Tradition, UM vs. NU

S

StuckinChicago

Starter
This is taken from CO HUSKER over on the bbs at huskerpedia.

In the ESPN poll linked to in another thread, a question was asked about which school as the better football tradition. Michigan currently leads 58% to 42%. This made me wonder why anyone would pick Michigan other than blind allegiance. So, I did a little research...

All time:

Michigan: 848-280-36 (first year 1878)

Nebraska: 801-321-42 (first year 1890)

Average wins/season:

Michigan: 6.67

Nebraska: 6.96

Records since 1995:

Michigan: 102-33

Nebraska: 107-31

Consecutive Bowl Streak:

Michigan: 30

Nebraska: 35

Bowl Games:

Michigan: 36

Nebraska: 42

Bowl Game Records:

Michigan: 18-18-0

Nebraska: 21-21-0

Conference Championships since 1950:

Michigan: 23

Nebraska: 22

Overall National Championships:

Michigan: 11*

Nebraska: 5

*Michigan has never won an outright National Championship. Every one has been a split title.

National Champions since 1950:

Michigan: 1

Nebraska: 5

Heisman Trophy Winners since 1950:

Michigan: 2

Nebraska: 3

Coach with best winning percentage:

Michigan: Bo Schembechler: .775

Nebraska: Tom Osborne: .811

Top 20 rankings of coaches with Best Winning Percentages:

#10 NEBRASKA: Tom Osborne: .811

#11 NEBRASKA: Bob Devaney: .806

#18 MICHIGAN: Bo Schembechler: .775

Michigan has a great tradition. However, since the leather helmet went the way of the dinosaurs, and since the invention of the face mask....I find it difficult to support any conclusion that shows Michigan with a better football tradition. Any such conclusion would have to be supported by the facts, and the facts are simply NOT THERE! Winning 8 of your 11 national championships BEFORE 1934 hardly impresses me much. Army has won 2 since then!

The records, the national championships, the sellout streak, the sea of red....all amount to the fact that Nebraska is in the elite when it comes to football traditions.

Wow. I never knew that they won 8 of their title before there really was an ap pole and a title??? And they have never won an undisputed title. I understood that there was quite a media bias against the great plains state due to their lack of population, but this is rediculus. Why doesnt the media put US at the same level as Michigan??? This is rediculus. Good job on you three title, all disputed, since 1934 :dumdum , all of which were split.

 
Sooo, tradition prior to 1934 doesn't count? I think its safe to say that Michigan has consistatntly been one of football's best for more than 100 years! There's no doubt Nebraska was amazing in the 1990's, but Michigan hasn't had the ups and downs on the same level of Nebraska.

They were to 9 straight New Years day bowls up to this year, has Nebraska ever done that?? They currently have the logest running bowl streak, and won't have a collapse as bad as Nebraska's, meaning they will surpase your 35 very soon. Lead the nation in attendence every year, selling out nearly 112,000 every game. The most well known fight song and helmets. THey play in the best rivalry (OSU). They have the all time best winning percentage.

I suppose you can console yourself and say that the AP is somehow core to football tradition, but I don't think that makes any sense. So in 50 years, will people discredit Nebraska's records because their titles came under the AP and not some future poll?

Michigan pioneered the sport. Thye went to South Bend and TAUGHT Notre Dame the game.

So if you want to say Nebraska has the best tradition since 1950, 1960, or some other year, you can debate it. But Michigan is tops all time. FACT. It's just too bad they couldn't have played in 1997. But it's a pretty good bet that the Wolverines will destroy Nebraska later this month. I suppose you will find a way to justify it though.

 
I say give Michigan the credit for having a strong football program for many years. They are always up for the Big 10 title every year, but Nebraska has gotten over the hump more than Michigan since people stopped riding horses to work. Very similar stats, very strong programs. Our program is on an upward swing, theirs is possibly in limbo. With the recruiting classes that MU pulls every year, there is no reason why they should finish 7-5.

