What defensive unit is the weakest link?

[Igetbored216]

I don't think people understand the 3-4 all that well. The d-line shouldn't be making plays right and left. They are there to eat up blockers. The linebackers should be making the plays, but they are always so far out of position, it makes the d-line look horrible. 

In addition, we have no pass rushers at the OLB position, so this makes the pass defense look horrible too. It's so frustrating to watch. 

 

[gobiggergoredder]

You're not supposed to be hearing the DL's names being called much! That's not how it works in most 3-4 schemes! Posts like this are driving me batty, because there's a whole lot of misplaced blame here.

I mean hell, simple counting should tell you that you're not going to hear the DL's names called as much, since there's only three of them on the field. But you also need to realize that they have very different responsibilities in a 3-4 than in a 4-3. Mostly, they're there to chew up OL blocks and take up space, while the linebackers are the guys responsible for pass rush and making plays. And it's our linebackers that are letting us down, there.

 ^ More teams turning to 3-4 defense - ESPN

Here's what Purdue's coach had to say about our D after the game:

TL;DR: Our linebackers are the problem, and it's not even close. And it's even scarier when you look at how our LB recruiting has went lately...

Let’s just say everything you said is 100% accurate.......

Does that mean the DL can’t make an individual play?  Does that mean a DL cant beat a block for a sack or hurry?  3-4 DL cant make a play?

 

[WyoHusker56]

I think this is a good example. Our DE, Khalil I think, makes a good play to help slow down the RB. The DL can make plays in the 3-4, it's just not always their primary responsibility. For example, on this play Daniel's eats up two blockers as part of a double team which should free up one of our MLB to make a play. However, the LB in this play (I don't know his gap responsibility, but seems like it should be on the backside) runs into the double team and takes himself out of the play. Maybe the safety needs to crash down harder, not sure. However, I think this is a good example of our DL doing their job well and our LBs/run support being completely missing on the play. 

 

[Jarhead In Red]

I think this is a good example. Our DE, Khalil I think, makes a good play to help slow down the RB. The DL can make plays in the 3-4, it's just not always their primary responsibility. For example, on this play Daniel's eats up two blockers as part of a double team which should free up one of our MLB to make a play. However, the LB in this play (I don't know his gap responsibility, but seems like it should be on the backside) runs into the double team and takes himself out of the play. Maybe the safety needs to crash down harder, not sure. However, I think this is a good example of our DL doing their job well and our LBs/run support being completely missing on the play. 

Good point about the DL. They did a decent job of holding their ground, and I gotta think a LB should be fitting in the playside A/B gap to stop the play. Thanks for taking the time to do the analysis.  :cheers

 

[NUinID]

Linebackers are by far the worse part of this defense.  This IMO ia more important than having a great NG in a 3-4 having great linebackers.  When you can combine that with a great NG then you have something special.  Our d-line is actually pretty decent.  Are linebackers are terrible.  Wisconsin has a fairly average d-line and NG they have excellent linebackers.  

I mean lets look at the linebackers that are playing.

Alex Davis is a converted 4-3 d-end that played 1 year of HS football. He looks the part, but doesn't play the part at all.

Caleb Tanner is a little young and a little light to play the spot so far could have used a RS year. 

Nelson is physically ready, but isn't ready to be the man as a true freshman.

JoJo is a converted safety

Ferguson- it is my understanding is checked out and just going through the motions.  That is why he doesn't play.  

Barry- Has gained too much wt and has slowed down.  He is not a good fit for the 3-4.  He is a much better weak side 4-3 backer. 

Honas has slowed down due to his ACL injury.  He is also better suited to the 4-3.

Miller is a converted d-end that is probably a step slow to play linebacker. 

That is our linebacker core.  Wisconsin goes 2 deep of guys that are all between 6'2" and 6'4".  They all are about 240lbs and can run and are super aggressive.  They aren't nearly as athletic as say guys at OSU, but I would kill to have those linebackers.  

Even with all that said they need to put them in a better situation on defense.  They can't have them trying to do something they can't do.  Like chasing a RB on crossing patterns. 

 

[Husker in WI]

That is our linebacker core.  Wisconsin goes 2 deep of guys that are all between 6'2" and 6'4".  They all are about 240lbs and can run and are super aggressive.  They aren't nearly as athletic as say guys at OSU, but I would kill to have those linebackers.  

