Tressels Resignation - Good for Nebraska?

[BOJ]

I think both of you are saying the same thing. Jaw is stating that SI is spewing sh!t without any evidence and that tOSU does have the access to the players to get evidence...That is just how I am reading it.

jaws is saying that OSU can't investigate at the tattoo parlors, therefore they couldn't know what was going on. I'm saying they don't need to investigate at the parlors - the players have all the info they need, and the school has greater access to the players than SI or the NCAA.

jaws is providing an excuse by saying that OSU couldn't possibly know what was going on. I'm saying - and the NCAA will back this when they mete out punishment - that the school not only could know, but has no excuse not to know. And evidence shows that they did know, and covered it up.

There is no mitigation for OSU here. They're busted, they're screwed, and the NCAA is going to slap them with LOIC and they'll get USC'd, bet on it.

Knapplc - I agree with you on the USC precedent. However I think it should be stiffer to start with just on the eligibility issue. At least Pete Carrol said he didn't know what was going on and stuck with it. Tressel knowingly let players play when he knew they were ineligible. For all the people that say he was protecting his players. If this was the 5 string W.R. or a Red shirt LB Tressel would have marched him in the AD's office and had his kicked off the team. He wanted to win and was accustom to breaking the rules. They are now saying that the the player had been doing this stuff since 2002.

I had to stop at this one, I have read every post, but this one is eerily similar to a ridiculous statement that Mark May made. They call it the Tat 5, but there was a 6th member that was also part of this whole fiasco that was not a starter and guess what he didn't run down the hall to tell on him either. For that matter if the SI report is true he never ratted on a non-starter.

If I may soapbox for a minute...there is no doubt Jim Tressel needed to get fired; however, he did not do this just to win. People call him a hypocrite b/c on the outside he proclaimed a "senator" like quality and "integrity" was his big word. However, people like to point out how can a self-proclaimed man of integrity lie? Good question, but I believe there is an adequate answer as well. To him integrity is keeping his family whole, keeping things in-house and cleaning them up, not playing dirty and not playing just to win. He was a man that would not turn his players in whether they be starters or fifth stringers trying to get a scholarship. The word integrity is subjective and I believe he thought it meant keeping your family together and not turning your back on your guys, maybe the NCAA didn't see it that way, but I believe even TO said he would have done the same thing.

It all has to be taken in perspective, don't hang this guy for looking out for some bad apples, he has always looked over some bad apples and a lot of times he has had the ability to turn them into great men. Troy Smith, check his bio. Maurice Clarrett (I know this one sounds silly, but) even he has attested to Tressel's steadfastness with not allowing people travel down the wrong path and sometimes that means breaking rules that don't count (i.e., did you know these men sold their own lawful possessions?). Sometimes the answer of integrity is a lie b/c f#*k the NCAA, his job is to make men of boys and he has done one hell of a job doing it and that is his integrity.

Need I remind that integrity is a subjective term and its definition comes out when dealing with those close to you, not when others judge your mistakes.

 

[BOJ]

you are looking at 8 to 10 years of bad buckeye football. reports from columbus dispatch is they are looking at 4-6 year bowl ban. then a few years to clean this mess up.

Wow. As close to the death penalty as any school could possibly come now a days if true.

You guys may need a rehash on what it takes for a death penalty, no matter what comes out of OSU it won't be the same as the Pony Express that was a professional football team at SMU.

 

[BOJ]

After reading http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1919246 I'm really starting to wonder.

A lot of people seem to think that this whole mess is due to Pryor & to a lessor extent, the other 4 tat boys. Roll the clock back 9 years and think about what Clarett claimed in 2002, and then look at what just went down at OSU. It's really starting to look like this was the norm, rather than things just getting out of hand for a few stars.

Tressel was very, very highly thought of at OSU-and everywhere else for that matter. Few coaches are viewed as squeaky clean as this holy roller was-and it's starting to look like it was one big phony front, and that he's nothing but a lying, cheating fraud.

