effective on offense. If we boiled our offense down to a few core things then branched out from there, I think our offense could be lethal with our talent.

 
lo country said:
Martinez is not an option QB. Period. To successfully sell the option, the QB MUST step into the pursuit and make them commit to either QB or RB. Martinez is not built physically nor mentally to take the beating that would be required to establish a true option. An option QB gets hit almost every play. Look at how he runs in the open field, ie slows down and stands up to get hit, no cuts or moves, just straight ahead blazing speed. He is a threat, but not as an option QB.

I cannot remember the game that Carnes actually played and he stepped right into the LB and pitched. This is what makes the option. An attacking QB who forces the D to commit. Martinez, instead of going straight down the line or angled towards the D, he drifts back towards the RB, this allows the D to close and get a good enough angle that both guys get stuffed.

If you really want the option, it won't be run with Martinez. Maybe a play or two or three, but not enough to make DC's worry about it. Martinez is becoming better, no reason to try an make him something he is not.
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I think we are totally doing that though. We are constantly putting him in position to do things that he is "not". Not only that, but we do a huge variety of things, that don't really fit him, imo.

I agree that he is not an option QB, but I think he could be if we committed to it. He needs to learn to take a hit and many other things, but he is in that same situation with most typical QB skills. I'd rather see the coaches focus on his option game and put more pressure on our running game than focus on his option / drop back / zone read / read progression / blitz recognition ...etc.

 
Martinez (and the whole team for that matter) don't run the option "downhill." Nearly every time we ran the option the play went backwards. Watch when we ran the option in the 90's and the line surge allowed the qb to run" downhill before ever having to make a decision to pitch or keep.

 
Saying we need to run the option more is like saying we need to run the ball more or we need to pass more. It's easy to say we need to do something and why we need to do it, but if we can't do it then we don't really get anywhere. Similar to arguments often had on this board - some people believe we need to be balanced, others want pass heavy attacks and others think we should rely more on the run. Like I said above, I'd love to see us run the option more but not if the execution level isn't there.

Furthermore, I think teams that are really good at the option have to practice it every day and make it a keystone of the offense. I don't think it's very easy to just make it part of your offense. If you only run it every once in awhile that's one thing, but if you run it often then teams are looking for it, which means you have to run it better than average. And I'm not saying we can't run it well, but that we just have to if we want it to be part of our offense. Because if our option plays are averaging only a few yards (which it seems like it did this year) and we could get those same yards with a simple Burkhead play, then why not just run it with Burkhead? It should only be used if it's going to be something different that works.

 
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I'd like to see Beck sprinkle in some more of those awesome mad scientist option plays he's got hiding in his playbook. That two read play we ran for a touchdown, that roll out rushing/screen pass option play we ran with Turner, and that play where they brought Turner in motion towards the center of the field, then snapped the ball and ran it back in the direction he'd just come from with him as the pitch man. That is some great stuff IMO, and I'd like to see us spring more of those to see if we can catch defenses napping.

 
Hammerhead said:
We ran plenty of option this season, and it was rarely effective. We don't have the personnel to consistently run it effectively.
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Exactly. Also, Beck being a wr/passing game coordinator at Kansas has me feeling like this offense really wants to be able to pass the ball more often and more effectively. We tried many times to force the passing game down Martinez's throat, Wisconsin would be a game that really stands out. Taylor did improve throughout the season, and I think the direction of this offense will progress to a far more balanced system as the QB progresses. Just my opinion but I think we may move away from the option game as we develop a more balanced Quarterback.

 
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