Turner embracing new opportunity at receiver

[bshirt]

I'm all for having a few plays that he can execute, but it kind of goes against Bo's message of accountability if he is allowed to slide by only learning a few plays. I prefer Bo's method of doing things as long as he is consistent with it, which he is. If you're going to put Jamal out there when he only knows a small amount of the plays, it would send a bad message to the senior WR who has worked his butt off to learn and execute the playbook and deserves to be on the field.

I think it would too. You "must" remember your routes to play a lot. Hang tough Bo......

This is really funny, because the same standards for "knowing" the offense didn't apply according to you if the player was greased lightning, which Jamal surely is. And that was at QB.

I don't think we can have it both ways. Jamal just needs to be on the field, plain and simple. A little bit at a time, work him into various packages as a sub receiver -- since there are many receiver positions, receivers can have their own role within an offense, no double standards or accountability message conflicts there.

What???? Where in the world did I ever say the qb (Tmart or anybody else) doesn't need to know where to go with the ball? I've never said that.

JT couldn't remember his routes last year and admitted dogging it in practice. I don't remember me or heck...."anybody" else saying it's ok if our qb doesn't know what to do after the snap and/or slacks off at practice.

Even worse, if you can't remember what you're supposed to do at WR how in the world are they supposed to hack playing at QB? So to you, of course that means Bo & Beck s*cks and guys like JT should be on the field regardless.

We'll just agree to disagree on this one. Bo thinks he has to "earn" it. So do I.

 

[zoogs]

OK, then the issue is that he had a poor work ethic. And that he was sick.

What doesn't really jive with me is the argument that receivers need to have a total command of the playbook just to see the field. The veteran starters should, sure. But young, playmaking talent, they should just worked in at whatever pace is comfortable for them, so that they can be an asset for us. Obviously no true freshman is going to arrive on campus with veteran savvy and knowledge, but I don't buy the argument that they need to, especially at the receiver position in our simplified offense that has moved away from the West Coast passing principles.

Taylor had little command of the offense when he took over. He was extremely raw, and very young. But that didn't matter to you, because he was lightning with the ball in his hands. We are talking about a QB that didn't know how to read blitzes, was extremely unrefined throwing the ball, and was swimming in his command of the offense as a redshirt freshman with no experience. That was a time when the promise of athleticism and playmaking ability simply overrode the concerns of knowledge of the position. If that can happen at a position as key as QB, I don't see why it can't with ease at WR.

Oh, Jamal absolutely has to earn it, and I'm not talking about dogging it in practice or anything. I am just saying a guy with his athleticism should be able to carve out a role in the offense for himself, whether or not he has the entire thing down pat yet. I'm not even saying he needs to start. I am just disagreeing with the notion that part-time, sub or slot or backup WRs should be expected to have the Zac Taylor-esque command of the offense that we no longer require out of our quarterbacks.

 

[walksalone]

I just hope this works out. Sounds promising for right now...

 

['SkersRule]

It does sound promising. But then again the pitch Bernie Madoff made to investors sounded promising as well.

 

[Hercules]

OK, then the issue is that he had a poor work ethic. And that he was sick.

What doesn't really jive with me is the argument that receivers need to have a total command of the playbook just to see the field. The veteran starters should, sure. But young, playmaking talent, they should just worked in at whatever pace is comfortable for them, so that they can be an asset for us. Obviously no true freshman is going to arrive on campus with veteran savvy and knowledge, but I don't buy the argument that they need to, especially at the receiver position in our simplified offense that has moved away from the West Coast passing principles.

Taylor had little command of the offense when he took over. He was extremely raw, and very young. But that didn't matter to you, because he was lightning with the ball in his hands. We are talking about a QB that didn't know how to read blitzes, was extremely unrefined throwing the ball, and was swimming in his command of the offense as a redshirt freshman with no experience. That was a time when the promise of athleticism and playmaking ability simply overrode the concerns of knowledge of the position. If that can happen at a position as key as QB, I don't see why it can't with ease at WR.

