Trump Inauguration

[QMany]

To add on to these last few posts:

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/21/14347952/trump-spicer-press-conference-crowd-size-inauguration

The Trump administration is creating a baseline expectation among its loyalists that they cant trust anything said by the media. The spat over crowd size is a low-stakes, semi-comic dispute, but the groundwork is being laid for much more consequential debates over what is, and isnt, true.

Delegitimizing the institutions that might report inconvenient or damaging facts about the president is strategic for an administration that has made a slew of impossible promises and takes office amid a cloud of ethics concerns and potential scandals.

I understand their strategy, but I think this will have the opposite effect. I mean, this is so clearly a bald-faced lie, Spicer's credibility is severely tarnished, not the media.

Then again, Trump is an easily fact-checked pathological compulsive liar and here we are.

 

[zoogs]

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel Q. On the one hand, it's so clear. On the other, here we are...

 

[AR Husker Fan]

Bear in mind, this is propaganda, plain and simple. While propaganda is most effective when the party espousing it controls the media, it is almost as effective if the media shirks its responsibility. Until such time as the media labels the statements for what they are - lies - and does so relentlessly and without fail, the lies will take root. Remember the old saying, "Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth." That is true, but only when the lie can be repeated without challenge.

 

[teachercd]

Bear in mind, this is propaganda, plain and simple. While propaganda is most effective when the party espousing it controls the media, it is almost as effective if the media shirks its responsibility. Until such time as the media labels the statements for what they are - lies - and does so relentlessly and without fail, the lies will take root. Remember the old saying, "Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth." That is true, but only when the lie can be repeated without challenge.

That is a Lenin quote...but not the one in your avatar!

 

[AR Husker Fan]

"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

 

[teachercd]

"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984[/size]

Animal Farm was better, don't you think?

 

[GBRHouston]

My problem with all the protests and people saying they are scared is this:

-Trump cannot take away gay marriage. he doesn't want to anyway.

-Trump will not deport anyone who is here legally. That includes Muslim and Hispanic citizens.

-Trump turned down his KKK endorsement. Can we stop using that as ammo already?

-Even if you are here illegally, any deportation program would be slow-moving, and I can guarantee that very little deportations will take place by the time he leaves office.

-Women already have a strong place in society. They will continue to.

-He is not Hitler. Making comparisons between him and Fascism is completely sickening, because we all know that will never happen to our country.

I hated Trump with a passion in the primaries. I wish he wasn't my party's nominee, but he was. He won the election the same way 44 of our previous presidents have. It's time to sit back.

 

[Danny Bateman]

My problem with all the protests and people saying they are scared is this:

-Trump cannot take away gay marriage. he doesn't want to anyway.

-Trump will not deport anyone who is here legally. That includes Muslim and Hispanic citizens.

-Trump turned down his KKK endorsement. Can we stop using that as ammo already?

-Even if you are here illegally, any deportation program would be slow-moving, and I can guarantee that very little deportations will take place by the time he leaves office.

-Women already have a strong place in society. They will continue to.

-He is not Hitler. Making comparisons between him and Fascism is completely sickening, because we all know that will never happen to our country.

I hated Trump with a passion in the primaries. I wish he wasn't my party's nominee, but he was. He won the election the same way 44 of our previous presidents have. It's time to sit back.

Never before in the history of the United States has a hostile foreign power made such a deliberate effort to interfere in our election and sway it in a particular direction. There was nothing typical about the way that Trump won the election.

Regarding your sixth point, here's something that's been making the rounds on Reddit lately:

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
   
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
   
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
   
4. Supremacy of the Military Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
   
5. Rampant Sexism The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
   
6. Controlled Mass Media Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
   
7. Obsession with National Security Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
   
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
   
9. Corporate Power is Protected The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
   
10. Labor Power is Suppressed Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .
    
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
    
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
    
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
    
14. Fraudulent Elections Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
    

Care to tell me which one of those don't aptly describe Trump's actions so far? I can make a case for any of them.

 

[AR Husker Fan]

My problem with all the protests and people saying they are scared is this:

-Trump cannot take away gay marriage. he doesn't want to anyway.

The fear, in the case of gay marriage and for LGBT rights overall, is not with Trump, but with his appointment of conservative justices that will ignore stare decisis and will roll back previous holdings supporting gains in those areas. The Republican platform is virulently opposed to LGBT rights.

-Trump will not deport anyone who is here legally. That includes Muslim and Hispanic citizens.

