BTN Analysts on Armstrong

And Beck under Pelini did suck. That seems to be an overwhelming majority opinion. Whether that was the fault of Beck, Pelini or the combination of the two is the real question.

Majority is not at all directly tied to accuracy. Time will tell. It was majority opinion that Shawn Watson sucked as well, and he's gone on to absolutely tear it up at Louisville and get hand picked as OC by Charlie Strong at Texas. I do guess that for both coordinators Bo Pelini had a big hand int hat, though.
Yeah, time will tell.

I may or may not agree that Shawn Watson sucked, but I wonder what your evidence is that he tore it up at Louisville. His offenses were respectable, but not exactly dominant and that was with Teddy Bridgewater as a QB (who went on to start in the NFL as a rookie) in a sub-standard conference. That is a little like saying Jim Harbaugh tore it up at Stanford. He actually did, but then he did it with Andrew Luck and he still didn't win a conference championship. And how did Watson do at Texas last year? Didn't exactly "tear it up," I'd say.

 
And Beck under Pelini did suck. That seems to be an overwhelming majority opinion. Whether that was the fault of Beck, Pelini or the combination of the two is the real question.

Majority is not at all directly tied to accuracy. Time will tell. It was majority opinion that Shawn Watson sucked as well, and he's gone on to absolutely tear it up at Louisville and get hand picked as OC by Charlie Strong at Texas. I do guess that for both coordinators Bo Pelini had a big hand int hat, though.
Yeah, time will tell.

I may or may not agree that Shawn Watson sucked, but I wonder what your evidence is that he tore it up at Louisville. His offenses were respectable, but not exactly dominant and that was with Teddy Bridgewater as a QB (who went on to start in the NFL as a rookie) in a sub-standard conference. That is a little like saying Jim Harbaugh tore it up at Stanford. He actually did, but then he did it with Andrew Luck and he still didn't win a conference championship. And how did Watson do at Texas last year? Didn't exactly "tear it up," I'd say.
What was that, Wats' 1st year @ Tejas? They're still hung over from the bad ol' Greg Davis days, and then that other guy: Applewhite? Tejas will be back in the mix soon enough under Strong and I think Wats' O will be a big hit with their fans and players.

 
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Shawn Watson and Tim Beck were both good offensive coordinators.

I liked their play-calling. Not as much when the plays didn't work, but that's football.

Keen observers may note that Nebraska 2014 had the #13 scoring offense in the nation and the #49 scoring defense. Maybe there's something in those numbers. I don't know. I'm not Steven Hawking.

Ah, but if only Beck had just kept handing the rock to Ameer Abdullah instead of trying to get "creative."

Or if only he had gotten MORE creative, shuttling in all those plays that work every time, according to HuskerBoard members.

Do you remember the near perfect game he called against Miami, or do you remember the three consecutive passes he called in the third quarter? You can't remember both. Gotta pick just one.

Remember when Taylor Martinez, Kenny Bell and Ameer Abdullah broke almost every major Nebraska career offensive record in a five year span by running all those stupid, clueless plays?

Remember when the Nebraska offense did everything quicker, better and nearly mistake free in the only game Tim Beck coached without Bo Pelini's input?

Urban Meyer isn't stupid, guys. He could have picked anyone.

 
Totally agree that Tim Beck showed up for the bowl game and that leads one to believe that the problem was Pelini, not Tim Beck, but then that is a really small sample size.

Tim Beck under Pelini did put up some big numbers that you cited, but then you get into the same analysis as with Pelini. What did he do against good teams? Not much. Some of that is definitely because the defense getting hammered put pressure on the offense and I definitely believe that Pelini contributed and/or caused a lot of Tim Beck's problems. How much, time will tell. Or maybe it won't. Beck isn't "the" OC at Ohio St, but a co-OC. And since he apparently isn't going to be calling plays, then I'd say he is OC 1(b) as opposed to 1(a).

