Tommy's picks-Are they as bad as they look?

^ To some extent, you're probably right. I really try not to talk down on TA. I think he could be a very good player for us. He's already showed some very good things running the ball. He just has a ways to go throwing.

What I find interesting is that he is doing a lot of things that the Martinez bashers like to bring up about Taylor: He shows some really good running ability on one play, then the next he will almost come to a complete stop as the defender goes to tackle him. He has made several throws either into double coverage for a pick or thrown it right to the defender. Yes, I realize one is a senior and the other is a freshman. But I'm still into trying to win as many games as we can this year. You have to compare what each of them is doing THIS YEAR to see who gives us the best chance to win these next four games.

 
In fairness, Senior Ron Kellogg's interception was a pretty bad read, too.

Folks wanted to compare Tommy Armstrong with Tommie Frazier, but he looks more like Scott Frost to me. Runs tall, strong and unafraid. Works the seam, Not necessarily fast and shifty, just smooth and efficient. Already has a good nose for the end zone. Sells the option like a pro. Already a better passer than Frost.

Not happy about the interceptions, and can't even blame the last one on Abdullah's missed block, but there's a lot to like about Armstrong.

And I hope he doesn't worry about the nervous nellie's and continues to throw the ball. There are some beautiful completions to go along with those misreads.

When Abdullah or Cross fumble the ball away at a horrible time, or get stuffed for no gain, I never hear the folks in here scream "why are we running the ball!!"

I think Beck is really clear on what Armstrong brings and has made the right adjustments. I'd like to see Beck ride a healthy Abdullah a bit longer. I'd also like to see us not have to come from behind in the fourth quarter. But this is an offense worth watching.

 
Mr. Accountability said:
When your run game is working from the get go, you continue to pound it until they start to stop it. I dont care what the circumstances are or what looks youre getting. It's stupid to get cute on a whim. If/When they finally do begin to stop when it was working well to begin with, it'd be obvious it's due to anticipation and crowding the line. THAT'S when you bring in the play action and take some shots to get 'em to back off. You dont go away from the run when it's working to try to keep 'em off. You wait until they make the changes to corral it. This is basic football and has been since the beginning of time. It's one thing about Beck I just dont understand why we find the need to just randomly go all Peyton Manning on somebodies a$$. Basic football. Do it till they stop it. Then do something else to counter.
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You know, like how other teams keep running on us cause we can't stop it. Amirite
 
I just hope Tommy knows what's about to come his way in regards to the option. Those fake pitch moves look nice now, but Michigan and MSU won't bite on that stuff. They will have a guy designated to come up and whack the QB regardless of what he does. The option looks fine now, but we need to be attacking the edge. Right now we are reacting and it takes awhile to develop. We're going to pay for that. Just an observation.

 
RedRedJarvisRedwhine said:
Mr. Accountability said:
When your run game is working from the get go, you continue to pound it until they start to stop it. I dont care what the circumstances are or what looks youre getting. It's stupid to get cute on a whim. If/When they finally do begin to stop when it was working well to begin with, it'd be obvious it's due to anticipation and crowding the line. THAT'S when you bring in the play action and take some shots to get 'em to back off. You dont go away from the run when it's working to try to keep 'em off. You wait until they make the changes to corral it. This is basic football and has been since the beginning of time. It's one thing about Beck I just dont understand why we find the need to just randomly go all Peyton Manning on somebodies a$$. Basic football. Do it till they stop it. Then do something else to counter.
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You know, like how other teams keep running on us cause we can't stop it. Amirite
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There's a point in every game -- usually the second quarter -- where the D does shut down Nebraska's running game. I think Abdullah was averaging less than 3 yards a carry in the first half against Northwestern. Some of those three and outs are on running sequences. When we mix things up, it opens the door for the running game, which can and does reestablish itself in the second half. When we're ahead and want to pound the ball and bleed the clock, we're predictible and not yet good enough to just ram it down their throat. When we're behind, we probably abandon the run a little to soon. Except when Martinez (and now Kellogg) pass us to exciting comeback victories like they have the past two seasons.

We're still a run first team. We typically run twice as often as we pass. When the running game is clicking we generally ride it out. That's why we win when we rush for 200 yards. It means our first choice is working. But from game to game and quarter to quarter, there are times when it doesn't work and there is nothing that gets an OC yelled at louder than three rushing plays for 8 yards and a punt when the team is behind. I honestly don't see where Tim Beck gets too cute, unless the definition of "cute" is a forward pass.

 
I think what they mean by cute is throwing deep on two consecutive first down plays. We were able to overcome the first one but the second long ball stalled a potential scoring drive.

