Uh oh. Even coach Cav is calling out the OL.

[adc7236]

Now if he'd just play the guys who have the best chances at becoming all americans.

Even if they aren't ready?

Don't tell me there's nobody better on this team than Utter. If that's the case then we can just forget Husker football ever being good again.

You can choose to go that route. Some of us are going to let the coaches get us back to being very good!!!

The way I see it is this. I have a couple of options. First option; I can act like some of the people who have been banned here recently. I can rant and rave and no matter what happens, I'll blame the coaches and demand their removal every chance I get. My life will generally be miserable because of all the doom and gloom I'll be spouting. Second option; I can maintain a positive outlook even though we had a bad year. I can maintain hope for the future and be excited when signing day comes and then spring practice after that. I can be patient and understand that sometimes coaching transitions are a process. This option leaves me happier and more stress free in my daily life, so that's what I chose, but that's just me.

Why is it binary, though? Why is it either kool aid or doom and gloom? Why can't it be a little bit of both? Why can't someone say they like Riley's disposition, are encouraged that we were in every game this season, like what we're seeing from some position groups (LBs, WRs, DBs), and are liking the S&C program, but are a little bit worried about the offensive play-calling, personnel mismanagement, refusal to rotate linemen, etc.?

I think most sensible Husker fans were a little bit unsure about the Riley hire, became downright worried when he outfitted his staff with ineffective cronies from Oregon State, and full-on hit the panic button when this supposedly veteran staff was making game management mistakes that would cause a pimply faced Madden playing teenager do a face palm. That said, we want the program to succeed and are hopeful it will, but see some concerning issues that warrant mention if only because it's cathartic to voice our opinion, but also in the faint, perhaps unrealistic hope that someone important is listening and might take what the fans are seeing to heart.

+1

 

[adc7236]

Part of it is kids now are softer than ever

Kids are softer, but so is society as a whole. Criticism is taboo now. Just look at HuskerMax. It's a mortal sin to call out a player on that board.

It's always been and always will be taboo to call out ANYONE personally on a bulletin board. This is a place for discussion...not personal attacks. If you think it's unfair you might want to stop visiting to avoid being frustrated each time.

 

[Saunders]

Epley already called them out. Cavanaugh (and Riley) are simply feeling the heat. As they should.

Agree 100%. This staff has been in place for years and must be held accountable for decades (since 2001) of mismanagement.

Yeah.

Can you list some of this mismanagement - or is it just a generic comment to cover your agenda?

DJ Foster should be on the field.

Do you coach him? I hope he will have a good offseason and be good enough to start, but we seem to have an abundance of underachievers right now.

Oh, this argument again....

 

[adc7236]

Part of it is kids now are softer than ever

Kids are softer, but so is society as a whole. Criticism is taboo now. Just look at HuskerMax. It's a mortal sin to call out a player on that board.

It's always been and always will be taboo to call out ANYONE personally on a bulletin board. This is a place for discussion...not personal attacks. If you think it's unfair you might want to stop visiting to avoid being frustrated each time.

 

[Saunders]

Why is it binary, though? Why is it either kool aid or doom and gloom? Why can't it be a little bit of both? Why can't someone say they like Riley's disposition, are encouraged that we were in every game this season, like what we're seeing from some position groups (LBs, WRs, DBs), and are liking the S&C program, but are a little bit worried about the offensive play-calling, personnel mismanagement, refusal to rotate linemen, etc.?

I think most sensible Husker fans were a little bit unsure about the Riley hire, became downright worried when he outfitted his staff with ineffective cronies from Oregon State, and full-on hit the panic button when this supposedly veteran staff was making game management mistakes that would cause a pimply faced Madden playing teenager do a face palm. That said, we want the program to succeed and are hopeful it will, but see some concerning issues that warrant mention if only because it's cathartic to voice our opinion, but also in the faint, perhaps unrealistic hope that someone important is listening and might take what the fans are seeing to heart.

+1

 

[Enhance]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.

I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I think what you're saying is entirely possible. Just to play Devil's Advocate a bit, it's also possible that cross comparisons of height/weight between some of Nebraska's old linemen and linemen from around the country may be fairly similar. I mean, if you look across the NFL, there are plenty of Pro Bowl caliber linemen that have huge, fatty guts. These guys take down so much food because they have to, and some guys certainly hold weight better than others. Though I'm no expert, I never thought the Huskers looked slow, fat or overweight. I thought their problems always appeared to be more in the fundamental, technique and identity realm.

I can't weigh accountability - I can't personally measure accountability (no pun intended). I know the athletic department very closely monitors their weights and food intake and I have a hard time believing diet accountability was a problem under the previous regime.

