What did we learn-Purdue edition

[Nebfanatic]

Getting backs outside the tackles with something other than stretch, outside zone, or jet sweeps.

What would you suggest?

quick pitch, but for this to work we need guys who can get out in front and block. I think we see more outside run with the return of Cethan Carter

 

[Count 'Bility]

Getting backs outside the tackles with something other than stretch, outside zone, or jet sweeps.

What would you suggest?

quick pitch, but for this to work we need guys who can get out in front and block. I think we see more outside run with the return of Cethan Carter

are you talking traditional I-toss? quick pitch out of 1 back shotgun? I guess my point is, when folks say other than stretch, outside zone, jet sweeps, that really narrows it down to nothing. it comes down to execution. If you dont have the ability, you dont have the ability. it's hard to just outflank a defense in the run game. Defenses are pretty sound leverage wise these days.

 

[dmeyer24]

I didnt get to watch the game live. I was working all day. When I finally got to it Sunday night, i was really REALLY surprised by the abundance of under the center, conventional handoff game. Esp with the injury issues up front. I've always been a fan of langsdorf, so I trying to think that there might be some calculating plan here. But this is where our big struggle is. Our line is simply not dominant enough. Which is neatralized by spread-shotgun run game.

Or a PA screen/swing pass. We saw a few, but with the penetration up the middle you think we would have pushed things out to the edge way more than we did. Even in the run game. This team desperately needs the 2011 toss sweep game. Or maybe a counter play. Anything to get us outside the guards and away from the center (where our issues lie).
The counter may have blown up in our faces with the way #9 was getting after it. But you hit him with a trap play and he may slow down a bit.

One thing I don't like with Langsdorf/Riley's offense is the lack of imaginative run designs to get outside the tackles. Outside zone/stretch plays take so long to develop, and the jet sweeps seem to be boom or bust. I'm not a coach or play designer, but there should be basic plays to get the RB outside the tackles in the run game.

Early in the year we saw QB Power, OZ, and TE Reverses all designed to get outside the tackles. Now we have backup guards, a gimpy Tommy, and no Cethan taking those plays away from us. Hard to be imaginative at this point and Tommy's lack of short accuracy on the screen game is killing us.

 

[Count 'Bility]

I didnt get to watch the game live. I was working all day. When I finally got to it Sunday night, i was really REALLY surprised by the abundance of under the center, conventional handoff game. Esp with the injury issues up front. I've always been a fan of langsdorf, so I trying to think that there might be some calculating plan here. But this is where our big struggle is. Our line is simply not dominant enough. Which is neatralized by spread-shotgun run game.

Or a PA screen/swing pass. We saw a few, but with the penetration up the middle you think we would have pushed things out to the edge way more than we did. Even in the run game. This team desperately needs the 2011 toss sweep game. Or maybe a counter play. Anything to get us outside the guards and away from the center (where our issues lie).
The counter may have blown up in our faces with the way #9 was getting after it. But you hit him with a trap play and he may slow down a bit.

One thing I don't like with Langsdorf/Riley's offense is the lack of imaginative run designs to get outside the tackles. Outside zone/stretch plays take so long to develop, and the jet sweeps seem to be boom or bust. I'm not a coach or play designer, but there should be basic plays to get the RB outside the tackles in the run game.

Early in the year we saw QB Power, OZ, and TE Reverses all designed to get outside the tackles. Now we have backup guards, a gimpy Tommy, and no Cethan taking those plays away from us. Hard to be imaginative at this point and Tommy's lack of short accuracy on the screen game is killing us.

That's the way I'm seeing it. At this point it's a personell issue and the dynamics of a defense and what they can focus on. Let's be honest. 11 Personell. Id a defense really gonna pay as much respect to a Cotton/Foster combo without Westerkamp in the slot as they would with Carter on the field WITH Westerkamp int he slot? i think it's competely changed dynamics of these defenses and done a lot to limit our multiplicity. Really ties the hands of an OC and an oline.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Gosh, i wonder what Michigan would look like without Jake Butte and their best receiver.

Or Wisconsin without Fumigalli and their best receiver.

 

[dmeyer24]

I didnt get to watch the game live. I was working all day. When I finally got to it Sunday night, i was really REALLY surprised by the abundance of under the center, conventional handoff game. Esp with the injury issues up front. I've always been a fan of langsdorf, so I trying to think that there might be some calculating plan here. But this is where our big struggle is. Our line is simply not dominant enough. Which is neatralized by spread-shotgun run game.

Or a PA screen/swing pass. We saw a few, but with the penetration up the middle you think we would have pushed things out to the edge way more than we did. Even in the run game. This team desperately needs the 2011 toss sweep game. Or maybe a counter play. Anything to get us outside the guards and away from the center (where our issues lie).
The counter may have blown up in our faces with the way #9 was getting after it. But you hit him with a trap play and he may slow down a bit.

