Where We Rehash and Bludgeon the Joe Burrow Situation Over and Over Again Repeatedly

[Guy Chamberlin]

Was this the same LSU team that literally had half the amount of players drafted in 2021 as they did in 2020? 

Some teams are pretty special. 

It's difficult for any QB to put up the numbers Joe Burrow did in his national championship and Heisman-winning season.  In fact, no college QB ever had numbers like that in the history of stacked teams and stat-friendly offenses. Even harder to go to the NFL and put up big numbers for the worst team in the league as a rookie. 

I get it. Joe Burrow is the quarterback that got away, but also the quarterback who didn't appear to be a game-changer halfway through his college career. He is almost certainly a better quarterback than Adrian Martinez is or will ever be, but you can't blame Scott Frost for not knowing that given the 2018 landscape. Unprovable, of course, but a pretty reasonable assumption that Nebraska wins a few more games with Burrow, and Burrow doesn't win a Heisman with Nebraska's supporting cast. 

Defending Scott Frost doesn't require diminishing Joe Burrow. 

 

[Nebraska55fan]

It's difficult for any QB to put up the numbers Joe Burrow did in his national championship and Heisman-winning season.  In fact, no college QB ever had numbers like that in the history of stacked teams and stat-friendly offenses. Even harder to go to the NFL and put up big numbers for the worst team in the league as a rookie. 

I get it. Joe Burrow is the quarterback that got away, but also the quarterback who didn't appear to be a game-changer halfway through his college career. He is almost certainly a better quarterback than Adrian Martinez is or will ever be, but you can't blame Scott Frost for not knowing that given the 2018 landscape. Unprovable, of course, but a pretty reasonable assumption that Nebraska wins a few more games with Burrow, and Burrow doesn't win a Heisman with Nebraska's supporting cast. 

Defending Scott Frost doesn't require diminishing Joe Burrow. 

 The reason I got into this thread was because people were saying we had great QB depth. Because our coaches said so and If we didnt have good QB depth then we would have went into the portal.

What Im saying is those making the decisions on QB talent are doing a very poor job. Its their job to effectively and accurately evaluate QB talent. Joe Burrow didnt develop those insanely good skills overnight- he had them when we was transferring from OSU> Our people should have correctly evaluated him. 

There really isn't any evidence here at Nebraska that our staff has evaluated QBs correctly. In fact there are mountains of evidence that show the exact opposite. The miss on Joe Burrow was just the cherry on top. 

Please ANYONE show me empirical evidence of where any of our QBs have gotten better under Verduzco? In fact most have gotten worse.  Where have we been able to identify a lower ranked QB and he turned out to be really good?  Its comical almost. If you're related to Mario- my sympathies- they do amazing things with plastic surgery these days- but stop carrying his water. 

 

[Undone]

In the 2 years we could have had Burrow

Nebraska lost 6 games by 4-7 points

Nebraska lost 4 games by 1-3 points

Yeah Im guessing a first round NFL QB who won the Heisman couldn't have won any of those 10 ONE SCORE GAMES. Better QB play and even just fewer turnovers by a legit first round NFL QB wouldn't have won us ANY Of those 10 ONE SCORE games.

The pass protection in 2019 was unbelievably bad. Maybe Burrow would have been better at just tossing the ball into the crowd, but receivers weren't getting separation and there was rarely much time to scan the field.

Last year this area was a bit improved but receivers still struggled greatly to get open IMO, thus Adrian tucked it and ran it quite a bit to try to move the chains on his own.

If guys aren't getting open and the pocket collapses almost instantly, I kind of doubt Joe Burrow changes the Win/Loss columns by much. 

 

[JJ Husker]

 The reason I got into this thread was because people were saying we had great QB depth. Because our coaches said so and If we didnt have good QB depth then we would have went into the portal.

What Im saying is those making the decisions on QB talent are doing a very poor job. Its their job to effectively and accurately evaluate QB talent. Joe Burrow didnt develop those insanely good skills overnight- he had them when we was transferring from OSU> Our people should have correctly evaluated him. 