As for Kenny Bell, it's very, very common for athletes to pack on muscle prior to the combine. It's just different when they're in school and have classes to worry about on top of their training. A lot of guys are graduates when they prep for the combine so literally all they do day and night is worry about their diet and work out.

Again, we both seem to agree on quite a bit. I'm just playing the other side a bit to offer some other perspective for all of us to consider.

 

[Elf]

Now if he'd just play the guys who have the best chances at becoming all americans.

Even if they aren't ready?

Don't tell me there's nobody better on this team than Utter. If that's the case then we can just forget Husker football ever being good again.

You can choose to go that route. Some of us are going to let the coaches get us back to being very good!!!

The way I see it is this. I have a couple of options. First option; I can act like some of the people who have been banned here recently. I can rant and rave and no matter what happens, I'll blame the coaches and demand their removal every chance I get. My life will generally be miserable because of all the doom and gloom I'll be spouting. Second option; I can maintain a positive outlook even though we had a bad year. I can maintain hope for the future and be excited when signing day comes and then spring practice after that. I can be patient and understand that sometimes coaching transitions are a process. This option leaves me happier and more stress free in my daily life, so that's what I chose, but that's just me.

Why is it binary, though? Why is it either kool aid or doom and gloom? Why can't it be a little bit of both? Why can't someone say they like Riley's disposition, are encouraged that we were in every game this season, like what we're seeing from some position groups (LBs, WRs, DBs), and are liking the S&C program, but are a little bit worried about the offensive play-calling, personnel mismanagement, refusal to rotate linemen, etc.?

I think most sensible Husker fans were a little bit unsure about the Riley hire, became downright worried when he outfitted his staff with ineffective cronies from Oregon State, and full-on hit the panic button when this supposedly veteran staff was making game management mistakes that would cause a pimply faced Madden playing teenager do a face palm. That said, we want the program to succeed and are hopeful it will, but see some concerning issues that warrant mention if only because it's cathartic to voice our opinion, but also in the faint, perhaps unrealistic hope that someone important is listening and might take what the fans are seeing to heart.

I think it is important to point out the part I bolded. Your mileage obviously varies and I'm ok with that.

 

[Stumpy1]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.

I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I think what you're saying is entirely possible. Just to play Devil's Advocate a bit, it's also possible that cross comparisons of height/weight between some of Nebraska's old linemen and linemen from around the country may be fairly similar. I mean, if you look across the NFL, there are plenty of Pro Bowl caliber linemen that have huge, fatty guts. These guys take down so much food because they have to, and some guys certainly hold weight better than others. Though I'm no expert, I never thought the Huskers looked slow, fat or overweight. I thought their problems always appeared to be more in the fundamental, technique and identity realm.

I can't weigh accountability - I can't personally measure accountability (no pun intended). I know the athletic department very closely monitors their weights and food intake and I have a hard time believing diet accountability was a problem under the previous regime.

As for Kenny Bell, it's very, very common for athletes to pack on muscle prior to the combine. It's just different when they're in school and have classes to worry about on top of their training. A lot of guys are graduates when they prep for the combine so literally all they do day and night is worry about their diet and work out.

Again, we both seem to agree on quite a bit. I'm just playing the other side a bit to offer some other perspective for all of us to consider.

Dobson is a very smart man when it comes to S&C but is a horrible coach/teacher. He very seldom was hands on with the players and would have his assistant coaches do most of the lifting sessions. He had no accountability set up for the players and there were times when players would sign another player in and that player wouldn't show up.

Philipp is the complete opposite of Dobson. He is very hands on and holds the players and his assistants accountable. The only knock on Philipp is his experience and knowledge but having Epley around will take care of that issue.

 

[Enhance]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.

I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I think what you're saying is entirely possible. Just to play Devil's Advocate a bit, it's also possible that cross comparisons of height/weight between some of Nebraska's old linemen and linemen from around the country may be fairly similar. I mean, if you look across the NFL, there are plenty of Pro Bowl caliber linemen that have huge, fatty guts. These guys take down so much food because they have to, and some guys certainly hold weight better than others. Though I'm no expert, I never thought the Huskers looked slow, fat or overweight. I thought their problems always appeared to be more in the fundamental, technique and identity realm.

I can't weigh accountability - I can't personally measure accountability (no pun intended). I know the athletic department very closely monitors their weights and food intake and I have a hard time believing diet accountability was a problem under the previous regime.

As for Kenny Bell, it's very, very common for athletes to pack on muscle prior to the combine. It's just different when they're in school and have classes to worry about on top of their training. A lot of guys are graduates when they prep for the combine so literally all they do day and night is worry about their diet and work out.