One thing I don't like with Langsdorf/Riley's offense is the lack of imaginative run designs to get outside the tackles. Outside zone/stretch plays take so long to develop, and the jet sweeps seem to be boom or bust. I'm not a coach or play designer, but there should be basic plays to get the RB outside the tackles in the run game.

Early in the year we saw QB Power, OZ, and TE Reverses all designed to get outside the tackles. Now we have backup guards, a gimpy Tommy, and no Cethan taking those plays away from us. Hard to be imaginative at this point and Tommy's lack of short accuracy on the screen game is killing us.

That's the way I'm seeing it. At this point it's a personell issue and the dynamics of a defense and what they can focus on. Let's be honest. 11 Personell. Id a defense really gonna pay as much respect to a Cotton/Foster combo without Westerkamp in the slot as they would with Carter on the field WITH Westerkamp int he slot? i think it's competely changed dynamics of these defenses and done a lot to limit our multiplicity. Really ties the hands of an OC and an oline.

Exactly! Westerkamp back this week should help with the 3rd down woes. Hopefully Gates, Farmer and Knevel can get healthier this week.

 

[ColoradoHusk]

I didnt get to watch the game live. I was working all day. When I finally got to it Sunday night, i was really REALLY surprised by the abundance of under the center, conventional handoff game. Esp with the injury issues up front. I've always been a fan of langsdorf, so I trying to think that there might be some calculating plan here. But this is where our big struggle is. Our line is simply not dominant enough. Which is neatralized by spread-shotgun run game.

Or a PA screen/swing pass. We saw a few, but with the penetration up the middle you think we would have pushed things out to the edge way more than we did. Even in the run game. This team desperately needs the 2011 toss sweep game. Or maybe a counter play. Anything to get us outside the guards and away from the center (where our issues lie).
The counter may have blown up in our faces with the way #9 was getting after it. But you hit him with a trap play and he may slow down a bit.

One thing I don't like with Langsdorf/Riley's offense is the lack of imaginative run designs to get outside the tackles. Outside zone/stretch plays take so long to develop, and the jet sweeps seem to be boom or bust. I'm not a coach or play designer, but there should be basic plays to get the RB outside the tackles in the run game.

Early in the year we saw QB Power, OZ, and TE Reverses all designed to get outside the tackles. Now we have backup guards, a gimpy Tommy, and no Cethan taking those plays away from us. Hard to be imaginative at this point and Tommy's lack of short accuracy on the screen game is killing us.

That's the way I'm seeing it. At this point it's a personell issue and the dynamics of a defense and what they can focus on. Let's be honest. 11 Personell. Id a defense really gonna pay as much respect to a Cotton/Foster combo without Westerkamp in the slot as they would with Carter on the field WITH Westerkamp int he slot? i think it's competely changed dynamics of these defenses and done a lot to limit our multiplicity. Really ties the hands of an OC and an oline.

Exactly! Westerkamp back this week should help with the 3rd down woes. Hopefully Gates, Farmer and Knevel can get healthier this week.

I think that 3rd down conversion success has more to do with 1st and 2nd down success, but yes Westerkamp being back should help.

 

[Joe_5700]

I learned that going to the game thread is terrible, especially when NU is losing.

It is a good place to get a few laughs and

. We could be on a 30 game win streak and if we didn't win every game 151-0 then we are the worst Top 10 team in the history of college football.

Before internet message boards in the early-mid 90's just about every fan said this very thing back then with close victories to lesser teams.

 

[Count 'Bility]

I learned that going to the game thread is terrible, especially when NU is losing.

It is a good place to get a few laughs and

. We could be on a 30 game win streak and if we didn't win every game 151-0 then we are the worst Top 10 team in the history of college football.

Before internet message boards in the early-mid 90's just about every fan said this very thing back then with close victories to lesser teams.

1993 Kansas woulda been a doozy. 1994 Wyoming woulda been a meltdown. Same with 1994 Oklahoma. member how the Washington st game started, with this overreacting society? Woulda been a whole bunch of "time for Osborne to retire" in 1996. Lol. Fun to speculate on this stuff.

 

[Landlord]

^ why I can't stand interacting with 99% of sports fans in person, and probably 75% of them online if we're losing or not playing well. There are tons of Bama fans that think Saban is washed up and not performing nearly good enough at his job. I don't have any patience for such homerism, and it exists everywhere.

 

[Nebfanatic]

^ why I can't stand interacting with 99% of sports fans in person, and probably 75% of them online if we're losing or not playing well. There are tons of Bama fans that think Saban is washed up and not performing nearly good enough at his job. I don't have any patience for such homerism, and it exists everywhere.