Oh, Jamal absolutely has to earn it, and I'm not talking about dogging it in practice or anything. I am just saying a guy with his athleticism should be able to carve out a role in the offense for himself, whether or not he has the entire thing down pat yet. I'm not even saying he needs to start. I am just disagreeing with the notion that part-time, sub or slot or backup WRs should be expected to have the Zac Taylor-esque command of the offense that we no longer require out of our quarterbacks.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you about anything you just said. It's just that we DID carve out a role in the offense for Jamal - that's why he was the team's leading receiver halfway through last season, even though he didn't know the playbook or the position very well. Then he started underachieving - he dropped passes, he was dogging it in practice, he struggled with blocking, and Marlowe beat him out for the job. And while he doesn't need to have a QB-like command of the offense, he does have to know how to get lined up right. The coaches didn't even trust him to do that in the latter part of the 2011 season, so he didn't see the field so much as the coaches opened the offense up more in conference play.

Anyways, it's his second year in the system, his second year at the position, and we should see clear improvement from him. I think the offense as a whole is very promising - unfortunately, the biggest question marks are again on the o-line.

 

[walksalone]

It does sound promising. But then again the pitch Bernie Madoff made to investors sounded promising as well.

Yeah, but only Mets fans are retarded enough to blame Madoff for the poor financial decisions made by the Wilpons....

 

[lo country]

I'm all for having a few plays that he can execute, but it kind of goes against Bo's message of accountability if he is allowed to slide by only learning a few plays. I prefer Bo's method of doing things as long as he is consistent with it, which he is. If you're going to put Jamal out there when he only knows a small amount of the plays, it would send a bad message to the senior WR who has worked his butt off to learn and execute the playbook and deserves to be on the field.

I think it would too. You "must" remember your routes to play a lot. Hang tough Bo......

This is really funny, because the same standards for "knowing" the offense didn't apply according to you if the player was greased lightning, which Jamal surely is. And that was at QB.

I don't think we can have it both ways. Jamal just needs to be on the field, plain and simple. A little bit at a time, work him into various packages as a sub receiver -- since there are many receiver positions, receivers can have their own role within an offense, no double standards or accountability message conflicts there.

My thoughts exactly. If a guy has a particular skill set and "raw" abilities, but is a playmaker you need to find a way to get him on the field. I do not think this goes against Bo's philosophy. He seems to be a more "practice hard" get to play type go. Not really any different than Rex in the wildcat or SJB at CB. (Rex is a different animal for sure, but my point being it was a "set" of plays not the entire QB book)

 

[Warrior]

What he said,"Always on the field" What I heard, "BIG PLAYS!" What he said,"I was just running around" What I heard,"It was my fault I wasn't on the filed more last season"

 

[kchusker_chris]

I don't think anyone disagrees with you about anything you just said. It's just that we DID carve out a role in the offense for Jamal - that's why he was the team's leading receiver halfway through last season, even though he didn't know the playbook or the position very well. Then he started underachieving - he dropped passes, he was dogging it in practice, he struggled with blocking, and Marlowe beat him out for the job. And while he doesn't need to have a QB-like command of the offense, he does have to know how to get lined up right. The coaches didn't even trust him to do that in the latter part of the 2011 season, so he didn't see the field so much as the coaches opened the offense up more in conference play.

Anyways, it's his second year in the system, his second year at the position, and we should see clear improvement from him. I think the offense as a whole is very promising - unfortunately, the biggest question marks are again on the o-line.

I personally can only remember 1 dropped pass at the end of a blowout. There might have been another 1 or two, but it's not like he was dropping passes left and right. Both Kinnie and Bell dropped far more than Turner, yet they were on the field the entire season.

And I find it hard to believe that he had no issues lining up the first half of the season...then with 3 months and 7 games under his belt he all of a sudden couldn't be trusted to line up in the right spot.