Again, we both seem to agree on quite a bit. I'm just playing the other side a bit to offer some other perspective for all of us to consider.

Dobson is a very smart man when it comes to S&C but is a horrible coach/teacher. He very seldom was hands on with the players and would have his assistant coaches do most of the lifting sessions. He had no accountability set up for the players and there were times when players would sign another player in and that player wouldn't show up.

Philipp is the complete opposite of Dobson. He is very hands on and holds the players and his assistants accountable. The only knock on Philipp is his experience and knowledge but having Epley around will take care of that issue.

Perhaps there is something to that, but I don't know. I don't know the inner workings of Dobson's regime any better than I do Philipp's.

At times this season we had people on this very message board criticizing the S&C and where the players were at. Early in Bo's tenure, we had people on this very message board applauding Dobson and the progress he was making with the team.

I think S&C can easily become a fall guy, a scapegoat for explaining away problems with the team. That doesn't mean what you're saying is wrong or that S&C couldn't have been better. Like I said - I don't know. From my perspective, however, it wasn't S&C that made Martinez one of the worst turnover machines and it wasn't S&C that had us getting blown out at least one game a season. What I saw was more of a coaching and talent question than a physical question.

 

[knapplc]

Why is it binary, though? Why is it either kool aid or doom and gloom? Why can't it be a little bit of both? Why can't someone say they like Riley's disposition, are encouraged that we were in every game this season, like what we're seeing from some position groups (LBs, WRs, DBs), and are liking the S&C program, but are a little bit worried about the offensive play-calling, personnel mismanagement, refusal to rotate linemen, etc.?

I think most sensible Husker fans were a little bit unsure about the Riley hire, became downright worried when he outfitted his staff with ineffective cronies from Oregon State, and full-on hit the panic button when this supposedly veteran staff was making game management mistakes that would cause a pimply faced Madden playing teenager do a face palm. That said, we want the program to succeed and are hopeful it will, but see some concerning issues that warrant mention if only because it's cathartic to voice our opinion, but also in the faint, perhaps unrealistic hope that someone important is listening and might take what the fans are seeing to heart.

We should all strive to make this much sense. Succinctly put, without rancor or bias, just a sober analysis of what we saw this year.

 

[Elf]

Why is it binary, though? Why is it either kool aid or doom and gloom? Why can't it be a little bit of both? Why can't someone say they like Riley's disposition, are encouraged that we were in every game this season, like what we're seeing from some position groups (LBs, WRs, DBs), and are liking the S&C program, but are a little bit worried about the offensive play-calling, personnel mismanagement, refusal to rotate linemen, etc.?

I think most sensible Husker fans were a little bit unsure about the Riley hire, became downright worried when he outfitted his staff with ineffective cronies from Oregon State, and full-on hit the panic button when this supposedly veteran staff was making game management mistakes that would cause a pimply faced Madden playing teenager do a face palm. That said, we want the program to succeed and are hopeful it will, but see some concerning issues that warrant mention if only because it's cathartic to voice our opinion, but also in the faint, perhaps unrealistic hope that someone important is listening and might take what the fans are seeing to heart.

We should all strive to make this much sense. Succinctly put, without rancor or bias, just a sober analysis of what we saw this year.

I'm not saying we can't criticize. When I see something that goes wrong, I don't immediately call for the coaches heads. Instead I look to see how they plan on fixing it. We aren't always privy to that information though so I try to give them the benefit of the doubt because its their jobs that depend on them correcting mistakes.

 

[Enhance]

I imagine some people will be interested in this.

I can see this being spun a few ways. I'm inclined to associate this more with the low talent levels having something to do with this at OSU, but sending only four linemen to the draft in about 10 years can also be an indictment of the coaching.

 

[Stumpy1]

I imagine some people will be interested in this.

I can see this being spun a few ways. I'm inclined to associate this more with the low talent levels having something to do with this at OSU, but sending only four linemen to the draft in about 10 years can also be an indictment of the coaching.

3 of them were All-Americans and he has 23 all-conference players under his belt while there. I would gladly take that.

 

[cm husker]

I imagine some people will be interested in this.

I can see this being spun a few ways. I'm inclined to associate this more with the low talent levels having something to do with this at OSU, but sending only four linemen to the draft in about 10 years can also be an indictment of the coaching.

3 of them were All-Americans and he has 23 all-conference players under his belt while there. I would gladly take that.

Where are you finding those stats? this list only includes one all-american under him at OSU:

http://www.osubeavers.com/fls/30800/old_site/pdf/m-footbl/2011-12/misc_non_event/11-footbl-media-guide-pt15.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=30800

 

[NebraskaShellback]

OL = Offensive language!