 
They were to 9 straight New Years day bowls up to this year, has Nebraska ever done that??
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Yes they have. Nebraska went to 15 straight from 1981-1995. The Orange Bowl in 1996 was on December 31st, otherwise it would have been 17.

They currently have the logest running bowl streak, and won't have a collapse as bad as Nebraska's, meaning they will surpase your 35 very soon.
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Don't bet on it. If 7-4 is the best Michigan can do with the last 5 recruiting classes rated in the top 10 almost every year, then it may not be as far off as you would think.

Lead the nation in attendence every year, selling out nearly 112,000 every game.
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Well of course you lead the nation in attendance, you have the largest stadium. Your state population is a lot larger than Nebraska's as well. Nebraska has 1.5 million and has sold out for 44 years straight. Michigan has over 6 times that and hasn't got the sell out streak that NU does.

The most well known fight song and helmets. THey play in the best rivalry (OSU).
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Completely subjective. I would say Notre Dame has the most well known helmet(is that even something to really brag about?). Rivalry comment also very subjective.

They have the all time best winning percentage.
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NU is top 5 despite 20 years of bad football between the 40's and 60's.

I suppose you can console yourself and say that the AP is somehow core to football tradition, but I don't think that makes any sense. So in 50 years, will people discredit Nebraska's records because their titles came under the AP and not some future poll?
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I have to assume you are talking about the 1997 championship. You and the rest of you maize and blue's know damn well that that Husker team would have annihalated you. NU beat #3 Tennessee led by #1 draft pick and future Hall of Famer Peyton Manning 45-17 in the Orange Bowl. Michigan squeaked past Washington State in the Rose Bowl.

But it's a pretty good bet that the Wolverines will destroy Nebraska later this month.
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How much you wanna bet?

I suppose you will find a way to justify it though.
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Justify kicking some Wolverine a$$? No need to, we'll just let the scoreboard do the talking. :)

 
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Sooo, tradition prior to 1934 doesn't count? I think its safe to say that Michigan has consistatntly been one of football's best for more than 100 years! There's no doubt Nebraska was amazing in the 1990's, but Michigan hasn't had the ups and downs on the same level of Nebraska.
They were to 9 straight New Years day bowls up to this year, has Nebraska ever done that?? They currently have the logest running bowl streak, and won't have a collapse as bad as Nebraska's, meaning they will surpase your 35 very soon. Lead the nation in attendence every year, selling out nearly 112,000 every game. The most well known fight song and helmets. THey play in the best rivalry (OSU). They have the all time best winning percentage.

I suppose you can console yourself and say that the AP is somehow core to football tradition, but I don't think that makes any sense. So in 50 years, will people discredit Nebraska's records because their titles came under the AP and not some future poll?

Michigan pioneered the sport. Thye went to South Bend and TAUGHT Notre Dame the game.

So if you want to say Nebraska has the best tradition since 1950, 1960, or some other year, you can debate it. But Michigan is tops all time. FACT. It's just too bad they couldn't have played in 1997. But it's a pretty good bet that the Wolverines will destroy Nebraska later this month. I suppose you will find a way to justify it though.
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yeah traditon of late counts more than it did 70 years ago. Face it michigan has only one one national title in the last 55 years. and they shared it with a team that would have beat them. considering michigan beat a ryan leaf led wash st. barely and nebraska killed a peyton manning and jamal lewis led tenneessee team. I have always thought that michgan gets the top tradition tag way to easy considering there lack of a national title in the last 50 years compared to nebraska, oklahoma, miami, alabama, penn st, and usc.

