Uh oh. Even coach Cav is calling out the OL.

[BoNeyard]

They "get" what needs to be done because their jobs are on the line next year.

 

[Stumpy1]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.
I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I wish people would stop posting pictures of fat O linemen and using that as a claim that they were out of shape and weak. O linemen are fat. Google "Alabama Offensive line" or "Wisconsin Offensive Line" or what ever line you think is awesome and you will find pictures of O linemen with a belly.
I would post the pictures but I'm mobile and don't have the time.

The difference between Bama and Wisconsin's OL and ours is/was strength. Our guys are/were just weak, plain and simple. I think this will change with Philipp and crew as they went back to more of a strength building routine. They are putting more focus on Olympic lifts for the players to build great strengthand explosiveness. A lot of that can be attributed to Tim Rabas, who at one time was a competitive lifter.

Has this been discussed in an article either recently or in the off-season? And is this new lifting regimen really going to be the difference between championship lines and what Nebraska has now?
Saying 'strength is the difference' is essentially saying strength will bring Nebraska back to the forefront of college football's best offensive lines. I don't buy it and I don't think that's the case. The difference between Nebraska, Alabama and some of the old Wisconsin lines isn't just strength. It's scheme, speed and most importantly fundamental ability. Alabama's line is just good. They play to the whistle, have really good technique and fundamentals, position themselves well and are confident in their abilities. Yeah, they're strong. But, strength doesn't get you very far in division one football. Everybody is strong, especially in the SEC.

I've listened to Vrzal critique our lines a lot over the last several years and I don't recall him ever saying strength was what was holding Nebraska back. He generally ripped into technique and fundamentals. Hell, some of the best NFL linemen didn't have great combine bench numbers or any of that.

I'm not discrediting that strength may be a concern or something to improve. Strength is a critical component. But, it's not Nebraska's biggest problem in my opinion. Spencer Long has not been the strongest linemen at Nebraska in the last several years but he was arguably the best.

Yes I am saying strength is the difference between us being where we are now and being dominate when it comes to our oline. You can have the best scheme or fundamentals in the world but if you don't have the necessary strength, you will get your butt kicked. I will try and find it but I read an article not so long ago that talked about Bama's OL and DL having competitions against each other in the weight room and it gets so heated that they start fighting. That is why they are usually the best year in and year out. I'm not saying strength is the only thing that is needed but it is probably the most important when it comes to OL. We have not had enough strong OL for some time and it has shown.

 

[Stumpy1]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.
I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I wish people would stop posting pictures of fat O linemen and using that as a claim that they were out of shape and weak. O linemen are fat. Google "Alabama Offensive line" or "Wisconsin Offensive Line" or what ever line you think is awesome and you will find pictures of O linemen with a belly.
I would post the pictures but I'm mobile and don't have the time.

The difference between Bama and Wisconsin's OL and ours is/was strength. Our guys are/were just weak, plain and simple. I think this will change with Philipp and crew as they went back to more of a strength building routine. They are putting more focus on Olympic lifts for the players to build great strengthand explosiveness. A lot of that can be attributed to Tim Rabas, who at one time was a competitive lifter.

That's fine. But, some people post pictures of them with bellies and claim...see...they are just fat. O linemen are fat.

Yep, I agree. Linemen are fat and that will never change. The difference is what they have under that fat that matters.

 

[Danny Bateman]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.
I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I wish people would stop posting pictures of fat O linemen and using that as a claim that they were out of shape and weak. O linemen are fat. Google "Alabama Offensive line" or "Wisconsin Offensive Line" or what ever line you think is awesome and you will find pictures of O linemen with a belly.
I would post the pictures but I'm mobile and don't have the time.

The difference between Bama and Wisconsin's OL and ours is/was strength. Our guys are/were just weak, plain and simple. I think this will change with Philipp and crew as they went back to more of a strength building routine. They are putting more focus on Olympic lifts for the players to build great strengthand explosiveness. A lot of that can be attributed to Tim Rabas, who at one time was a competitive lifter.

That's fine. But, some people post pictures of them with bellies and claim...see...they are just fat. O linemen are fat.

Yep, I agree. Linemen are fat and that will never change. The difference is what they have under that fat that matters.

Well, we know what he wasn't hiding under there.

Balance.

 

[Spooky Tooth]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I don't know, but Clownahan made a living as an OL coach for quite a while. What the OL did and became under his watch was probably the biggest disappointment of his tenure here. Another huge letdown was what we did with Bake Steinkuhler. He was a four star recruit as an OL, so of course we make him a DL.

Callahan wasn't the offensive line coach here. And last I checked he was still making a living in the NFL as an oline coach.

For the life of me I can't recall who his oline coach was.

Bill Busch?