 

[knapplc]

Turner himself addressed why he wasn't playing:

"I was just out there running around," Turner said. "I didn't understand the play concepts or anything like that, but now I do. Everything is so much clearer. I know what everyone's doing now. I know what the tight end, what the X (receiver) is doing. I know where they're lining up. I know where I have to line up. I know a lot more than what I did when I first started receiving this position."

He knows why he wasn't seeing the field. Sure, we all wanted him out there making plays, but he wasn't able to. The reason doesn't matter.

 

[Hercules]

I don't think anyone disagrees with you about anything you just said. It's just that we DID carve out a role in the offense for Jamal - that's why he was the team's leading receiver halfway through last season, even though he didn't know the playbook or the position very well. Then he started underachieving - he dropped passes, he was dogging it in practice, he struggled with blocking, and Marlowe beat him out for the job. And while he doesn't need to have a QB-like command of the offense, he does have to know how to get lined up right. The coaches didn't even trust him to do that in the latter part of the 2011 season, so he didn't see the field so much as the coaches opened the offense up more in conference play.

Anyways, it's his second year in the system, his second year at the position, and we should see clear improvement from him. I think the offense as a whole is very promising - unfortunately, the biggest question marks are again on the o-line.

I personally can only remember 1 dropped pass at the end of a blowout. There might have been another 1 or two, but it's not like he was dropping passes left and right. Both Kinnie and Bell dropped far more than Turner, yet they were on the field the entire season.

And I find it hard to believe that he had no issues lining up the first half of the season...then with 3 months and 7 games under his belt he all of a sudden couldn't be trusted to line up in the right spot.

Kinnie and Bell were more complete players though. They knew the whole offense, and they can block. The only reason to have Jamal on the field last year was that he was such a playmaker that he needed his touches - but if he's a liability to drop the ball when it gets thrown to him, his playmaking ability is useless. If he can't get lined up right, same thing.

If you only have one or two packages you play in, like Jamal did last year, you better damn well execute when you get your chance. If you get your chance and blow it, like he did, then expect to see guys who are more complete players, who can contribute in a variety of ways.

Furthermore, just because you remember only one dropped pass in a game doesn't mean it wasn't an issue in practice. Remember they created the "Jamal Drill," to address dropped passes, and there were multiple stories where Jamal himself admitted that he was dogging it in practice. I don't care if we have the next Randy Moss - if the kid is dogging it in practice, he sits. End of story.

 

[HuskerShark]

I don't think anyone disagrees with you about anything you just said. It's just that we DID carve out a role in the offense for Jamal - that's why he was the team's leading receiver halfway through last season, even though he didn't know the playbook or the position very well. Then he started underachieving - he dropped passes, he was dogging it in practice, he struggled with blocking, and Marlowe beat him out for the job. And while he doesn't need to have a QB-like command of the offense, he does have to know how to get lined up right. The coaches didn't even trust him to do that in the latter part of the 2011 season, so he didn't see the field so much as the coaches opened the offense up more in conference play.

Anyways, it's his second year in the system, his second year at the position, and we should see clear improvement from him. I think the offense as a whole is very promising - unfortunately, the biggest question marks are again on the o-line.

I personally can only remember 1 dropped pass at the end of a blowout. There might have been another 1 or two, but it's not like he was dropping passes left and right. Both Kinnie and Bell dropped far more than Turner, yet they were on the field the entire season.

And I find it hard to believe that he had no issues lining up the first half of the season...then with 3 months and 7 games under his belt he all of a sudden couldn't be trusted to line up in the right spot.

Kinnie and Bell were more complete players though. They knew the whole offense, and they can block. The only reason to have Jamal on the field last year was that he was such a playmaker that he needed his touches - but if he's a liability to drop the ball when it gets thrown to him, his playmaking ability is useless. If he can't get lined up right, same thing.

If you only have one or two packages you play in, like Jamal did last year, you better damn well execute when you get your chance. If you get your chance and blow it, like he did, then expect to see guys who are more complete players, who can contribute in a variety of ways.