 
Sooo, tradition prior to 1934 doesn't count? I think its safe to say that Michigan has consistatntly been one of football's best for more than 100 years! There's no doubt Nebraska was amazing in the 1990's, but Michigan hasn't had the ups and downs on the same level of Nebraska.
They were to 9 straight New Years day bowls up to this year, has Nebraska ever done that?? They currently have the logest running bowl streak, and won't have a collapse as bad as Nebraska's, meaning they will surpase your 35 very soon. Lead the nation in attendence every year, selling out nearly 112,000 every game. The most well known fight song and helmets. THey play in the best rivalry (OSU). They have the all time best winning percentage.

I suppose you can console yourself and say that the AP is somehow core to football tradition, but I don't think that makes any sense. So in 50 years, will people discredit Nebraska's records because their titles came under the AP and not some future poll?

Michigan pioneered the sport. Thye went to South Bend and TAUGHT Notre Dame the game.

So if you want to say Nebraska has the best tradition since 1950, 1960, or some other year, you can debate it. But Michigan is tops all time. FACT. It's just too bad they couldn't have played in 1997. But it's a pretty good bet that the Wolverines will destroy Nebraska later this month. I suppose you will find a way to justify it though.
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How many lock ins does the big 10 have on news years day compared to the Big 12. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Anywhere Anytime

 
First of all, Notre Dame and Army, yes Army have more tradition than Michigan. Actually, Harvard and Yale, if you want to count the ENTIRE history of college football, as you have said have more tradition as well. I wont go so far as to say that more people around the country associate Nebraska with college football tradition than Michigan, but how much of that is due to media bias. Frankly, I think Oklahoma is pretty damn close to stripping you as far as tradition, and according to popular knowledge, you would think that USC has won the last thirteen national titles and invented the game.

 
i have a really nice publication from street and smith's- the 50 greatest college football programs of all time. this is their rankings

1. notre dame

2. usc

3. oklahoma

4. alabama

5. nebraska

6. michigan

7. yale

8. ohio state

9. texas

10. princeton

the criteria was... # nat champs, # of undefeated seasons, # of major bowl wins, # of major bowl appearances, # of conference champs, winning percentage, grad rate, # of concensus all-americans, # of heisman winners, # of no 1 overall draft picks, # of ncaa infractions, and mascot ferocity (????)

seems like this is suited for more toward the past 5 decades or so, but it was just something interesting i picked up a few months ago...

and btw... it looks like the big red are tops in 6 of the 12 categories and 3 categories were tied.

 
Sooo, tradition prior to 1934 doesn't count? I think its safe to say that Michigan has consistatntly been one of football's best for more than 100 years! There's no doubt Nebraska was amazing in the 1990's, but Michigan hasn't had the ups and downs on the same level of Nebraska.
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I would say that while the traditions count, they are not the same thing. There was no national poll, media coverage of college football wasnt the same. NU had many undefeated seasons during that time period, Im wondering why NU was never given a MNC??? Heck, its barely the same sport as it was way back then.

I guess you could say that its like comparing a 1929 Model T dragster to a brand new high-fueley dragster. At first glance, they seem similar because they served the same function, but way, way too much of a difference to be considered on the same level.

 
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Sooo, tradition prior to 1934 doesn't count? I think its safe to say that Michigan has consistatntly been one of football's best for more than 100 years! There's no doubt Nebraska was amazing in the 1990's, but Michigan hasn't had the ups and downs on the same level of Nebraska.
They were to 9 straight New Years day bowls up to this year, has Nebraska ever done that?? They currently have the logest running bowl streak, and won't have a collapse as bad as Nebraska's, meaning they will surpase your 35 very soon. Lead the nation in attendence every year, selling out nearly 112,000 every game. The most well known fight song and helmets. THey play in the best rivalry (OSU). They have the all time best winning percentage.

I suppose you can console yourself and say that the AP is somehow core to football tradition, but I don't think that makes any sense. So in 50 years, will people discredit Nebraska's records because their titles came under the AP and not some future poll?

Michigan pioneered the sport. Thye went to South Bend and TAUGHT Notre Dame the game.