There really isn't any evidence here at Nebraska that our staff has evaluated QBs correctly. In fact there are mountains of evidence that show the exact opposite. The miss on Joe Burrow was just the cherry on top. 

Please ANYONE show me empirical evidence of where any of our QBs have gotten better under Verduzco? In fact most have gotten worse.  Where have we been able to identify a lower ranked QB and he turned out to be really good?  Its comical almost. If you're related to Mario- my sympathies- they do amazing things with plastic surgery these days- but stop carrying his water. 

Look, we get it. You’ve said it numerous times. We understand the point you are making. Now extend the same courtesy to others. Virtually everyone else in this conversation is saying hindsight is 20-20 and it’s a bit ridiculous to keep harping on it. You don’t have to agree but damn.

 

[Lorewarn]

Look, we get. You’ve said it numerous times. We understand the point you are making. Now extend the same courtesy to others. Virtually everyone else in this conversation is saying hindsight is 20-20 and it’s a bit ridiculous to keep harping on it. You don’t have to agree but damn.

I for one have not understood anything he has said and need a minimum of saying the same thing at least 6969 times before I'll get it.

 

[Nebraska55fan]

I for one have not understood anything he has said and need a minimum of saying the same thing at least 6969 times before I'll get it.

From your posts- I figured as much, You are very

W-E-L-C-O-M-E

 

[skers83]

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

The pass protection in 2019 was unbelievably bad. Maybe Burrow would have been better at just tossing the ball into the crowd, but receivers weren't getting separation and there was rarely much time to scan the field.

Last year this area was a bit improved but receivers still struggled greatly to get open IMO, thus Adrian tucked it and ran it quite a bit to try to move the chains on his own.

If guys aren't getting open and the pocket collapses almost instantly, I kind of doubt Joe Burrow changes the Win/Loss columns by much. 

It wasn't good, but it was far from unbelievably bad. The 2019 offense averaged 400+ yards a game in a healthy run/pass split. J.D. Spielman, Wandale, and Jack Stoll would have been welcome on any Husker team of the past 40 years. Frost deserves credit for getting Noa,  a good-looking transfer at WR who didn't do much with it. 

There were plenty of drop-backs where Adrian had time to plant his feet and scan the field. When he got flushed out of the pocket, it actually played to his strength as both a runner and improviser. In 2019, people weren't throwing the OL and receiving corps under the bus to explain the problem. The issue was Adrian's decision making, which seemed a lot shakier than it had his freshman year. At least that was the consensus of college football observers, Scott Frost, and Adrian himself.  The Huskers put up a lot of yards between the red zones, but had trouble in the red zone. That tends to go to play-calling. 

So it's true that QB development has been an issue for this staff, but Frost entire tenure has been built around Adrian Martinez. That includes starting McCaffrey over a healthy Martinez, then changing his mind. I happen to think the potential Martinez showed his freshman year is still there, and a lot of team-wide liabilities and distractions can be corrected. As mentioned, I think Martinez is in position for a great season. Frost, too. But yeah....it's up to Adrian and Scott to prove that QB development isn't a problem.  

 

[Undone]

@Guy Chamberlin: I think I'll still probably stick with "unbelievably bad pass protection" for 2019. As is the case in any season, some games were better than others but the Minnesota game sticks out as a great example.

We were fifth in the B1G in offensive yards per game in 2019, but were 9th in passing yards per game. Our rushing bailed us out to an extent.

Turnovers admittedly hurt us super badly - and some of those were definitely on Martinez. Atrocious special teams hurt, also.

 

[J-MAGIC]

@Guy Chamberlin: I think I'll still probably stick with "unbelievably bad pass protection" for 2019. As is the case in any season, some games were better than others but the Minnesota game sticks out as a great example.

We were fifth in the B1G in offensive yards per game in 2019, but were 9th in passing yards per game. Our rushing bailed us out to an extent.

Turnovers admittedly hurt us super badly - and some of those were definitely on Martinez. Atrocious special teams hurt, also.

The interior of our O-line was truly atrocious at pass pro in 2019. There was almost immediate rush up the middle in every obvious pass situation. It's the whole reason they moved Farniok to guard.

