Why the option?

[zoogs]

I thought that was one of the things Texas had caught on to, the reads being predetermined. I don't remember, really.

 

[beanman]

if they (zone reads) were predetermined, why run them?

I thought they were predetermined all year

This is why I asked if people even watched the games last year in reference to the zone read. Go back and watch the first part of the season, pre-injury, and watch Taylor make the read off the DE. Watch how long he holds the ball in the RB's gut. He was making the read then, and it was only post-injury that the calls were predetermined. Mostly they were predetermined for Cody, who could not make the read. Many, many times the call from the booth was wrong, and Cody was never looked at by the DE, but he didn't pull it back and run with it.

He made the wrong reads a lot of the time Knapp. Even Brendan Stai pointed this out on several occassions(particularly regarding the K-State game IIRC). This was happening quite often pre-injury and he got away with it because we were playing soft Defenses. Holding the ball in the RBs gut doesn't necessarily mean he's making a read, it could be that he was just carrying out the fake to make the defense respect the RB. Maybe some of them were pre-determined prior to the injury... I had never thought of this but it certainly could explain a lot.

All I can say is: Thank God Watts is gone.

 

[Hercules]

I thought that was one of the things Texas had caught on to, the reads being predetermined. I don't remember, really.

Texas caught onto the fact that Taylor was making the read before the snap. The read wasn't predetermined, but during the first half of the season he was making the read before the snap instead of during the play. Muschamp and Watson both confirmed it after that game. I don't know if Watson told Martinez to make the read before the snap, or if he had just fallen into a bad habit.

After the Texas game, Martinez started making the read during the play, against both Oklahoma State and Missouri. I've heard a couple times that after his injury, reads were predetermined (so... they weren't really reads), but I've never seen any hard confirmation of that. It wouldn't be surprising, given Martinez's inability to make cuts with his injury, and we also already know that Watson didn't trust Martinez to audible either.

 

[knapplc]

if they (zone reads) were predetermined, why run them?

I thought they were predetermined all year

This is why I asked if people even watched the games last year in reference to the zone read. Go back and watch the first part of the season, pre-injury, and watch Taylor make the read off the DE. Watch how long he holds the ball in the RB's gut. He was making the read then, and it was only post-injury that the calls were predetermined. Mostly they were predetermined for Cody, who could not make the read. Many, many times the call from the booth was wrong, and Cody was never looked at by the DE, but he didn't pull it back and run with it.

He made the wrong reads a lot of the time Knapp. Even Brendan Stai pointed this out on several occassions(particularly regarding the K-State game IIRC). This was happening quite often pre-injury and he got away with it because we were playing soft Defenses. Holding the ball in the RBs gut doesn't necessarily mean he's making a read, it could be that he was just carrying out the fake to make the defense respect the RB. Maybe some of them were pre-determined prior to the injury... I had never thought of this but it certainly could explain a lot.

All I can say is: Thank God Watts is gone.

He wasn't running through the KSU defense to the tune of 16.1 yards per carry because he was making the wrong reads. I'd love to hear that quote from Stai saying he made incorrect reads in the KSU game, or in the Washington game (7.2 YPC), or Idaho (11.2 YPC), or SDSU (5.8 YPC), or W. Kentucky (18.1 YPC), or even Oklahoma State (5.9 YPC).

The guy averaged five yards per carry or better in seven of the twelve games he played in last year, and four of those he was banged up on at least one limb.

I'm not lying to anyone - we all saw how ineffective he was, how painful it was to watch, when he got banged up. We all know all the arguments against the success he had vs. the failure he had. None of us know if his failures were due to lack of skill, being a Freshman(ish) or if it was due to the defenses figuring him out. We'll find out what's what sometime around the Washington game this year, or maybe the Wiscy game. For all his flaws, for whatever reason, he is still a very talented football player. We are lucky to have that skill on our side.

 

[Foppa]

I would be *shocked* if there isn't a Brion/Braylon option package. Do I expect it? No. Do I look for it? Hell yes.

 

[Hercules]

I would be *shocked* if there isn't a Brion/Braylon option package. Do I expect it? No. Do I look for it? Hell yes.