Was Tim Beck even "ready" to be an OC at a Power 5 conference school. Didn't he have something like 5 years of college coaching experience when he was named OC? It seems to me that he greatest qualification was that he was a Youngstown guy like Pelini.

 
First, a question - can anyone show me a quote or proof that zone-reads were pre-determined before the snap of the ball? I'm not asking this to be argumentative - I'm asking because people seem to argue both sides - that the reads were and they weren't. Is it all just speculation either way?

In regards to the offensive line, they were average to above average during the Pelini tenure. The good rushing numbers we put out are evidence that they could be good, so, the line wasn't bad. The lines and the backs go hand-in-hand to an extent, but, I would say AA's ability definitely transcended that of the o-line. He had to dodge a lot of tackles in the backfield and make something out of nothing a lot, probably a bit more than he should have. And I for one heard plenty of former offensive linemen from Nebraska comment throughout the season last year that our line lacked good fundamentals and technique.

We also had a lot of recruiting and developmental woes along the lines. We had some decommits or misses, some guys lost to injury and some guys who just never really developed. How many people were in the boat with me that thought A-Rod had the tools/potential to be All-Conference? I know I did, and that never really proved to be the case. If these types of decommits, injuries, lack of depth, etc. happen occasionally, that's one thing. But, over a seven year period, that's a recruiting/coaching trend that needs to be fixed IMHO.
With regards to the OL, I don't think it was just last year where the group lacked good fundamentals and technique. It was pretty much over the entire time Bo was here that the OL lacked good fundamentals and technique. I'd even go one step further and say it goes all the way back to the Clownahan era which is pretty disappointing considering the OL is/was Clownahan's bread and butter.

With regards to A-Rod, anyone who ever saw the kid play in high school could have told you he'd be a flop. It was rather disturbing the sheer amount of plays he "took off" while playing high school ball. Why anyone would think he wouldn't carry the same laziness over to the college ranks baffles me. This is the area where I think Bo and group seemed to miss the most. They looked at players or recruits like they were in a beauty pageant. The ones who looked the part were the ones who got offers even though they didn't play the part. There was another kid from out here in SW NE that was being recruited pretty hard by Bo as early as when the kid was a sophomore. The kid had the looks. He definitely looked the part of a player. However, he had to be one of the laziest high school players I ever witnessed play ball. Thank goodness he didn't become a Husker. The last coaching staff either failed in how they judged recruits or they failed in how they chose to motivate recruits. Either way, the end result was the same with what appeared to be a lot of misses.

 
Shawn Watson and Tim Beck were both good offensive coordinators.

I liked their play-calling. Not as much when the plays didn't work, but that's football.

Keen observers may note that Nebraska 2014 had the #13 scoring offense in the nation and the #49 scoring defense. Maybe there's something in those numbers. I don't know. I'm not Steven Hawking.

Ah, but if only Beck had just kept handing the rock to Ameer Abdullah instead of trying to get "creative."

Or if only he had gotten MORE creative, shuttling in all those plays that work every time, according to HuskerBoard members.

Do you remember the near perfect game he called against Miami, or do you remember the three consecutive passes he called in the third quarter? You can't remember both. Gotta pick just one.

Remember when Taylor Martinez, Kenny Bell and Ameer Abdullah broke almost every major Nebraska career offensive record in a five year span by running all those stupid, clueless plays?

Remember when the Nebraska offense did everything quicker, better and nearly mistake free in the only game Tim Beck coached without Bo Pelini's input?

Urban Meyer isn't stupid, guys. He could have picked anyone.
Great analysis. I've never understood why the OC always took the brunt of the blame during the Pelini era. To some degree, I've always thought Bo's biggest problem at Nebraska was micromanaging everything.

 
And Beck under Pelini did suck. That seems to be an overwhelming majority opinion. Whether that was the fault of Beck, Pelini or the combination of the two is the real question.