 

[Cdog923]

It's difficult for any QB to put up the numbers Joe Burrow did in his national championship and Heisman-winning season.  In fact, no college QB ever had numbers like that in the history of stacked teams and stat-friendly offenses. Even harder to go to the NFL and put up big numbers for the worst team in the league as a rookie. 

I get it. Joe Burrow is the quarterback that got away, but also the quarterback who didn't appear to be a game-changer halfway through his college career. He is almost certainly a better quarterback than Adrian Martinez is or will ever be, but you can't blame Scott Frost for not knowing that given the 2018 landscape. Unprovable, of course, but a pretty reasonable assumption that Nebraska wins a few more games with Burrow, and Burrow doesn't win a Heisman with Nebraska's supporting cast. 

Defending Scott Frost doesn't require diminishing Joe Burrow. 

What it comes down to is anyone trying to blame Frost for picking Martinez over Joe Burrow is invoking a heavy dose of revisionist history in an attempt to make a cheap point. Coming off of 2018, no one, dare I say not even LSU's coaching staff, knew what Burrow would do in 2019 (to the point where he wasn't on any preseason All-SEC team), and it's very easy (and mostly accurate) to say that a large part of his record setting season (season, not career) boils down to the historic amount of support he had around him. 

If Joe Burrow comes to Nebraska, he's not "Joe Burrow". There's no Heisman and he's not the #1 pick overall, because his 2019 season is nowhere near as historic as it was. 

 

[Nebraska55fan]

If Joe Burrow comes to Nebraska, he's not "Joe Burrow". There's no Heisman and he's not the #1 pick overall, because his 2019 season is nowhere near as historic as it was. 

No one here has said different. No one said he would have won the Heisman or been a first round pick here- the net is HE OWNED the skills to do so. 

Did you watch Joe play? I watched nearly all of his 2019 games- because I love watching great teams and players. He is very uniquely talented- his skills transcend whatever team he ends up on. His accuracy and decision making are right at the top of anything Ive ever seen in college football. 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

What it comes down to is anyone trying to blame Frost for picking Martinez over Joe Burrow is invoking a heavy dose of revisionist history in an attempt to make a cheap point. Coming off of 2018, no one, dare I say not even LSU's coaching staff, knew what Burrow would do in 2019 (to the point where he wasn't on any preseason All-SEC team), and it's very easy (and mostly accurate) to say that a large part of his record setting season (season, not career) boils down to the historic amount of support he had around him. 

If Joe Burrow comes to Nebraska, he's not "Joe Burrow". There's no Heisman and he's not the #1 pick overall, because his 2019 season is nowhere near as historic as it was. 

I agree with most of this, as already stated. I would just resist downplaying Joe Burrow's proven talent as a way of defending Scott Frost for making his perfectly defensible decision in 2018. Nebraska beat a ranked team with Matt Turman as starting QB, but that didn't mean Tommie Frazier wasn't a difference-maker.

And the lack of QB development isn't really a "cheap point." I won't go off the cliff with Nebraska55, but I have yet to see someone explain why this wouldn't be considered a disappointment and concern up to this moment. 

 

[Cdog923]

I agree with most of this, as already stated. I would just resist downplaying Joe Burrow's proven talent as a way of defending Scott Frost for making his perfectly defensible decision in 2018. Nebraska beat a ranked team with Matt Turman as starting QB, but that didn't mean Tommie Frazier wasn't a difference-maker.

And the lack of QB development isn't really a "cheap point." I won't go off the cliff with Nebraska55, but I have yet to see someone explain why this wouldn't be considered a disappointment and concern up to this moment. 

Yea, I think we're mostly on the same page here; it just needs restating for some. 

(Bulls in 6, BTW)

 

[Cdog923]

No one here has said different. No one said he would have won the Heisman or been a first round pick here- the net is HE OWNED the skills to do so. 

Did you watch Joe play? I watched nearly all of his 2019 games- because I love watching great teams and players. He is very uniquely talented- his skills transcend whatever team he ends up on. His accuracy and decision making are right at the top of anything Ive ever seen in college football. 

Yes. 

I also watched him in 2018, when barely any of that was true.