So if you want to say Nebraska has the best tradition since 1950, 1960, or some other year, you can debate it. But Michigan is tops all time. FACT.  It's just too bad they couldn't have played in 1997. But it's a pretty good bet that the Wolverines will destroy Nebraska later this month. I suppose you will find a way to justify it though.
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Look how many publications there are that handed out their own National championship awards to teams since College football was introduced

Current publications recognizing National Champs

1st-N-Goal (1869-20XX)

ARGH Power Ratings (1966-20XX)

Associated Press (1934, 1936-20XX) (WIDELY RECOGNIZED)

Billingsley Report (1869-20XX)

Bowl Championship Series (1998-20XX) (CURRENT SELECTOR OF NATIONAL CHAMP)

CBS SportsLine (1998-20XX)

Clyde Berryman (1940-20XX)

Colley Rankings (1998-20XX)

Congrove Computer Rankings (1993-20XX)

Darryl W. Perry (1997-20XX)

David Wilson (1869-20XX)

DKC Ratings (1981-20XX)

Dunkel System (1929-20XX)

Football Writers Association of America (1954-20XX)

Foundation for the Analysis of Competitions and Tournaments (FACT) (1968-20XX)

GBE College Football Ratings (2003-20XX)

Gupta Power Ratings (1970-20XX)

Harry DeVold (1939-20XX)

James Howell (1869-20XX)

Jeff Self (1950-20XX)

Massey Ratings (1930-20XX)

Matthews Grid Ratings (1966-20XX)

National Football Foundation and Hall of Fame (1959-1990, 1995-20XX)

New York Times (1979-20XX)

Nutshell Sports Football Ratings (1869-20XX)

Peter Wolfe (1992-20XX)

Sagarin Ratings (1919-20XX)

Seattle Times (1997-20XX)

Soren Sorensen (1869-20XX)

Steve Eck (1980-20XX)

SW!-TECH Computer Ratings (1982-20XX)

The Fleming System (1913-20XX)

The Sporting News (1975-20XX)

USA Today / ESPN (1997-20XX)

Previous publications giving out National Titles thru the years:

Alderson System (1994-1998)

Alexander Weyand (1876-1925)

Allen Smith (1950-1954)

Angelo Louisa (1900-1995)

Bernie McCarty (1901-1950)

Biff Jones (1928)

Bill Libby (1900-1974)

Boand System (1919-1960)

Bob Kirlin (1912-2000)

Bob Royce (1869-1942)

Casper Whitney (1899-1912)

Century Football Index (1900-2000)

Charles Patterson (1899-1903)

Cliff Morgan (1869-1987)

College and Pro Football Newsweekly (1978-1979)

College Football Researchers Association (1916-1992)

College Football USA (1876-1970)

Dickinson System (1924-1940)

Earl Jessen (1875-1974)

Edward Litkenhous (1934-1984)

Erskine Trophy (1929)

Esso Gas (1920-1936)

Football by the Numbers (1984-1992)

Football News (1958-2002)

Frank Wood (1932-1935)

Fuqua Rating System (1869-1908)

GACFF.com Computer Rankings (1997-2002)

George Trevor (1876-1946)

Harry Frye (1869-2000)

Heffelinger Football Facts (1951-1953)

Helms Athletic Foundation (1883-1982)

Houlgate System (1885-1949)

Howard Jones Trophy (1962-1969)

Illustrated Football Annual (1940-1948)

International News Service (1952-1957)

James Whalen (1886-1995)

Jim Koger (1900-1969)

Loren Maxwell (1869-2002)

Lawrence Baker (1939-1944)

Lawrence Perry (1925)

Mel Smith (1869-1990)

Montgomery Full Season Championship (1936-1982)

National Championship Foundation (1869-2001)

New York Daily News (1978-1995)

New York Post (1987-1995)

New York Sun (1901-1902)

Newsweek Magazine (1936)