They do have that pacakge. It's called the second string.

 

[knapplc]

Herc with the winner. Zing!

From the very limited action I was able to scope out last weekend, I think folks will be very pleased with Carnes. He looked a lot like Taylor looked last year, but then he's also a R-Freshman. He has legit skills, though, and if we can bury Tenn-Chatt quickly, I cannot wait to see Carnes on the field.

 

[Foppa]

I would be *shocked* if there isn't a Brion/Braylon option package. Do I expect it? No. Do I look for it? Hell yes.

They do have that pacakge. It's called the second string.

That designation has meant very little lately with the way the offense has functioned lately. We'll see.

 

[Foppa]

I would be *shocked* if there isn't a Brion/Braylon option package. Do I expect it? No. Do I look for it? Hell yes.

They do have that pacakge. It's called the second string.

And a 'package' doesn't mean 'starting' by the way. It's an option to keep defenses from learning exactly what the offense is constantly showing what it will do. Watson never learned this. The only changes he made was when he had to due to injury. The moment an offense stops being proactive, and becomes reactive, is when you lose.

1) Black 41 Flash Reverse

2) Will Shields fumblerooski

3) No back set vs. Texas A&M (didn't work great, but it was hilarious watching the Aggies trying to figure out what was going on. They never recovered)

4) Fullback trap vs. Miami (but only because Miami was keying on the oft-used option and ignored the triple option.)

It's called 'adjusting'. It's called 'thinking outside the box'. NU has a nice advantage this year of having a new OC, but don't think for a moment this is a NU offense from the 90's who had a line that could block anyone. At least not yet. And with that you need a few threads. Not just exactly what the opponent has been studying all week.

 

[Blackshirt316]

if they (zone reads) were predetermined, why run them?

I thought they were predetermined all year

This is why I asked if people even watched the games last year in reference to the zone read. Go back and watch the first part of the season, pre-injury, and watch Taylor make the read off the DE. Watch how long he holds the ball in the RB's gut. He was making the read then, and it was only post-injury that the calls were predetermined. Mostly they were predetermined for Cody, who could not make the read. Many, many times the call from the booth was wrong, and Cody was never looked at by the DE, but he didn't pull it back and run with it.

He made the wrong reads a lot of the time Knapp. Even Brendan Stai pointed this out on several occassions(particularly regarding the K-State game IIRC). This was happening quite often pre-injury and he got away with it because we were playing soft Defenses. Holding the ball in the RBs gut doesn't necessarily mean he's making a read, it could be that he was just carrying out the fake to make the defense respect the RB. Maybe some of them were pre-determined prior to the injury... I had never thought of this but it certainly could explain a lot.

All I can say is: Thank God Watts is gone.

Actually if you go watch the tape of the KSU game at one point after halftime the announcers were gushing about how well Taylor was running the offense and how he was making every read right and the sideline reporter actually corrected them saying Nebraska's staff was actually upset because Taylor was messing up a lot of the reads.

Taylor last year especially early was very similar to Lavonte David. David early in the year also had great games in terms of numbers and looked like a beast but kept getting yelled at for being in the wrong spot or making the wrong call. Both are such great athletes that when even when they mess up it can turn out pretty good so much so even if it wasn't right it looked like they did exactly the right thing just because they could adapt quickly with their speed. The difference is that when Taylor got hurt he lost that ability to adapt.

 

[Hercules]

I would be *shocked* if there isn't a Brion/Braylon option package. Do I expect it? No. Do I look for it? Hell yes.

They do have that pacakge. It's called the second string.

And a 'package' doesn't mean 'starting' by the way. It's an option to keep defenses from learning exactly what the offense is constantly showing what it will do. Watson never learned this. The only changes he made was when he had to due to injury. The moment an offense stops being proactive, and becomes reactive, is when you lose.

1) Black 41 Flash Reverse

2) Will Shields fumblerooski

3) No back set vs. Texas A&M (didn't work great, but it was hilarious watching the Aggies trying to figure out what was going on. They never recovered)

4) Fullback trap vs. Miami (but only because Miami was keying on the oft-used option and ignored the triple option.)

