Zac Lee will be the starter

[zoogs]

Did you try to make a table and ended up just posting up a picture?

I agree on the medical staff. Very questionable decision making there...

Basically, we have a quarterback in Lee who started all of last year for us, played his heart out and is in theory the most talented true quarterback on the team. On top of being a gutsy competitor who sucked it up and played through pain. It's really hard not to root for a guy like that! But me, I rooted for Keller and Dailey too. So maybe I don't have enough negativity about our starting QBs. I don't remember there being a starting QB I didn't root for really. So when Lee gets all this crazy message board vitriol, I think that's why you see a lot of people jumping to his defense.

Nobody is saying Lee is going to be a Heisman caliber QB this year or anything. I am saying he is a talent and the best we have, and I look forward to seeing him on the field this year. There's this camp, and there's the "He's probably not a superstar, so let's try every guy on the roster until we find one" camp. As if it's impossible for this O and its QB play to get worse. I'm not so sure people really understand how possible that is. As it stands, there is a lot more to commanding this offense than being fast and a good runner.

I'm not in the ''he's probably not a superstar, let's try everyone else on the roster" camp. I'm in the "the guy can't pass and the guy can't run camp." I'm not going to give him a break unless someone can show me where the ligament affecting his arm runs all the way down to his leg. And, you know what else, the guy didn't show any leadership either. You also need to show me where "commanding" this offense can be accomplished by a qb who has no leadership ability, no legs and no arm. :moreinteresting

OK - but I mean, if you think Lee can't pass, then why in the world are we pinning the hopes on two far lesser passers? Maybe you don't buy into that. But sometimes people are lost in the stars and the high school accolades and just don't want to believe that the game-winning, stat-compiling HS QB can't make all the throws a D1 college offense will ask him to (see Cody Green last year). The fact that Green had a WAYS to go in the passing game and as a QB surprised nobody but those who were expecting Vince Young part 2.

You aren't going to give him a break for not being a running back, though? But, he's not a running back. You make as if the ligament isn't a comprehensive explanation, but for something that affects a huge part of the QB's role in the O, I would say it is pretty comprehensive. Plus, as discussed frequently, Zac has serious wheels, just a 'look-downfield, pass-first' mentality. Which is not a bad thing. Why a lot of us continue to evaluate Nebraska QBs based on their running first, as if it were 1997, is a little strange to me. Sure, it's nice to be fast, but...I'll take a Zac Taylor over a Jammal Lord in this O.

And 'no leadership, no legs, no arm' - I really feel that's giving him far less credit than deserved. I think he has the team but that's as much speculation as you thinking he doesn't.

 

[kansas husker]

Why does Lee's game take so many questions despite overwhelming support from Bo and To. The people who watgh Lee play on a daily basis seem to think he has the talent, but I guess that is nothing we have seen Lee in 13 games. So when half this board xalls him a jr. high QB that must be the accurate description of his abilities

 

[Captain K]

If you read my posts, you will not see where I said anyone should start over anyone else. All I've said is Lee sucked eggs last year. I also don't believe the surgery will help him make huge leaps in his progress for this year. I say only that if he starts we will be well below average at qb. Maybe we make it up in other areas, maybe not. I'm going to cheer for whomever they put on the field, but if no one is better than the guy out there last year, most of that cheering will be in vain. :ahhhhhhhh

P.S. If you are a natural leader, you will exhibit that leadership from the outset. You don't need to develop it, which is not to say that it can't be developed, but the guy didn't show any last year. Maybe he took a summer school class on it.

 

[bshirt]

Did you try to make a table and ended up just posting up a picture?

I agree on the medical staff. Very questionable decision making there...

Basically, we have a quarterback in Lee who started all of last year for us, played his heart out and is in theory the most talented true quarterback on the team. On top of being a gutsy competitor who sucked it up and played through pain. It's really hard not to root for a guy like that! But me, I rooted for Keller and Dailey too. So maybe I don't have enough negativity about our starting QBs. I don't remember there being a starting QB I didn't root for really. So when Lee gets all this crazy message board vitriol, I think that's why you see a lot of people jumping to his defense.