No one is concerned with those that are here legally - it's what happens to those who have come to this country, worked hard, contributed to society - and will be denied any chance at a path to citizenship. Those people take almost nothing from society - they hold jobs most Americans won't touch, they can't qualify for most social support programs or "entitlements", they can't access healthcare and the list goes on and on - but contribute greatly to it. And we DON'T want them to gain citizenship? They are the very kind of people we SHOULD want to provide a path.

-Trump turned down his KKK endorsement. Can we stop using that as ammo already?

He did so only after a considerable period of time, after lying about his knowledge of what and who David Duke is, and only after his poll numbers dropped due to his intractability in refusing to deny. In short, it's clear that he welcomed their support, and denounced it only when he had to.

-Even if you are here illegally, any deportation program would be slow-moving, and I can guarantee that very little deportations will take place by the time he leaves office.

See above.

-Women already have a strong place in society. They will continue to.

But not an equal place. They still trail men in wages for the same jobs, in representation in positions of authority or power (elected office, corporate leaders, etc.). More importantly, Trump has made clear - both in word and deed - that he views women as merely objects and not equals.

-He is not Hitler. Making comparisons between him and Fascism is completely sickening, because we all know that will never happen to our country.

He is engaging in many of the same practices that are used by anyone that has become, or sought to become, a dictator. The best way to ensure that it never happens in this country is to challenge those practices at every step.

I hated Trump with a passion in the primaries. I wish he wasn't my party's nominee, but he was. He won the election the same way 44 of our previous presidents have. It's time to sit back.

For the entirety of the Obama presidency, Republicans protested his position or his legitimacy. Trump has proven to be a liar, a bigot, a misogynist, a sexual predator, and more. Not only is it NOT the time to "sit back", the exact opposite is called for.

 

[knapplc]

I hated Trump with a passion in the primaries. I wish he wasn't my party's nominee, but he was. He won the election the same way 44 of our previous presidents have. It's time to sit back.

44 previous presidents have not lost the popular vote but instead were put in place by the Electoral College. Four have.

 

[zoogs]

So many of the gains upon which our belief in a fundamentally "good" world rests were hard fought, and depend on a continued, determined affirmation in those values of equality, diversity, and multiculturalism in the American experiment.

So heck, yes; when people who vary from tepid to hostile in their stances on these points come to power, there's cause for grave concern.

Further, even when the government does affirm these values, it's sometimes not enough. When they clearly will not, it's up to us as individuals to come together and keep fighting for them. America has always depended on this strength and spirit in its people.

 

[GBRHouston]

I hated Trump with a passion in the primaries. I wish he wasn't my party's nominee, but he was. He won the election the same way 44 of our previous presidents have. It's time to sit back.

44 previous presidents have not lost the popular vote but instead were put in place by the Electoral College. Four have.

Doesn't matter. Lose the electoral college, lose the election.

 

[AR Husker Fan]

https://twitter.com/alxwinter/status/823026509912952832

 

[cornstar]

-Calls women fat, pigs, and nasty

Well, Rosie is a nasty woman.

Mocked a person for their disability

This isn't true so I'm not sure that the rest of it is.

That being said, watching clips of the inauguration yesterday was surreal.

Huh?

That's a good question. I'm wondering about The President allegedly mocking a person for their disability, too.

Keep pretending you don't get it.

Oh, this must be the fake news I keep hearing about. The weak minded bit though, hook, line and sinker.

The President made that same gesture about more people than just that one reporter. It had to do with the reporter fumbling around with his words, not his disability.

It's sad how many people fall for the fake news.

So, continue with the party line rhetoric.

 

[GBRHouston]

My problem with all the protests and people saying they are scared is this:

-Trump cannot take away gay marriage. he doesn't want to anyway.

-Trump will not deport anyone who is here legally. That includes Muslim and Hispanic citizens.

-Trump turned down his KKK endorsement. Can we stop using that as ammo already?

-Even if you are here illegally, any deportation program would be slow-moving, and I can guarantee that very little deportations will take place by the time he leaves office.

-Women already have a strong place in society. They will continue to.

-He is not Hitler. Making comparisons between him and Fascism is completely sickening, because we all know that will never happen to our country.

I hated Trump with a passion in the primaries. I wish he wasn't my party's nominee, but he was. He won the election the same way 44 of our previous presidents have. It's time to sit back.

Never before in the history of the United States has a hostile foreign power made such a deliberate effort to interfere in our election and sway it in a particular direction. There was nothing typical about the way that Trump won the election.