It's called 'adjusting'. It's called 'thinking outside the box'. NU has a nice advantage this year of having a new OC, but don't think for a moment this is a NU offense from the 90's who had a line that could block anyone. At least not yet. And with that you need a few threads. Not just exactly what the opponent has been studying all week.

Every offense should have wrinkles like the ones you're talking about. I still remember Osborne going to a 5 WR set with Frazier under center against Florida. He spread Stoops' defense out and then Frazier danced right up the middle of the field.

But a "Brion-Braylon option package?" Martinez is a running QB, and Burkhead is our top RB... and our offense is going to have some option involved, so what would be the point of that package? It's kind of like when people suggest we run the Wildcat with Burkhead, even when Martinez is healthy - why would we do that when Martinez is a more than capable running threat?

I'm all for thinking outside the box, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Martinez pitch to Kenny Bell who pitches to Jamal Turner who throws down the sideline to a wide open Martinez (Black 41 Flash Reverse). But a "Brion-Braylon" option package honestly just sounds like, "Hey let's put in the second string and do the same thing we do with our first string - the defense will never know what hit 'em!"

 

[Foppa]

I would be *shocked* if there isn't a Brion/Braylon option package. Do I expect it? No. Do I look for it? Hell yes.

They do have that pacakge. It's called the second string.

And a 'package' doesn't mean 'starting' by the way. It's an option to keep defenses from learning exactly what the offense is constantly showing what it will do. Watson never learned this. The only changes he made was when he had to due to injury. The moment an offense stops being proactive, and becomes reactive, is when you lose.

1) Black 41 Flash Reverse

2) Will Shields fumblerooski

3) No back set vs. Texas A&M (didn't work great, but it was hilarious watching the Aggies trying to figure out what was going on. They never recovered)

4) Fullback trap vs. Miami (but only because Miami was keying on the oft-used option and ignored the triple option.)

It's called 'adjusting'. It's called 'thinking outside the box'. NU has a nice advantage this year of having a new OC, but don't think for a moment this is a NU offense from the 90's who had a line that could block anyone. At least not yet. And with that you need a few threads. Not just exactly what the opponent has been studying all week.

Every offense should have wrinkles like the ones you're talking about. I still remember Osborne going to a 5 WR set with Frazier under center against Florida. He spread Stoops' defense out and then Frazier danced right up the middle of the field.

But a "Brion-Braylon option package?" Martinez is a running QB, and Burkhead is our top RB... and our offense is going to have some option involved, so what would be the point of that package? It's kind of like when people suggest we run the Wildcat with Burkhead, even when Martinez is healthy - why would we do that when Martinez is a more than capable running threat?

I'm all for thinking outside the box, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Martinez pitch to Kenny Bell who pitches to Jamal Turner who throws down the sideline to a wide open Martinez (Black 41 Flash Reverse). But a "Brion-Braylon" option package honestly just sounds like, "Hey let's put in the second string and do the same thing we do with our first string - the defense will never know what hit 'em!"

No, that's fair enough. I do believe that Martinez and Burkhead are the obvious starters, and a good combination. I would like to see what Brion can do to hit Braylon in the flats or a slide route just because I think his vision and arm is a touch better than Martinez's, and Braylon has amazing speed. No, don't want to rely on it, but maybe I just need to get the Watson offense out of my head where my buddies and I were calling the plays watching along on TV and getting it right, and you don't want armchair coaches to be able to do that haha. Should be fun though Hercules, and the future looks bright. GBR!!!

 

[Hercules]

I would be *shocked* if there isn't a Brion/Braylon option package. Do I expect it? No. Do I look for it? Hell yes.

They do have that pacakge. It's called the second string.

And a 'package' doesn't mean 'starting' by the way. It's an option to keep defenses from learning exactly what the offense is constantly showing what it will do. Watson never learned this. The only changes he made was when he had to due to injury. The moment an offense stops being proactive, and becomes reactive, is when you lose.

1) Black 41 Flash Reverse

2) Will Shields fumblerooski

3) No back set vs. Texas A&M (didn't work great, but it was hilarious watching the Aggies trying to figure out what was going on. They never recovered)

4) Fullback trap vs. Miami (but only because Miami was keying on the oft-used option and ignored the triple option.)