Furthermore, just because you remember only one dropped pass in a game doesn't mean it wasn't an issue in practice. Remember they created the "Jamal Drill," to address dropped passes, and there were multiple stories where Jamal himself admitted that he was dogging it in practice. I don't care if we have the next Randy Moss - if the kid is dogging it in practice, he sits. End of story.

Exactly! And IMHO the coaches saw the potential in Jamal from the moment he set foot on campus both as a player, as well as the type of character that he seems to possess, so they are going to be extra hard on him and do everything in their power to make him reach his full potential.

 

[Hunter94]

I don't think anyone disagrees with you about anything you just said. It's just that we DID carve out a role in the offense for Jamal - that's why he was the team's leading receiver halfway through last season, even though he didn't know the playbook or the position very well. Then he started underachieving - he dropped passes, he was dogging it in practice, he struggled with blocking, and Marlowe beat him out for the job. And while he doesn't need to have a QB-like command of the offense, he does have to know how to get lined up right. The coaches didn't even trust him to do that in the latter part of the 2011 season, so he didn't see the field so much as the coaches opened the offense up more in conference play.

Anyways, it's his second year in the system, his second year at the position, and we should see clear improvement from him. I think the offense as a whole is very promising - unfortunately, the biggest question marks are again on the o-line.

I personally can only remember 1 dropped pass at the end of a blowout. There might have been another 1 or two, but it's not like he was dropping passes left and right. Both Kinnie and Bell dropped far more than Turner, yet they were on the field the entire season.

And I find it hard to believe that he had no issues lining up the first half of the season...then with 3 months and 7 games under his belt he all of a sudden couldn't be trusted to line up in the right spot.

Kinnie and Bell were more complete players though. They knew the whole offense, and they can block. The only reason to have Jamal on the field last year was that he was such a playmaker that he needed his touches - but if he's a liability to drop the ball when it gets thrown to him, his playmaking ability is useless. If he can't get lined up right, same thing.

If you only have one or two packages you play in, like Jamal did last year, you better damn well execute when you get your chance. If you get your chance and blow it, like he did, then expect to see guys who are more complete players, who can contribute in a variety of ways.

Furthermore, just because you remember only one dropped pass in a game doesn't mean it wasn't an issue in practice. Remember they created the "Jamal Drill," to address dropped passes, and there were multiple stories where Jamal himself admitted that he was dogging it in practice. I don't care if we have the next Randy Moss - if the kid is dogging it in practice, he sits. End of story.

Exactly! And IMHO the coaches saw the potential in Jamal from the moment he set foot on campus both as a player, as well as the type of character that he seems to possess, so they are going to be extra hard on him and do everything in their power to make him reach his full potential.

and the wicked witch was killed and they all lived happily every after........not so fast my friend, a lot in this fairytale doesn't add up.

 

[kchusker_chris]

Exactly! And IMHO the coaches saw the potential in Jamal from the moment he set foot on campus both as a player, as well as the type of character that he seems to possess, so they are going to be extra hard on him and do everything in their power to make him reach his full potential.

If he only reaches half his potential but it still better on the field than our other receivers does he still sit? Bo needs to win games, putting up with prima-donna receivers is just part of football these days.

What is with receivers anyway...??....always seems to be them begging for the ball, or creating some drama. Remember Paul doing this?

 

[kchusker_chris]

Furthermore, just because you remember only one dropped pass in a game doesn't mean it wasn't an issue in practice. Remember they created the "Jamal Drill," to address dropped passes...

Very true. And having a drill named after u because you drop passes has to to sting the ego a little I didn't remember that.

I don't care if we have the next Randy Moss - if the kid is dogging it in practice, he sits. End of story.

Do you think this would apply to Martinez? I just don't get our receivers sometimes. It seems to always be this position...whether GIlmore is coaching them or Fish. Same story, new year.