Majority is not at all directly tied to accuracy. Time will tell. It was majority opinion that Shawn Watson sucked as well, and he's gone on to absolutely tear it up at Louisville and get hand picked as OC by Charlie Strong at Texas. I do guess that for both coordinators Bo Pelini had a big hand int hat, though.
Yeah, time will tell.

I may or may not agree that Shawn Watson sucked, but I wonder what your evidence is that he tore it up at Louisville. His offenses were respectable, but not exactly dominant and that was with Teddy Bridgewater as a QB (who went on to start in the NFL as a rookie) in a sub-standard conference. That is a little like saying Jim Harbaugh tore it up at Stanford. He actually did, but then he did it with Andrew Luck and he still didn't win a conference championship. And how did Watson do at Texas last year? Didn't exactly "tear it up," I'd say.
What was that, Wats' 1st year @ Tejas? They're still hung over from the bad ol' Greg Davis days, and then that other guy: Applewhite? Tejas will be back in the mix soon enough under Strong and I think Wats' O will be a big hit with their fans and players.
Right. Not sure the facts support your argument.

Point per game for Texas by year:

2014 (OC Watson): 21.4

2013 (OC Applewhite): 29.3

2012 (OC Applewhite): 35.7

2011 (OC Applewhite): 28.1

2010 (OC Davis): 23.8

2009 (OC Davis): 39.3

2008 (OC Davis): 42.4

2007 (OC Davis): 37.2

2006 (OC Davis): 35.9

2005 (OC Davis): 50.2

So Watson puts up the worst numbers at Texas in the last 10 years and somehow it is his predecessor's fault?

 
Shawn Watson and Tim Beck were both good offensive coordinators.
I disagree. They had their ups and downs but both were exposed by the better teams they played.

I liked their play-calling. Not as much when the plays didn't work, but that's football.
I found myself baffled many times by Beck's playcalling. I also liked some of it. He gave the ball to Ameer a lot, a wise decision, but I was not a huge fan of the way we ran the ball. Watson was the better of the two. You're last part you're just being arrogant. People here know that not every play is going to work. That wasn't what people were complaining about.

Keen observers may note that Nebraska 2014 had the #13 scoring offense in the nation and the #49 scoring defense. Maybe there's something in those numbers. I don't know. I'm not Steven Hawking.
How do the numbers look in big games, conference championships, or games againt the upper tier of divisional foes? Just curious. If I remember correctly, Nebraska reached two Big 12 Championship games. The offense scored 12 in one and 20 in the other. In the game which 20 points were scored, I believe Amukamara set up one of the scores with an interception return to the 1 yard line.

Ah, but if only Beck had just kept handing the rock to Ameer Abdullah instead of trying to get "creative."
Beck did hand the ball to Ameer and to Burkhead before that. Ran the wheels off them actually. Not complaining about the run game, I love it, like I said, I'd probably have liked if we ran it differently, but that's personal preference. One cannot live off the run game alone though. I didn't need Beck to get "creative" as you put it. Beck needed to develop a simple and efficient passing game that his QB's could execute when needed. It's not about numbers, it's about being effective when needed. Martinez and Armstrong struggled with many of the same issues for their entire careers. Maybe Beck could've been creative enough to develop his QB's and make their jobs a bit less complex.

Or if only he had gotten MORE creative, shuttling in all those plays that work every time, according to HuskerBoard members
It's not just Huskerboard members so let's not even try that nonsense. Beck's creativity hindered him too much. The problem was that when he created something that worked wonderfully, it seemed we were too quick to go away from it. It wasn't just people here making that criticism.

Do you remember the near perfect game he called against Miami, or do you remember the three consecutive passes he called in the third quarter? You can't remember both. Gotta pick just one.
You're listening to all the wrong people apparently. Anybody who says Beck didn't do anything right is full of it. Stop listening to them and you'll feel better immediately. That Miami game was beautiful. If I remember right, we lined up and ran it straight at them a few times and it worked. We quit doing it in the games to follow. The same with the diamond formation that worked. Or how about the option that Tommy executed beautifully to win the Michigan game on the final play. That ALL BUT disappeared.