Nobody is saying Lee is going to be a Heisman caliber QB this year or anything. I am saying he is a talent and the best we have, and I look forward to seeing him on the field this year. There's this camp, and there's the "He's probably not a superstar, so let's try every guy on the roster until we find one" camp. As if it's impossible for this O and its QB play to get worse. I'm not so sure people really understand how possible that is. As it stands, there is a lot more to commanding this offense than being fast and a good runner.

I don't believe "anybody" said we had to have a super star at qb. You're just putting words in people's mouths.

What myself and others are saying is that marginal to pathetic production from the all important qb position is simply not acceptable unless there are no other options available. This year w/Green & Martinez we do have options.

And yes, imo going with other options is very, very, very unlikely to result in worse production than last year. Worse than 99th in the nation in total offense? Worse than "5" 1st downs a game? Worse than 8 turnovers a game? Worse than 7 pts vs mighty Iowa State? Worse than 10 pts vs Texas Tech's great "defense"?? Worse than 15 pts vs VT? Worse than 10 vs Oklahoma? Worse than 17 vs powerhouse KSU? Worse than 12 vs Texas?

I don't think so. Let the best man win.

 

[knapplc]

I don't believe "anybody" said we had to have a super star at qb. You're just putting words in people's mouths.

What myself and others are saying is that marginal to pathetic production from the all important qb position is simply not acceptable unless there are no other options available. This year w/Green & Martinez we do have options.

And yes, imo going with other options is very, very, very unlikely to result in worse production than last year. Worse than 99th in the nation in total offense? Worse than "5" 1st downs a game? Worse than 8 turnovers a game? Worse than 7 pts vs mighty Iowa State? Worse than 10 pts vs Texas Tech's great "defense"?? Worse than 15 pts vs VT? Worse than 10 vs Oklahoma? Worse than 17 vs powerhouse KSU? Worse than 12 vs Texas?

I don't think so. Let the best man win.

What you're saying is that, despite the guy's injury, despite the fact that we played a decently difficult schedule, despite the fact that he was a first-year starter, despite the fact that he had a bad/injured O Line in front, despite the fact that we were often down to our third-string RB due to further injuries, despite the fact that his WRs had a bad case of the dropsies to the extent that two starters ended up being benched toward the end of the season, despite the fact that we almost entirely shelved our passing game later in the year due to said O Line issues, despite the fact that he played the bulk of the season with an injury that required surgery.......... despite all that, Zac should have done better, and because he did not do better, we should play someone else.

What you're saying is that we can discount all of the things in the above paragraph and lay the blame for our woeful offensive production squarely on Lee's shoulders, and someone else deserves a shot to do better.

This is why the majority of people in this and other QB threads see the "bench Zac Lee" argument as unreasonable. The guy put up with a LOT his first year. Cut him some slack.

 

[knapplc]

If you read my posts, you will not see where I said anyone should start over anyone else. All I've said is Lee sucked eggs last year. I also don't believe the surgery will help him make huge leaps in his progress for this year. I say only that if he starts we will be well below average at qb. Maybe we make it up in other areas, maybe not. I'm going to cheer for whomever they put on the field, but if no one is better than the guy out there last year, most of that cheering will be in vain. :ahhhhhhhh

P.S. If you are a natural leader, you will exhibit that leadership from the outset. You don't need to develop it, which is not to say that it can't be developed, but the guy didn't show any last year. Maybe he took a summer school class on it.

But the facts don't support your argument for "well below average." He was almost exactly average last year, in spite of a myriad of obstacles stacked against him. Look at my stats post in this thread and tell me where he should have done better.

For 25 years the benchmark of a good Tom Osborne season was nine wins. If nine wins were good enough for T.O., why aren't they good enough for Zac Lee?

 

[Husker Richard]

I think this off season QB issue stuff is just motivator for Zac Lee. Thats it, nothing else.

I agree that Lee will start the first game, but I wonder how much of this is head-game motivation stuff and how much is the real deal. They already benched Lee for two starts last year.