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
RedRedJarvisRedwhine said:
Mr. Accountability said:
When your run game is working from the get go, you continue to pound it until they start to stop it. I dont care what the circumstances are or what looks youre getting. It's stupid to get cute on a whim. If/When they finally do begin to stop when it was working well to begin with, it'd be obvious it's due to anticipation and crowding the line. THAT'S when you bring in the play action and take some shots to get 'em to back off. You dont go away from the run when it's working to try to keep 'em off. You wait until they make the changes to corral it. This is basic football and has been since the beginning of time. It's one thing about Beck I just dont understand why we find the need to just randomly go all Peyton Manning on somebodies a$$. Basic football. Do it till they stop it. Then do something else to counter.
Click to expand...
You know, like how other teams keep running on us cause we can't stop it. Amirite
Click to expand...
There's a point in every game -- usually the second quarter -- where the D does shut down Nebraska's running game. I think Abdullah was averaging less than 3 yards a carry in the first half against Northwestern. Some of those three and outs are on running sequences. When we mix things up, it opens the door for the running game, which can and does reestablish itself in the second half. When we're ahead and want to pound the ball and bleed the clock, we're predictible and not yet good enough to just ram it down their throat. When we're behind, we probably abandon the run a little to soon. Except when Martinez (and now Kellogg) pass us to exciting comeback victories like they have the past two seasons.

We're still a run first team. We typically run twice as often as we pass. When the running game is clicking we generally ride it out. That's why we win when we rush for 200 yards. It means our first choice is working. But from game to game and quarter to quarter, there are times when it doesn't work and there is nothing that gets an OC yelled at louder than three rushing plays for 8 yards and a punt when the team is behind. I honestly don't see where Tim Beck gets too cute, unless the definition of "cute" is a forward pass.
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Well first we need to fix our leaky defense so Beck can be stubborn with the run game. Not to get into the TO did it this way game but he was stubborn as hell with the commitment to running the ball. If we were averaging 3 ypc in the first quarter, he didn't panic. It helps to have a defense to lean on but too often Beck tries too hard to be the smartest guy in the room when sometimes predictable and consistent will do.
 
I know this past week's game was a close call but until his INT's actually cost us a game, I can live with his learning curve because he brings the option element back to the game on offense and he does it very well.

 
StPaulHusker said:
I know this past week's game was a close call but until his INT's actually cost us a game, I can live with his learning curve because he brings the option element back to the game on offense and he does it very well.
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Is it specifically the Option, or is it because he runs the ball well and looks good doing it? I mean, if he ran the Zone Read to perfection, would that be the same, or do you really like the Option?

 
BRV920 said:
I think what they mean by cute is throwing deep on two consecutive first down plays. We were able to overcome the first one but the second long ball stalled a potential scoring drive.
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I guess what I mean is that it's not too cute when that pass is completed. It's a big chunk of yardage and it loosens up the defense so you can go back to Abdullah.

Maybe I didn't expect Beck to go deep twice when the first pass didn't work. But maybe the defense didn't expect it, either. They may have seen something exploitable out there. We have running plays for little or no gain on first down, too, yet for some reason they don't lead to questioning the OC.

Halfback passes, end arounds, double reverses, multiple sets, quick snaps, wildcat formations and Martinez pitching to Burkhead who pitches to Abdullah would be considered more cute than a deep pass on first down. On most teams, a quarterback option to a trailing running back is considered too cute, cause it's always a fumble waiting to happen.

We still have the #15 rushing offense in the country. Most of the top rushing teams actually pass the ball more often than we do.

 
Of course the picks are due to bad reads. It's not like his throws have just been picked off because they are off target.

Regardless the reason, I still love the way he approaches the game. He's a natural tough leader, and you can tell that he just wants to succeed. Like after his 2nd pick, the camera showed him on the sideline and he screamed the F-bomb. That's something I love to see because you can tell that he isn't going to settle for that performance. He will continue to learn and grow into the position.

 
BRV920 said:
I think what they mean by cute is throwing deep on two consecutive first down plays. We were able to overcome the first one but the second long ball stalled a potential scoring drive.
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I actually like Tommy throwing bombs down the field, as a defender if your guy goes deep then that sticks in your mind and you maybe start to mentally focus on not getting beat deep so you loosen up coverage. Of course it depends whether its man or zone but I think the play calling has a psychological effect to some extent. But I agree that it puts Tommy in an unfair place being 3rd and long, and yes he could check down which is something I think he needs to do more of or just tuck it and run.

 
knapplc said:
StPaulHusker said:
I know this past week's game was a close call but until his INT's actually cost us a game, I can live with his learning curve because he brings the option element back to the game on offense and he does it very well.
Click to expand...
Is it specifically the Option, or is it because he runs the ball well and looks good doing it? I mean, if he ran the Zone Read to perfection, would that be the same, or do you really like the Option?
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He runs the option well. I suppose if the play calls were more zone read and he ran those well, I would be okay with that too. I suspect that if he ran the zone read as well as Martinez, there would be more of those plays called for him.

But I do like the option as an offense. It's not as pretty as the spread but it was pretty cool watching the O line back in the day imposing its will on teams and running them over.

 
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