It's called 'adjusting'. It's called 'thinking outside the box'. NU has a nice advantage this year of having a new OC, but don't think for a moment this is a NU offense from the 90's who had a line that could block anyone. At least not yet. And with that you need a few threads. Not just exactly what the opponent has been studying all week.

Every offense should have wrinkles like the ones you're talking about. I still remember Osborne going to a 5 WR set with Frazier under center against Florida. He spread Stoops' defense out and then Frazier danced right up the middle of the field.

But a "Brion-Braylon option package?" Martinez is a running QB, and Burkhead is our top RB... and our offense is going to have some option involved, so what would be the point of that package? It's kind of like when people suggest we run the Wildcat with Burkhead, even when Martinez is healthy - why would we do that when Martinez is a more than capable running threat?

I'm all for thinking outside the box, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Martinez pitch to Kenny Bell who pitches to Jamal Turner who throws down the sideline to a wide open Martinez (Black 41 Flash Reverse). But a "Brion-Braylon" option package honestly just sounds like, "Hey let's put in the second string and do the same thing we do with our first string - the defense will never know what hit 'em!"

No, that's fair enough. I do believe that Martinez and Burkhead are the obvious starters, and a good combination. I would like to see what Brion can do to hit Braylon in the flats or a slide route just because I think his vision and arm is a touch better than Martinez's, and Braylon has amazing speed. No, don't want to rely on it, but maybe I just need to get the Watson offense out of my head where my buddies and I were calling the plays watching along on TV and getting it right, and you don't want armchair coaches to be able to do that haha. Should be fun though Hercules, and the future looks bright. GBR!!!

Darn tootin'! I can't wait to see Carnes play in a real game. Or Turner. Or any of the freshmen RBs. Saturday's gonna be a blast.

 

[AFhusker]

Every program in the country like us who has tradition and is at or even close to the 800+ ncaa win club has the tradition because of a heritage or a mantra or identity that works. Nebraska has never won a national title throwing passes. We have sucked trying to but never succeeded. Point is regardless of ESPN or anyone else's analysis ....they don't know husker football. They talk out of their rear ends and think they know but don't. See callahan experiment. We recruit well for speed option and power running. Not pro style anything. Pound the rock.

Not really.

I don't know what Oklahoma ran in the Wilkinson era, but it wasn't Switzer's wishbone, which isn't anything close to their passing offense these days.

Texas followed a similar path of change.

USC used to be Tailback U, but under Carroll they are much more balanced, if not pass oriented, and usually feature a QB ready to step right into the pros--unless he's Matt Leinart, who should've been ready.

Ohio State hasn't been "3 yards and a cloud of dust" in years.

These teams all evolved over the years, and sometimes made dramatic changes away from what they were. Osborne certainly evolved, as others pointed out. Anybody who thinks we had 25 years of power option is dead wrong.

What? 1980 - 2003 is pretty damn close to 25 years.

How often does NU get recruiting classes rated as high as Texas, Ohio State, USC & Oklahoma? Duh! Surely I don't need to type out why?

We tried being a "balanced" offense like everyone else under Callahan with truly massive disastrous results. How much total failure do you really want?

NU proved for decades we can run the ball with authority with some good rbs and well developed road-graders. Trying to "pretend" we can stand toe to toe with Ohio State, Texas, ect and play the same type of NFL offense is a losing game for NU. We've got our nitch, our identity, our tradition with smashmouth. We can win and win big with it. I think Bo will.

GBR!!

ps.....yeah Devaney won big without it due to two reasons...."Devaney" & the Jet. Imo, we haven't had anyone as good as the Jet since his last year (1972). Dudes like him don't grow on trees.

The offensive numbers we got from Osborne/Frazier/Frost and that OLine are just sick, so I didn't even look at them. I just looked at 1998 to the present.

We remember which years it seemed like our offense either wasn't in sync (or just plain smelled like feet) and which years it felt like we were productive. 400-ish YPG seemed to be comfortable. Measurably more than 400 YPG and we had a dangerous offense. Measurably less and we were poor.