Remember when Taylor Martinez, Kenny Bell and Ameer Abdullah broke almost every major Nebraska career offensive record in a five year span by running all those stupid, clueless plays?
What? Are we knocking T.O. or Devaney here? I don't get it? Records are falling all over college football every year. The game has changed, the rules have changed and the pace has changed. There's multiple articles written about it. Is Beck better than T.O. and Devaney because he broke their records?

Remember when the Nebraska offense did everything quicker, better and nearly mistake free in the only game Tim Beck coached without Bo Pelini's input?
The USC game is what I'm assuming you are talking about. That was a well played game by all involved save for the defense. The offensive line struggled a bit but they were up against a pretty damn good USC defensive line. Got to give them credit for scoring 40+ points, nobody saw that coming. I think people have been more than willing to give them credit for that one.

Urban Meyer isn't stupid, guys. He could have picked anyone.
I'm baffled by the decision. You're right, he could've picked anybody. He picked Beck. Obviously there's a reason for it. I'm not sure what it is, but like I said, Beck will be the one getting the education up there. He'll be better for it. It's a hell of an opportunity for his career. Still, being hired by Urban Meyer doesn't suddenly erase the chalkboard of his past. He made a lot of mistakes. I've mentioned many of them and there are more. He also did plenty right. What the effect of Bo Pelini was on Beck's production I don't know but it all happened, regardless of Meyer hiring him.
 
Did Tim Beck even have any swing passes in his playbook? Or conventional screen passes, or bootleg passing plays that could be converted into running plays if no receiver was open? There certainly weren't any conventional play action pass plays since the QB never took the snap from under center. Not having a complete playbook (like those sort of plays) is the biggest issue I had with Tim Beck. When our O line was decimated by injury the natural response to that is a bootleg or conventional screen pass, but we didn't even have those plays in the playbook....
Swing pass at 0:24

My issue was and still is this. It worked once and gets completely abandoned. i.e. The triple option at Michicken. Guy could call a decent play and then abandon it for fear "the other team expects us to do this again so I will not and then show the formation and they will think it will be that play but its not, its a play we have never run or failed to execute multiple times or since they are stacked with 11 in the box, I'm scared to go over the top....." Guy has potential as evidenced against USC. Of course they had like 12 scholarship players and TA could have thrown 15 picks had their DB's been able to catch..... You are not wrong on Beck. This is the same guy who put Martinez in the pocket against Michicken for TO after TO after TO. That might have been against Wisky. His horrific play calling is burned into so many crappy games....

 
In regards to the offensive line, they were average to above average during the Pelini tenure. The good rushing numbers we put out are evidence that they could be good, so, the line wasn't bad.

1.I would say AA's ability definitely transcended that of the o-line.

2.He had to dodge a lot of tackles in the backfield and make something out of nothing a lot, probably a bit more than he should have.

3. I for one heard plenty of former offensive linemen from Nebraska comment throughout the season last year that our line lacked good fundamentals and technique.

4.We also had a lot of recruiting and developmental woes along the lines.

5. We had some decommits or misses,

6. some guys lost to injury and

7.some guys who just never really developed.

8. If these types of decommits, injuries, lack of depth, etc. happen occasionally, that's one thing. But, over a seven year period, that's a recruiting/coaching trend that needs to be fixed IMHO.
Interesting. I've never seen someone call our offensive line "above average" and then list 8 reasons why they struggled.

 
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No one will get an argument from me that our line was not as good as we need it.
You were literally arguing this point with me yesterday. They were good enough as we needed against weaker competition, that's where those pretty stats come from. We only play 3-4 decent teams a year.
I've said from the turn of the century our OLine was the biggest thing holding us back most of the time.
So they're holding us back, or Tommy is?

I do think they've been better the last 5-6 years but that doesn't mean great by any means.
Better than who the last 5-6 years?