Parke Davis (1869-1933)

Patrick Premo (1869-2000)

Poling System (1924-1984)

Ray Bryne (1925-1949)

Scripps-Howard (1987-1990)

Sparks Achievement Ratings (1980-2001)

Sports Illustrated (1981-1992)

The College Football Statistics Quarterly (1988-1993)

The National Newspaper (1990)

Thomas Jech (1983-1984)

Time Magazine (1958-1959)

Toledo Cup (1934)

United Press (1935, 1950-1957)

United Press International (1958-1995)

United Press International/National Football Foundation (1991-1992)

USA Today/Cable News Network (1982-1996)

USA Today/National Football Foundation (1993-1994)

Walter Camp (1899-1903)

Washington Touchdown Club (1955-1994)

What's What (1937-1941)

Williamson System (1931-1963)

World Almanac (1900-1914)

Just because for example Walter Camp awarded Michigan a national title while the World Almanc award another team a national title that same year and the Washington Touchdown club awarded a third team that year a national title doesn't make it a national title. Each one of those previous publications had their own agenda of who they wanted to promote as their national Champs. That's why College football's recognized champs began in 1936 when the AP (the most widely used even to this day) first awarded it's national championship title that year. Every team from that point is considered legit. Every team prior to that isn't.

 
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I find it difficult to support any conclusion that shows Michigan with a better football tradition.
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dedhoarse Of course you do, you are a homer. They might think the same way about nu. :dumdum

From a wolverine supporter on a U of M forum:

The University of Michigan

Winningest school in college football history (849 wins).

.745 all-time winning percentage (highest in college football).

Highest all-time strength of schedule rating in college football.

11 National Championships: (1901, 1902, 1903, 1904, 1918, 1923, 1932, 1933, 1947, 1948, 1997)

42 conference championships (more than any school in any single conference).

111 winning seasons (most in college football).

25 undefeated seasons (more than any other Division 1-A school).

1 of only 3 schools with a winning record vs. every Division 1-A conference including independents.

56 game unbeaten streak (2nd longest in college football history).

38 straight years without a losing season (longest on-going streak in the nation).

31 straight bowl appearances (longest on-going streak in the nation).

Longest on-going streak in the nation finishing ranked in the Top 25 (20 years).

#1 ranking all-time in composite final AP polls (1936-2004).

20 straight seasons with 8 or more wins (longest on-going streak in the nation).

Longest on-going streak in the nation without being shut-out (261 games).

2nd most points scored & largest delta (points for minus points against) in college football history.

145 First Team All-Americans (18 two-time winners, 2 three-time winners).

30 College Football Hall of Famers.

3 Heisman Trophy Winners: (Tom Harmon 1940, Desmond Howard 1991, Charles Woodson 1997)

71 NFL Pro Bowl participants.

3 Super Bowl MVPs: (Desmond Howard 1997, Tom Brady 2002, 2004)

#1 in attendance every year but one since 1974 (193 straight games with over 100,000 in attendance).

Most televised school in college football history (355 televised games).

"The Victors" is the only fight song inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame.

Best Helmet in Football: Michigan - ESPN's "End of Century" Special

Best Uniform in Sports: Michigan - ESPN2's 64 Team Bracket Results

#1 Sports Rivalry: Michigan vs. Ohio State - ESPN's "Top 10 Greatest Sports Rivalries"

their bowl streak is current, NU's current bowl streak is one game (not yet played). Guess what? Michigan is steeped in football tradition. They fill a 100,000+ seat stadium in a state with two major college football programs and PRO sports. If you count all the whacky associations that hand out NC's Michigan has more like 24 NC's.

See the NCAA website for details.

NCAA Past Champs

:cheers

 
I find it difficult to support any conclusion that shows Michigan with a better football tradition.
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Of course you do, you are a homer. They might think the same way about nu.
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???

Homer%20Simpson%202.jpg


 
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