From what I understand this whole "deal" has been going on long before even Earl Bruce coached at OSU in the early 80's. There is a pandemic in college football and if you think it stops and starts with OSU whole new thing coming I imagine.

 

[BOJ]

Since no one is going to post articles to the contrary, I'll do it for you to read.

There's a lawsuit about to be filed against SI due to libel. They named an additional 9 players in the article that supposedly sold memorabilia.

Per NCAA guidelines, James was provided as an attorney for the nine new players named. He said that in gathering background for their hearings he made them bring in their personal awards such as the gold pants charms earned for wins over Michigan, Big Ten championship rings and such. He then took pictures of the loot.

“For all nine, if there are 50 pieces at issue, we have 48 of them,” James said. “There might be a misplaced necklace or something, but they’re pretty much all there.”

http://blog.dispatch.com/buckeyesblog/2011/06/attorney_of_newly_accused_buck.shtml

Storm Klein's father started it:

"My son has no tattoos on his body," Jason Klein said. "I have all of his memorabilia. What has been written is preposterous. My son has been routinely tested for drugs and has never had a positive test."
Jason Klein said he will hire an attorney and plans to take action against Sports Illustraed, which published a story that cited an anonymous tattoo shop employee as identifying Storm as one of at least nine active players alleged to have made such trades.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6621030

Unfortunately he is suing the wrong people. He needs to sue the people that actually made the statements not the journalist who reported the words.

 

[walksalone]

He had a rally on his front lawn....

Thats just funny

 

[MichiganMan]

No one mentioning rich rodriguez?

There's a reason Ohio State loved him for his coaching ability. But that's not a good thing.

RR already has a gig with the Sooners.

I don't miss him

 

[MichiganMan]

He had a rally on his front lawn....

Thats just funny

 

[Coqui]

Since no one is going to post articles to the contrary, I'll do it for you to read.

There's a lawsuit about to be filed against SI due to libel. They named an additional 9 players in the article that supposedly sold memorabilia.

Per NCAA guidelines, James was provided as an attorney for the nine new players named. He said that in gathering background for their hearings he made them bring in their personal awards such as the gold pants charms earned for wins over Michigan, Big Ten championship rings and such. He then took pictures of the loot.

“For all nine, if there are 50 pieces at issue, we have 48 of them,” James said. “There might be a misplaced necklace or something, but they’re pretty much all there.”

http://blog.dispatch.com/buckeyesblog/2011/06/attorney_of_newly_accused_buck.shtml

Storm Klein's father started it:

"My son has no tattoos on his body," Jason Klein said. "I have all of his memorabilia. What has been written is preposterous. My son has been routinely tested for drugs and has never had a positive test."
Jason Klein said he will hire an attorney and plans to take action against Sports Illustraed, which published a story that cited an anonymous tattoo shop employee as identifying Storm as one of at least nine active players alleged to have made such trades.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6621030

They'll probably file suit because almost no lawyer is going to turn down money. They will also lose. The article was sourced with sources to corroborate the primary sources and timelines. Just because they don't like what they reported doesn't make it libel. Also they open it up to the courts, investigations, depositions involving players, coaches, administrators, the people in the tattoo shops. Then things start to carry real consequences for the players involved if they are lying.

Also what father isn't going to blindly trust the word of their own kid? OSU fans have bashed the drug dealers that the players were friends with, but they are easily as credible considering kids aren't going to go running to Daddy about hanging out with drug dealers and giving them memorabilia as trade. The difference is the drug dealers really don't have anything to gain from telling their story in this.

So while I totally understand the outraged fathers in the press and if it was a total fabrication they'd be right, but I sure as hell wouldn't take them being outraged and threatening sports illustrated with a lawsuit as any kind of factual evidence that the article in question was libelous.

And those same people are saying the article is wrong. From the QB at Youngstown State, to the owner of the tattoo parlor mentioned in the article (not the one that brought the investigation, but the other one mentioned) The story isn't sticking.

 

[Coqui]

Since no one is going to post articles to the contrary, I'll do it for you to read.