And I think they've been better than a lot of people give them credit for.
How can we know? They beat weak teams and got overpowered against good teams? So aside from watchiing the games and drawing an individual opinion, how do we know they're are better than people give credit for. Or is it simply that some people don't believe they are as good as YOU give them credit for.

You covered a lot of ground there. They were good enough, but not good enough. They were better than people give them credit for but not good enough to get any credit.

You simply can not have four of the Top 10 rushers in Husker history all sharing carries - two or three of those guys on the same team most of the time - and not be doing some things right up front. And the numbers that saunders posted yesterday backed that up.
What good did it do us? We lost four games every year. Were these the best Husker offenses? No. Were these the best Husker offensive lines? No. Are these the best Husker RB's? No.

Saying we were worse against the best competition proves nothing.
It says everything. We lost those games. We didn't rise to the level of competition in any season. We lost those games to better teams, and some to inferior teams. That says a lot.

This is literally true of every team in the country. We have been good enough to be dominant against the lesser teams but not good enough to be consistent against the top teams.
That's the problem. And let's be real here, we aren't talking about the best teams in the country. We're talking about McNeese St, Northwestern, Michigan St. Minnesota and Wisconsin plus a few others that gave our offensive line fits.

 
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First, a question - can anyone show me a quote or proof that zone-reads were pre-determined before the snap of the ball? I'm not asking this to be argumentative - I'm asking because people seem to argue both sides - that the reads were and they weren't. Is it all just speculation either way?

In regards to the offensive line, they were average to above average during the Pelini tenure. The good rushing numbers we put out are evidence that they could be good, so, the line wasn't bad. The lines and the backs go hand-in-hand to an extent, but, I would say AA's ability definitely transcended that of the o-line. He had to dodge a lot of tackles in the backfield and make something out of nothing a lot, probably a bit more than he should have. And I for one heard plenty of former offensive linemen from Nebraska comment throughout the season last year that our line lacked good fundamentals and technique.

We also had a lot of recruiting and developmental woes along the lines. We had some decommits or misses, some guys lost to injury and some guys who just never really developed. How many people were in the boat with me that thought A-Rod had the tools/potential to be All-Conference? I know I did, and that never really proved to be the case. If these types of decommits, injuries, lack of depth, etc. happen occasionally, that's one thing. But, over a seven year period, that's a recruiting/coaching trend that needs to be fixed IMHO.
With regards to the OL, I don't think it was just last year where the group lacked good fundamentals and technique. It was pretty much over the entire time Bo was here that the OL lacked good fundamentals and technique. I'd even go one step further and say it goes all the way back to the Clownahan era which is pretty disappointing considering the OL is/was Clownahan's bread and butter.

With regards to A-Rod, anyone who ever saw the kid play in high school could have told you he'd be a flop. It was rather disturbing the sheer amount of plays he "took off" while playing high school ball. Why anyone would think he wouldn't carry the same laziness over to the college ranks baffles me. This is the area where I think Bo and group seemed to miss the most. They looked at players or recruits like they were in a beauty pageant. The ones who looked the part were the ones who got offers even though they didn't play the part. There was another kid from out here in SW NE that was being recruited pretty hard by Bo as early as when the kid was a sophomore. The kid had the looks. He definitely looked the part of a player. However, he had to be one of the laziest high school players I ever witnessed play ball. Thank goodness he didn't become a Husker. The last coaching staff either failed in how they judged recruits or they failed in how they chose to motivate recruits. Either way, the end result was the same with what appeared to be a lot of misses.
You appear better able to speak to ARod's recruitment than I can. I remember him being described as a player who was just more physically dominant than his competition, meaning he would probably need some technique work. I don't think it's necessarily fair to classify some or even a good portion of Bo's recruits as beauty pageant contestants, but that's just me. There's a lot of guys who to me seemed like very hard working players. Perhaps ARod was, but, I don't think it was a prevailing theme.

 
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