Motivation stuff or not, he won't have a long leash. Green will only be better this year than he was last year, and Martinez will get some snaps this year, guaranteed. Lee has to be sharp.

Was he actually benched or was he hurt and the coaches were trying to give him as much time off as they could to help his elbow heal?

this. and thank you for bringing that up.

Do you really think that an injury so severe that it would require surgery to repair was going to benefit all that much from a week off?

Rest helps. Do you think that the injury needed surgery at that point in the year?

Yes I do. A torn tendon is a torn tendon and more often than not, requires surgery. It wasn't going to heal itself by taking a week off and then subjecting it to the forces of throwing a football the following week (any recovery during the week off was immediately lost the minute Zac resumed throwing).

 

[BigRedPowerWagon]

You guys are talking about green like he proved something or showed something last year. The man was hyped up so much i half expected him to rise above the other football players and just will the football into the other players hands. From last years prespective he has alot of work to do before hes ready to lead the squad. If hes better then great but if hes doin last years crap then No scott no.

 

[mmmtodd]

If you read my posts, you will not see where I said anyone should start over anyone else. All I've said is Lee sucked eggs last year. I also don't believe the surgery will help him make huge leaps in his progress for this year. I say only that if he starts we will be well below average at qb. Maybe we make it up in other areas, maybe not. I'm going to cheer for whomever they put on the field, but if no one is better than the guy out there last year, most of that cheering will be in vain. :ahhhhhhhh

P.S. If you are a natural leader, you will exhibit that leadership from the outset. You don't need to develop it, which is not to say that it can't be developed, but the guy didn't show any last year. Maybe he took a summer school class on it.

But the facts don't support your argument for "well below average." He was almost exactly average last year, in spite of a myriad of obstacles stacked against him. Look at my stats post in this thread and tell me where he should have done better.

For 25 years the benchmark of a good Tom Osborne season was nine wins. If nine wins were good enough for T.O., why aren't they good enough for Zac Lee?

i think it's his haircut.

 

[deedsker15]

If you read my posts, you will not see where I said anyone should start over anyone else. All I've said is Lee sucked eggs last year. I also don't believe the surgery will help him make huge leaps in his progress for this year. I say only that if he starts we will be well below average at qb. Maybe we make it up in other areas, maybe not. I'm going to cheer for whomever they put on the field, but if no one is better than the guy out there last year, most of that cheering will be in vain. :ahhhhhhhh

P.S. If you are a natural leader, you will exhibit that leadership from the outset. You don't need to develop it, which is not to say that it can't be developed, but the guy didn't show any last year. Maybe he took a summer school class on it.

Some people, like me, lead by example. But if your injured and everyone else around you is playing hurt or injured it's hard to do lead by example when there is no one else around to help show what you can do. Peyton Manning still needs someone else to catch the ball for him to show how good he really is. Also, why do we comment on this kid like he is a talentless athlete? His father played in the pros. If anything, the only thing that has kept this kid from doing very well here is the fact he is injury prone. He had the major knee issue when he first got here and now the elbow thing. A buddy said two years ago he was more talented then anyone else on the roster and would probably be the starter after Ganz left.

 

[Captain K]

If you read my posts, you will not see where I said anyone should start over anyone else. All I've said is Lee sucked eggs last year. I also don't believe the surgery will help him make huge leaps in his progress for this year. I say only that if he starts we will be well below average at qb. Maybe we make it up in other areas, maybe not. I'm going to cheer for whomever they put on the field, but if no one is better than the guy out there last year, most of that cheering will be in vain. :ahhhhhhhh

P.S. If you are a natural leader, you will exhibit that leadership from the outset. You don't need to develop it, which is not to say that it can't be developed, but the guy didn't show any last year. Maybe he took a summer school class on it.

But the facts don't support your argument for "well below average." He was almost exactly average last year, in spite of a myriad of obstacles stacked against him. Look at my stats post in this thread and tell me where he should have done better.

For 25 years the benchmark of a good Tom Osborne season was nine wins. If nine wins were good enough for T.O., why aren't they good enough for Zac Lee?