Seriously. There is a fan base and an anti fan base for every team. People think the team isn't good even if they win every game by 50 and claim to be "fans"

 

[Mavric]

[No message]

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

This team has a lot of faults, but knowing how to close in the fourth quarter makes up for a lot of them.

 

[ZRod]

I didnt get to watch the game live. I was working all day. When I finally got to it Sunday night, i was really REALLY surprised by the abundance of under the center, conventional handoff game. Esp with the injury issues up front. I've always been a fan of langsdorf, so I trying to think that there might be some calculating plan here. But this is where our big struggle is. Our line is simply not dominant enough. Which is neatralized by spread-shotgun run game.

Or a PA screen/swing pass. We saw a few, but with the penetration up the middle you think we would have pushed things out to the edge way more than we did. Even in the run game. This team desperately needs the 2011 toss sweep game. Or maybe a counter play. Anything to get us outside the guards and away from the center (where our issues lie).The counter may have blown up in our faces with the way #9 was getting after it. But you hit him with a trap play and he may slow down a bit.

One thing I don't like with Langsdorf/Riley's offense is the lack of imaginative run designs to get outside the tackles. Outside zone/stretch plays take so long to develop, and the jet sweeps seem to be boom or bust. I'm not a coach or play designer, but there should be basic plays to get the RB outside the tackles in the run game.

Early in the year we saw QB Power, OZ, and TE Reverses all designed to get outside the tackles. Now we have backup guards, a gimpy Tommy, and no Cethan taking those plays away from us. Hard to be imaginative at this point and Tommy's lack of short accuracy on the screen game is killing us.

That's the way I'm seeing it. At this point it's a personell issue and the dynamics of a defense and what they can focus on. Let's be honest. 11 Personell. Id a defense really gonna pay as much respect to a Cotton/Foster combo without Westerkamp in the slot as they would with Carter on the field WITH Westerkamp int he slot? i think it's competely changed dynamics of these defenses and done a lot to limit our multiplicity. Really ties the hands of an OC and an oline.

If you can't get to the edge, why couldn't you come back with a trap play, or fullback dive away from the NT? Give him a reason to hesitate and not bull rush up field. Those are basic plays, one of which we had last year. You don't need to get chunck yardage from them, just give the D another wrinkle to think about and slow down the rush.

 

[Count 'Bility]

I didnt get to watch the game live. I was working all day. When I finally got to it Sunday night, i was really REALLY surprised by the abundance of under the center, conventional handoff game. Esp with the injury issues up front. I've always been a fan of langsdorf, so I trying to think that there might be some calculating plan here. But this is where our big struggle is. Our line is simply not dominant enough. Which is neatralized by spread-shotgun run game.

Or a PA screen/swing pass. We saw a few, but with the penetration up the middle you think we would have pushed things out to the edge way more than we did. Even in the run game. This team desperately needs the 2011 toss sweep game. Or maybe a counter play. Anything to get us outside the guards and away from the center (where our issues lie).The counter may have blown up in our faces with the way #9 was getting after it. But you hit him with a trap play and he may slow down a bit.

One thing I don't like with Langsdorf/Riley's offense is the lack of imaginative run designs to get outside the tackles. Outside zone/stretch plays take so long to develop, and the jet sweeps seem to be boom or bust. I'm not a coach or play designer, but there should be basic plays to get the RB outside the tackles in the run game.

Early in the year we saw QB Power, OZ, and TE Reverses all designed to get outside the tackles. Now we have backup guards, a gimpy Tommy, and no Cethan taking those plays away from us. Hard to be imaginative at this point and Tommy's lack of short accuracy on the screen game is killing us.

That's the way I'm seeing it. At this point it's a personell issue and the dynamics of a defense and what they can focus on. Let's be honest. 11 Personell. Id a defense really gonna pay as much respect to a Cotton/Foster combo without Westerkamp in the slot as they would with Carter on the field WITH Westerkamp int he slot? i think it's competely changed dynamics of these defenses and done a lot to limit our multiplicity. Really ties the hands of an OC and an oline.

If you can't get to the edge, why couldn't you come back with a trap play, or fullback dive away from the NT? Give him a reason to hesitate and not bull rush up field. Those are basic plays, one of which we had last year. You don't need to get chunck yardage from them, just give the D another wrinkle to think about and slow down the rush.

True. But what I'm talking is more about the linebackers and safeties in terms of their run fits. how aggressive they are. if I'm a SAM or a nickel and I have Carter or Cotton on my side in a balanced situation down and distance wise, which one am i more apt to paying attention to in terms of pass defense? or allowing me to key run more? Same with a nickel/safety in the slot. Ala Westerkamp.

i know the Oline has to do a better job with Dline off the snap, but the opposing Dlines arent doing it by themselves. Tommy needs to show the ability to hit some big stuff down the field without Carter and Westerkamp before these run fits will be slowed. I think Westerkamps presence will do that to an extent.