There's a lawsuit about to be filed against SI due to libel. They named an additional 9 players in the article that supposedly sold memorabilia.

Per NCAA guidelines, James was provided as an attorney for the nine new players named. He said that in gathering background for their hearings he made them bring in their personal awards such as the gold pants charms earned for wins over Michigan, Big Ten championship rings and such. He then took pictures of the loot.

“For all nine, if there are 50 pieces at issue, we have 48 of them,” James said. “There might be a misplaced necklace or something, but they’re pretty much all there.”

http://blog.dispatch.com/buckeyesblog/2011/06/attorney_of_newly_accused_buck.shtml

Storm Klein's father started it:

"My son has no tattoos on his body," Jason Klein said. "I have all of his memorabilia. What has been written is preposterous. My son has been routinely tested for drugs and has never had a positive test."
Jason Klein said he will hire an attorney and plans to take action against Sports Illustraed, which published a story that cited an anonymous tattoo shop employee as identifying Storm as one of at least nine active players alleged to have made such trades.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6621030

Unfortunately he is suing the wrong people. He needs to sue the people that actually made the statements not the journalist who reported the words.

That would be slander through hearsay, doesn't hold any weight in court.

 

[Coqui]

He had a rally on his front lawn....

Thats just funny

There was one for Earle Bruce and for Woody Hayes when they were removed from Ohio State.

 

[carlfense]

And those same people are saying the article is wrong. From the QB at Youngstown State, to the owner of the tattoo parlor mentioned in the article (not the one that brought the investigation, but the other one mentioned) The story isn't sticking.

Yeah . . . would that be like the OSU receiver who tried to claim that he never said those things to the Lantern . . . only to have the Lantern release the recorded interview?

The desire to avoid the ire of OSU fans is powerful motivation. They immediately turned on Smalls for DARING to tell the truth to the newspaper. OSU fans are always ready to attack anyone who speaks ill of the OSU program. "Oh . . . he's just upset that he didn't get to play." "He's a criminal!" Etc.

That cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing.

 

[Roark]

Since no one is going to post articles to the contrary, I'll do it for you to read.

There's a lawsuit about to be filed against SI due to libel. They named an additional 9 players in the article that supposedly sold memorabilia.

Per NCAA guidelines, James was provided as an attorney for the nine new players named. He said that in gathering background for their hearings he made them bring in their personal awards such as the gold pants charms earned for wins over Michigan, Big Ten championship rings and such. He then took pictures of the loot.

“For all nine, if there are 50 pieces at issue, we have 48 of them,” James said. “There might be a misplaced necklace or something, but they’re pretty much all there.”

http://blog.dispatch.com/buckeyesblog/2011/06/attorney_of_newly_accused_buck.shtml

Storm Klein's father started it:

"My son has no tattoos on his body," Jason Klein said. "I have all of his memorabilia. What has been written is preposterous. My son has been routinely tested for drugs and has never had a positive test."
Jason Klein said he will hire an attorney and plans to take action against Sports Illustraed, which published a story that cited an anonymous tattoo shop employee as identifying Storm as one of at least nine active players alleged to have made such trades.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6621030

". . . they're pretty much all there."

Compelling evidence, that.

You're right. 9 athletes, 2 missing memorabilia. All 9 are guilty. The story is losing credibility every day.

I don't get the malice directed at the players for the whole "you can't sell your own property as a college athlete" rule. If the NCAA has a problem with players' property increasing in value due to them being popular, then they should stop making them superstars by showing them on national television every fall weekend... Or they could just allow these kids to make a few extra bucks by hawking the things that they don't care to retain. I know it's a more sensational topic because they sold memorabilia, but would the vitriol still exist if they players sold say... clothing, books, electronics or other personal property that had increased value because of it's prior owner?

Also, note that I'm not talking about cover-ups, automobile acquisitions or any other of the charges against OSU.

It can be used as a means to funnel money from boosters that's why. Also clothing, books, electronics, and other assorted personal property don't increase in value to sports collectors. You're not gonna see someone with Suh's old xbox in a glass case display in their home. Just like you won't see a pair of dress slacks he wore once framed at someones house. Collectables are about why someone is a star, their image, what they did that was notable and historic and how rare they are.