Numbers alone don't tell the story. If wins or stats alone were the measure then you could argue that everyone on a 33-0 high school baseball team should get drafted to the pros over a 5 tool player that is on a 5-27 team. Or, a guy with crappy arm strength on a run based team, who throws the ball only when the defense should be looking run and has a 7-2 td to interception ratio is a great qb. As ridiculous as that sounds, your using stats to support Lee is just as bad. You base it on talent. I saw the guy play. We all did. He's not good. We need better to have the kind of year we all hope for. I don't know if we have better. I just hope we do. It is imperative. :snacks:

 

[junior4949]

I remember hearing the same complaints of Scott Frost during and after the 1996 season. Everyone was singing a different tune after the 1997 season. I'll reserve any judgement of Lee until after the 2010 season.

 

[knapplc]

Numbers alone don't tell the story. If wins or stats alone were the measure then you could argue that everyone on a 33-0 high school baseball team should get drafted to the pros over a 5 tool player that is on a 5-27 team. Or, a guy with crappy arm strength on a run based team, who throws the ball only when the defense should be looking run and has a 7-2 td to interception ratio is a great qb. As ridiculous as that sounds, your using stats to support Lee is just as bad. You base it on talent. I saw the guy play. We all did. He's not good. We need better to have the kind of year we all hope for. I don't know if we have better. I just hope we do. It is imperative. :snacks:

You're right, your post is ridiculous. The stats aren't lying. Lee was the QB of the team that demolished Arizona. He was a key component in that game, as he was in the Oklahoma game, the Virginia Tech game, the Texas game, the Missouri game, etc. I'm using dispassionate statistics based on mutually identifiable factors like pass efficiency and SOS, and you're using emotion.

Sorry, stats trump emotion every time.

 

[skersfan]

A lot of people can not even work with a sprained ankle. Having an injured throwing arm makes life for a QB very tough it would seem to me. His leading by example throughout the season was fantastic, he could have said, lets get it fixed now and turn the regiens over to Green, but something told him not to. Play hurt and do the best you can do, when all you have is an inexperienced freshman to lead the team. If Green had shown the Barkley level or the Garret level of play maybe it would have worked, but it seems to me he put the team above himself and gave far more than is normally asked of a player.

He has led by example in my mind. I think we will see a good QB in the fall. And I feel the team is truly behind him after his efforts in San Diego. Man among boys come to mind.

 

[zoogs]

As far as stats vs talent goes, I think we are a bit spoiled by the absolute video game stats Joe Ganz put up in 2008. I'm not sure people remember another gutsy JUCO QB named Zac's stats in his first season:

237/430, 2653 yds, 55.1%, 6.17ypa, 73 long, 19TD-12INT, 38 sacks, QBR 115.94

Yeah, that's Zac Taylor, who sucked it up behind a poor OL and earned the respect of everyone. Of course he was coming in after Joe Dailey (49%, 2025 yds, 17TD-19INT) and not Joe Ganz (68%, 3568 yds, 25 TD - 11 INT).

Now here's Zac Lee's stats once more:

177/302, 2143 yds, 58.6%, 7.10ypa, 74 long, 14TD-10INT, 18 sacks, QBR 126.89

In summary, much fewer attempts (by about 8 attempts per game), but the kinds of games we were playing were also much different. Less catchup and offenses trying to trade scores, and more stiff D and attrition. Attempts aside, he had sizably better QB Rating, ypa, and passing %, a lot fewer sacks despite another poor OL. The TD/INT ratio was noticeably worse.

But when you get down to it, those stats are still unimpressive. I agree with the 'talent' over 'stats' talk, because the stats speak for themselves, but only to an extent and do not tell the whole story. But that's not a strike against Lee - it actually runs in his favor, since Lee IS the best talent we have, while Green and Martinez are the ones who have to continue to rest on their laurels as 'guys who tore it up in tough HS divisions.' People went ga-ga over Green's production as a high school QB in Texas, and people continue to point out how Martinez was player of the year on a championship HS team. Big deal - none of that means they are passing talents yet.