Regarding your sixth point, here's something that's been making the rounds on Reddit lately:

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
   
   Most presidential candidates do some of these things too. I don't know how this is fascist.
   
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
   
   He is a typical conservative with regards of human rights. You're talking to a brick wall with this one.
   
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
   
   I am not saying I condone this. But look at the tweet at the end of this post.
   
4. Supremacy of the Military Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
   
   He may increase military spending, but by an expected, un-alarming amount.
   
5. Rampant Sexism The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
   
   Once again, tweet at the end of this post.
   
6. Controlled Mass Media Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
   
   N/A
   
7. Obsession with National Security Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
   
   N/A
   
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
   
   N/A
   
9. Corporate Power is Protected The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
   
   He gave up his businesses
   
10. Labor Power is Suppressed Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .
    
    No signs of even wanting to attempt to do this
    
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
    
    N/A
    
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
    
    N/A, and if you think this is true then it's sickening. The few bad officers out there are fired quickly.
    
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
    
    Trump isn't corrupt, but someone else this election was...
    
14. Fraudulent Elections Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. Oops, forgot to do my assignment. Brb gotta blame Russia.
    

Care to tell me which one of those don't aptly describe Trump's actions so far? I can make a case for any of them.

My problem with all the protests and people saying they are scared is this:

-Trump cannot take away gay marriage. he doesn't want to anyway.

The fear, in the case of gay marriage and for LGBT rights overall, is not with Trump, but with his appointment of conservative justices that will ignore stare decisis and will roll back previous holdings supporting gains in those areas. The Republican platform is virulently opposed to LGBT rights.

You're talking to a conservative. But it has already been ruled, and I see no possibility of it going back.

-Trump will not deport anyone who is here legally. That includes Muslim and Hispanic citizens.

No one is concerned with those that are here legally - it's what happens to those who have come to this country, worked hard, contributed to society - and will be denied any chance at a path to citizenship. Those people take almost nothing from society - they hold jobs most Americans won't touch, they can't qualify for most social support programs or "entitlements", they can't access healthcare and the list goes on and one - but contribute greatly to it. And we DON'T want them to gain citizenship? They are the very kind of people we SHOULD want to provide a path.

I hold a slightly awkward view on immigration. If they come here, they had better be able to fend for themselves. That means working those jobs, and being able to provide for yourself. Once you can provide for yourself and prove to be a basic American, feel free to become a citizen and pay your own tax dollars.

-Trump turned down his KKK endorsement. Can we stop using that as ammo already?

He did so only after a considerable period of time, after lying about his knowledge of what and who David Duke is, and only after his poll numbers dropped due to his intractability in refusing to deny. In short, it's clear that he welcomed their support, and denounced it only when he had to.No he did not enjoy it.

-Even if you are here illegally, any deportation program would be slow-moving, and I can guarantee that very little deportations will take place by the time he leaves office.

See above.

-Women already have a strong place in society. They will continue to.

But not an equal place. They still trail men in wages for the same jobs, in representation in positions of authority or power (elected office, corporate leaders, etc.). More importantly, Trump has made clear - both in word and deed - that he views women as merely objects and not equals. He appointed those "objects" to his cabinet. Take it as an apology, but he did it. And without tantrums, they have been continuing to provide for society.

-He is not Hitler. Making comparisons between him and Fascism is completely sickening, because we all know that will never happen to our country.

He is engaging in many of the same practices that are used by anyone that has become, or sought to become, a dictator. The best way to ensure that it never happens in this country is to challenge those practices at every step.

I hated Trump with a passion in the primaries. I wish he wasn't my party's nominee, but he was. He won the election the same way 44 of our previous presidents have. It's time to sit back.

For the entirety of the Obama presidency, Republicans protested his position or his legitimacy. Trump has proven to be a liar, a bigot, a misogynist, a sexual predator, and more. Not only is it NOT the time to "sit back", the exact opposite called for.Not in the same way. It was a discussion at the dinner table, or on Twitter, or whatever. I was not a political person whatsoever until people started going crazy, then that's when I stepped in. And if you don't sit back, then I assure you that extreme racists or sexists won't stop until you do sit back.

Everything I say is in the bold red text.

Seriously? These protests do not help get the message across to their target in a positive manner. Instead, they criminalize people who's opinion differs from theirs, and make the people they're criminalizing go more extremely against them, therefore causing an inevitable race war. Ridiculous how this is still going on.