 

[Elf]

Just like Bo wasn't the DC here? Are you interested in any ocean front property here in southwest Nebraska?

Bo most likely did have input into the defense but do you really think a HC has time to also be a position coach? I don't.

 

[Elf]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I don't know, but Clownahan made a living as an OL coach for quite a while. What the OL did and became under his watch was probably the biggest disappointment of his tenure here. Another huge letdown was what we did with Bake Steinkuhler. He was a four star recruit as an OL, so of course we make him a DL.

Callahan wasn't the offensive line coach here. And last I checked he was still making a living in the NFL as an oline coach.

For the life of me I can't recall who his oline coach was.

Bill Busch?

Maybe...

 

[Enhance]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.
I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I wish people would stop posting pictures of fat O linemen and using that as a claim that they were out of shape and weak. O linemen are fat. Google "Alabama Offensive line" or "Wisconsin Offensive Line" or what ever line you think is awesome and you will find pictures of O linemen with a belly.
I would post the pictures but I'm mobile and don't have the time.

The difference between Bama and Wisconsin's OL and ours is/was strength. Our guys are/were just weak, plain and simple. I think this will change with Philipp and crew as they went back to more of a strength building routine. They are putting more focus on Olympic lifts for the players to build great strengthand explosiveness. A lot of that can be attributed to Tim Rabas, who at one time was a competitive lifter.

Has this been discussed in an article either recently or in the off-season? And is this new lifting regimen really going to be the difference between championship lines and what Nebraska has now?
Saying 'strength is the difference' is essentially saying strength will bring Nebraska back to the forefront of college football's best offensive lines. I don't buy it and I don't think that's the case. The difference between Nebraska, Alabama and some of the old Wisconsin lines isn't just strength. It's scheme, speed and most importantly fundamental ability. Alabama's line is just good. They play to the whistle, have really good technique and fundamentals, position themselves well and are confident in their abilities. Yeah, they're strong. But, strength doesn't get you very far in division one football. Everybody is strong, especially in the SEC.

I've listened to Vrzal critique our lines a lot over the last several years and I don't recall him ever saying strength was what was holding Nebraska back. He generally ripped into technique and fundamentals. Hell, some of the best NFL linemen didn't have great combine bench numbers or any of that.

I'm not discrediting that strength may be a concern or something to improve. Strength is a critical component. But, it's not Nebraska's biggest problem in my opinion. Spencer Long has not been the strongest linemen at Nebraska in the last several years but he was arguably the best.

Yes I am saying strength is the difference between us being where we are now and being dominate when it comes to our oline. You can have the best scheme or fundamentals in the world but if you don't have the necessary strength, you will get your butt kicked. I will try and find it but I read an article not so long ago that talked about Bama's OL and DL having competitions against each other in the weight room and it gets so heated that they start fighting. That is why they are usually the best year in and year out. I'm not saying strength is the only thing that is needed but it is probably the most important when it comes to OL. We have not had enough strong OL for some time and it has shown.

Well, no offense meant of course, but I think I'd need to see something tangible to back it up before I'd buy in. It's hard for me to say strength is the problem when I've heard analysts through the years say the line's footwork, technique, fundamentals, body positioning and penalties have all been issues. Strength certainly has it's role and perhaps there does need to be some improvements, but to say it's the biggest one? Just not sure I see it when I'm able to see all the mental mistakes they make.

 

[Atbone95]

I'm going to bring the argument here because I'm sick and tired of ruining a recruiting profile. Can someone name me the last great in-state OL, walk-on or not, we started that was not named Spencer Long (an anomaly, for sure) and actually widely considered successful? That's our OL problem. We b!^@h and b!^@h that they aren't getting push against other B1G teams and then rant and rave about how we need to give more walk-ons and "farm boys" a shot on the OL. Are you f'ing kidding me?

 

[Mavric]

I would say the best "recent" ones are:

Ricky Henry

Josh Sewell

Rush Hochstein

 

[Hunter94]

Sounds like what it comes down to, is we haven't had the staff or S/C coaches to build or train these kids, in a long time. Which is it ?

GBR!!!

I personally have struggled with understanding this myself. I really don't think a lacking S&C department has been the team's greatest downfall over the last 10-15 years. A lot of people locally and around the country had worked with the previous staff's S&C guy - Dobson - and had really good things to say about him.
I think some of the bigger factors at play have been in the recruiting and coaching realms. I have a lot of thoughts on these, but to summarize the first part, I think recent coaches have either missed out on bringing in recruits that could've made an impact or the recruits they did bring in never reached the potential fans and even coaches had for them. I don't like to call out individual players, but Andrew Rodriguez is a guy I look at here. A highly touted four star from Nebraska that appears, at best, to have made Honorable Mention All Big Ten team. And in terms of players the university has missed out on, Andrus Peat is a big name who is now in the NFL.