I could definitely see a Nebraska fan buying an autographed Suh gym sock... Anyway, if that's the way they're going to play it, then they should just retain all memorabilia earned until the student graduates or do away with it all-together.

 

[BOJ]

Since no one is going to post articles to the contrary, I'll do it for you to read.

There's a lawsuit about to be filed against SI due to libel. They named an additional 9 players in the article that supposedly sold memorabilia.

Per NCAA guidelines, James was provided as an attorney for the nine new players named. He said that in gathering background for their hearings he made them bring in their personal awards such as the gold pants charms earned for wins over Michigan, Big Ten championship rings and such. He then took pictures of the loot.

“For all nine, if there are 50 pieces at issue, we have 48 of them,” James said. “There might be a misplaced necklace or something, but they’re pretty much all there.”

http://blog.dispatch.com/buckeyesblog/2011/06/attorney_of_newly_accused_buck.shtml

Storm Klein's father started it:

"My son has no tattoos on his body," Jason Klein said. "I have all of his memorabilia. What has been written is preposterous. My son has been routinely tested for drugs and has never had a positive test."
Jason Klein said he will hire an attorney and plans to take action against Sports Illustraed, which published a story that cited an anonymous tattoo shop employee as identifying Storm as one of at least nine active players alleged to have made such trades.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6621030

Unfortunately he is suing the wrong people. He needs to sue the people that actually made the statements not the journalist who reported the words.

That would be slander through hearsay, doesn't hold any weight in court.

Slander or libel evidence is predominately hearsay (unless of course actually made in court), the definition of hearsay is an out of court statement used to prove the assertion made (here it would be X said this statement out of court and I am asserting it to prove X slandered me). There are around 40 admissible exceptions to hearsay (just a couple that could get the hearsay admissible are statements made by a party opponent Federal Rules of Evidence 801(d)(2) (very much in play here) and possibly reputation of character Rule 803(21); I am sure I could come up with some more arguments for admitting it, but those are off the top of the ole' noggin), to say it would not hold any weight in court leads me to believe you are not an attorney. Hearsay is admissible in court all the time. Stop watching Law & Order for legal arguments. Just jabbing at you, but you do actually need to look into that. Most suits involving slander or libel come about b/c the plaintiff becomes aware of the statement from a third party, that does not negate the cause of action nor does it remove the possibility of bringing the evidence in trial.

On an edit: the only reason why he would be suing SI instead of the people that made the statement is b/c the individual(s) who did make the statement are judgment proof where as SI has deep pockets. He will lose the lawsuit if it went to trial b/c the journalist is not liable for printing the story (assuming he actually had a legitimate source that gave him the information and did not fabricate the story), however SI may settle just to get rid of the mess (most likely the suit would be dismissed). If the individual that made the statement actually had any money, he would be getting sued. And if SI did lose the suit for some insane reason they would sue the individual that gave them the story on some other cause of action; however, as I said the only reason that person is not brought up is b/c they can't make rent let alone be expected to pay anyone for a judgment.

 

[Coqui]

And those same people are saying the article is wrong. From the QB at Youngstown State, to the owner of the tattoo parlor mentioned in the article (not the one that brought the investigation, but the other one mentioned) The story isn't sticking.

Yeah . . . would that be like the OSU receiver who tried to claim that he never said those things to the Lantern . . . only to have the Lantern release the recorded interview?

The desire to avoid the ire of OSU fans is powerful motivation. They immediately turned on Smalls for DARING to tell the truth to the newspaper. OSU fans are always ready to attack anyone who speaks ill of the OSU program. "Oh . . . he's just upset that he didn't get to play." "He's a criminal!" Etc.

That cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing.

Valid point. However there's 3 different stories blah blah blah....It's obvious you picked which one you believe, and it's obvious I picked which one I believed. Time will tell who actually is saying the truth.

 

[carlfense]

edit: bad internet connection = double posting