At Wisconsin, Orr is very generously listed at 6' and the others are 6'2, 6'2, and 6'3. Other than Chenal (250) they are listed between 224-232. So it's really not the size - an extra inch or two would be nice, but they're not that much taller or bigger than our guys. They absolutely play faster though, and are actually assignment sound. I really thought they'd take a step back there this year, but they just churn these guys out.

 

[NUinID]

At Wisconsin, Orr is very generously listed at 6' and the others are 6'2, 6'2, and 6'3. Other than Chenal (250) they are listed between 224-232. So it's really not the size - an extra inch or two would be nice, but they're not that much taller or bigger than our guys. They absolutely play faster though, and are actually assignment sound. I really thought they'd take a step back there this year, but they just churn these guys out.

OK, never even looked at their measurables.  They all look the same though.  They play fast, because they know what they are doing and they are super aggressive.   Last year the had some injuries that got some guys a lot of experience.  I would still love to have them playing at Nebraska.   

 

[NUinID]

Good point about the DL. They did a decent job of holding their ground, and I gotta think a LB should be fitting in the playside A/B gap to stop the play. Thanks for taking the time to do the analysis.  :cheers

 The linebacker was blitzing.  The safety needs to fill faster and they probably don't get the 1st down.  

edit: sorry didn't look real close on first viewing.  Thought it was 3rd and 3 not 3rd and half a yard.  Still should have filled faster.  

 

[Jarhead In Red]

 The linebacker was blitzing.  The safety needs to fill faster and they probably don't get the 1st down.  

edit: sorry didn't look real close on first viewing.  Thought it was 3rd and 3 not 3rd and half a yard.  Still should have filled faster.  

Ya, it looks like we are playing a 7 man box, and if you dog  the LB into one of the A gaps (in this case backside), you would think there should be someone to fill hard and fast in the playside A/B/C gaps on a short yardage/goal line situation. Maybe someone (The Safety?) lined up wrong or blew an assignment, but it looks like the Defense isn't set up very well to defend the weak side of the formation, which is exactly where the play went. I think you are right though, if the Safety doesn't stay deep and comes up hard on run support, then there is good chance he stuffs the runner and we aren't having this conversation. I would be curious as to what exactly Chins called on this play, and if we are lined up correctly......

 

[Treand3]

I don't think people understand the 3-4 all that well. The d-line shouldn't be making plays right and left. They are there to eat up blockers. The linebackers should be making the plays, but they are always so far out of position, it makes the d-line look horrible. 

In addition, we have no pass rushers at the OLB position, so this makes the pass defense look horrible too. It's so frustrating to watch. 

Completely agree. 3-4 defense will not work if your LB play is shaky. By far the most important part of the scheme.

 

[Igetbored216]

Completely agree. 3-4 defense will not work if your LB play is shaky. By far the most important part of the scheme.

I would say linebacker play in a 3-4 is the most important in order for it to be successful. (and perhaps the NT). The linebackers have to have great eye discipline. We have seen what happens every week when they don't.

In addition, the outside linebackers need to be able to get after the QB. There is no one currently on the team (that I know of) at that position capable of doing this. Again, we have seen the results every week. 

Maybe it's coaching. Maybe it's the linebackers wanting to work outside the system to make a play. Honestly, I'm not really sure what it is at this point. 

 

[Danimal]

Great points.  We need some linebackers....if anyone watches tape, its clear our DL is NOT the problem.  Our LBs flat out suck.  We may have the worst set of LBs in power 5 football.  Probably worse than many FCS teams even.

Edit: Im not sure how good our 2nd string safeties are, but i would have seriously considered playing a 4-2-5, or a 3-0-8 for that matter.  3 or 4 DL, and a bunch of safeties/corners....just take our LBs off the field please.

I think a 4-2-5 with Domann as kind of a tweener is the way to go. 

 

[Igetbored216]

I think a 4-2-5 with Domann as kind of a tweener is the way to go. 

Didn't Bo use a variation of the 4-2-5? The tweener position you are talking about he referred to as the Peso 

 

[Husker in WI]

I mean 4-2-5, Big Nickel, whatever you want to call it - based on how much spread we see it's run as much as the base defense. In our our case it's a 3-3-5 with Domann as the nickel/peso/whatever. And Alex Davis is basically a DE, so it's not that different than what we're doing now. If Alex Davis falls forward so his hand is on the ground, this is a 4-2-5.

 

[Danimal]

Didn't Bo use a variation of the 4-2-5? The tweener position you are talking about he referred to as the Peso 

Ya, was thinking along the lines of how we used to use Eric Hagg.