From a coaching perspective, I don't know if our technique/fundamentals ever really reached a consistent level either. I also don't think Nebraska has had a solid identity in years. It seemed like a lot of guys just weren't developing on the line or making the improvement you'd like to see. In my opinion, when your best offensive lineman in recent history is a former walk-on and nobody else even really holds his jock strap, that's a failure from the top down. The line needs to be better. That's not meant to disrespect Spencer Long, either. But, the Huskers really aren't in a position to rely on hoping against hope that their walk-ons will turn into potential All-Americans.

I agree with much of what you say. I just wanted to reply in regard to the S&C is that it wasn't know-how that caused S&C to slip under Dobson imo, it was accountability. That starts with the HC. If the HC doesn't discipline or kick guys off the team that aren't busting their butt in S&C workouts then it takes the authority away from the S&C coach. Guys know they can coast without repercussions.

I believe that's why you saw a guy like Jake Cotton go from an agile, athletic OL early in his career to the less agile athlete he became by his senior year.

And why Kenny Bell put on 15 lbs of muscle in 2 months before the combine, instead of doing it in his 5 years here.

I wish people would stop posting pictures of fat O linemen and using that as a claim that they were out of shape and weak. O linemen are fat. Google "Alabama Offensive line" or "Wisconsin Offensive Line" or what ever line you think is awesome and you will find pictures of O linemen with a belly.
I would post the pictures but I'm mobile and don't have the time.

The difference between Bama and Wisconsin's OL and ours is/was strength. Our guys are/were just weak, plain and simple. I think this will change with Philipp and crew as they went back to more of a strength building routine. They are putting more focus on Olympic lifts for the players to build great strengthand explosiveness. A lot of that can be attributed to Tim Rabas, who at one time was a competitive lifter.

Has this been discussed in an article either recently or in the off-season? And is this new lifting regimen really going to be the difference between championship lines and what Nebraska has now?
Saying 'strength is the difference' is essentially saying strength will bring Nebraska back to the forefront of college football's best offensive lines. I don't buy it and I don't think that's the case. The difference between Nebraska, Alabama and some of the old Wisconsin lines isn't just strength. It's scheme, speed and most importantly fundamental ability. Alabama's line is just good. They play to the whistle, have really good technique and fundamentals, position themselves well and are confident in their abilities. Yeah, they're strong. But, strength doesn't get you very far in division one football. Everybody is strong, especially in the SEC.

I've listened to Vrzal critique our lines a lot over the last several years and I don't recall him ever saying strength was what was holding Nebraska back. He generally ripped into technique and fundamentals. Hell, some of the best NFL linemen didn't have great combine bench numbers or any of that.

I'm not discrediting that strength may be a concern or something to improve. Strength is a critical component. But, it's not Nebraska's biggest problem in my opinion. Spencer Long has not been the strongest linemen at Nebraska in the last several years but he was arguably the best.

Yes I am saying strength is the difference between us being where we are now and being dominate when it comes to our oline. You can have the best scheme or fundamentals in the world but if you don't have the necessary strength, you will get your butt kicked. I will try and find it but I read an article not so long ago that talked about Bama's OL and DL having competitions against each other in the weight room and it gets so heated that they start fighting. That is why they are usually the best year in and year out. I'm not saying strength is the only thing that is needed but it is probably the most important when it comes to OL. We have not had enough strong OL for some time and it has shown.

Well, no offense meant of course, but I think I'd need to see something tangible to back it up before I'd buy in. It's hard for me to say strength is the problem when I've heard analysts through the years say the line's footwork, technique, fundamentals, body positioning and penalties have all been issues. Strength certainly has it's role and perhaps there does need to be some improvements, but to say it's the biggest one? Just not sure I see it when I'm able to see all the mental mistakes they make.

i agree, our kids miss a lot of assignments..........and too often penalized too.

 

[caveman99]

I would say the best "recent" ones are:

Ricky Henry

Josh Sewell

Rush Hochstein

There are also several that didn't go to NU that turned out to be really nice players. I am having trouble pulling up names on my phone, will try later. There is decent O-Line talent in NE, can't make a living on recruiting it alone but you can get 1-2 each year IMO and should hit more than not.

 

[Danny Bateman]

Trevor Robinson was a big miss back in the day. Bo's first class, left for Notre Dame when Cally was fired.

 

[FeelLikeAStranger]

Dennis Wagner was the OL coach under Callahan. Came here with a good resume and underwhelmed. Callahan was a famous micromanager on the OL. Wagner's parting comments were telling, as I recall.

 

[Atbone95]

I would say the best "recent" ones are:

Ricky Henry

Josh Sewell

Rush Hochstein

And for those, I could name you endless "farm boys" who struck out repeatedly, week after week.