Here's what we've produced year-by-year:

1998 - 385 (Solich w/Newcombe)

1999 - 398 (Solich w/Crouch)

2000 - 460 (Solich w/Crouch)

2001 - 451 (Solich w/Crouch)

2002 - 373 (Solich w/Lord)...weak

2003 - 345 (Solich w/Lord)....awful

2004 - 363 (Callahan w/Dailey)....stinkful

2005 - 320 (Callahan w/Taylor)....horrible

2006 - 415 (Callahan w/Taylor)

2007 - 468 (Callahan w/Keller)

2008 - 451 (Pelini w/Ganz)

2009 - 323 (Pelini w/Lee)....horrible

2010 - 398 (Pelini w/Martinez)

Production under Bo seems to have mirrored our production under Callahan: About the same as the year before he took over; horrible second year; quantum leap in offensive output in Year #3.

Our offensive improvement under BC seemed for all intents and purposes to be on the right track & sustainable. It was the defense that got us disgruntled, not the offense. (I, personally, was VERY gruntled with our offense)

Bo is going into his 4th year. He's got a returning QB for a change. If our offensive production can stay at the 400 YPG level, we'll be...meh, okay. But if it can climb to the 425-450 range, then I think with our defense, we could be contending for the B1G title.

But we can't fatten up against the Arkansas States and then only get 250-300 YPG against our quality opponents.

If we can keep it heading in the right direction, I'll feel a lot better about Barney & the OL. But if we regress back down to 350 or worse this year, especially against good teams, it will be very frustrating.

__________________

 

[beanman]

if they (zone reads) were predetermined, why run them?

I thought they were predetermined all year

This is why I asked if people even watched the games last year in reference to the zone read. Go back and watch the first part of the season, pre-injury, and watch Taylor make the read off the DE. Watch how long he holds the ball in the RB's gut. He was making the read then, and it was only post-injury that the calls were predetermined. Mostly they were predetermined for Cody, who could not make the read. Many, many times the call from the booth was wrong, and Cody was never looked at by the DE, but he didn't pull it back and run with it.

He made the wrong reads a lot of the time Knapp. Even Brendan Stai pointed this out on several occassions(particularly regarding the K-State game IIRC). This was happening quite often pre-injury and he got away with it because we were playing soft Defenses. Holding the ball in the RBs gut doesn't necessarily mean he's making a read, it could be that he was just carrying out the fake to make the defense respect the RB. Maybe some of them were pre-determined prior to the injury... I had never thought of this but it certainly could explain a lot.

All I can say is: Thank God Watts is gone.

He wasn't running through the KSU defense to the tune of 16.1 yards per carry because he was making the wrong reads. I'd love to hear that quote from Stai saying he made incorrect reads in the KSU game, or in the Washington game (7.2 YPC), or Idaho (11.2 YPC), or SDSU (5.8 YPC), or W. Kentucky (18.1 YPC), or even Oklahoma State (5.9 YPC).

The guy averaged five yards per carry or better in seven of the twelve games he played in last year, and four of those he was banged up on at least one limb.

I'm not lying to anyone - we all saw how ineffective he was, how painful it was to watch, when he got banged up. We all know all the arguments against the success he had vs. the failure he had. None of us know if his failures were due to lack of skill, being a Freshman(ish) or if it was due to the defenses figuring him out. We'll find out what's what sometime around the Washington game this year, or maybe the Wiscy game. For all his flaws, for whatever reason, he is still a very talented football player. We are lucky to have that skill on our side.

Here is an article where Watts says he could have made better reads against SDSU. Husker Extra

I'm also fairly certain Watts did not express any regret over pulling Taylor against Texas and even eluded to the fact that Lee made good reads on the zone-read play during that game and that Taylor struggled in that aspect.

I'll be damned if I can find anything from Brenden Stai regarding the K-State game. Maybe I'm nuts. But anyway, I'd be willing to bet over half his yards against Kstate weren't even off the zone read but off of scrambles or designed keepers. Of course I don't have this game on tape so this is just going off my memory.