suh_fan93
Heisman Trophy Winner
I added the bolded part for you. USC remained #1 in the AP poll that year. This was also the same year that LSU lost to unranked Florida.
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Carriker Chronicles - Osborne vs. Saban - Who's the Best?
- Thread starter ajt1970
- Start date
I added the bolded part for you. USC remained #1 in the AP poll that year. This was also the same year that LSU lost to unranked Florida.
husker_fan_from_sweden
Starter
Better track record? Saban
More dominant? Osborne
More dominant? Osborne
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Landlord
Banned
Saban was obviously in people's discussions at LSU, and even at MSU. He doesn't get hired at LSU without being an impressive up and comer, and he doesn't get hired for an NFL head coaching job, or win a national championship, without being in plenty of discussions at LSU.
Regardless of that, recruiting is part of the overall package of being a head coach. He came into Bama when they had averaged 6.5 wins over the previous four years, and he turned that program around. Tom Osborne took over a juggernaut that was one year removed from a national championship. It's not Saban's fault he had to work his way up while Osborne was gifted the keys to the biggest kingdom from day one.
@B.B. Hemingway nailed it. Imagine Saban as Nebraska's coach and Osborne as Alabama's coach, and see if you would still think Osborne was better. The answer is you wouldn't, even for a second.
I really don't see how that's relevant at all, but in the sake of context and data, Saban's recruiting classes at LSU were ranked #2, #21, #3, and #4.
When Bob Devaney was at Wyoming he went 0-2 against Ben Martin at Air Force. So I guess Ben Martin, who went 96-103 in 20 seasons at Air Force, is better than two time national champion Bob Devaney?
Bottom line is Saban (at Bama, a blue blood, and the closest comparison as far as opportunity) has a better win percentage, more national championships in a shorter time frame, averages 1 conference championship per every 2.2 years (Osborne 1 per every 2.1, but with a huge disclaimer that includes co/shared championships), has been the dominant coach that everyone fears and that has completely changed the landscape of the entire sport. Osborne went 1-9 against Oklahoma in his first 9 seasons.
For the record, I would take Osborne over Saban every time, because of the intangibles, the integrity, the attitude and the ethic he brought to his craft. But if you're going by metrics, there's not an argument to be found other than Osborne did it longer.
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Huskers93-97
All-American
Few things to consider in this is that everyone needs to look at the whole resume. Osborne held consistent success competing at a high level for 25 years and he retired relatively early. He retired when he has his team humming at an all time high- the difference is now that Saban has his team humming at an all time high he is continuing to go. If Tom didnt retire how many more titles would they have won in the next 5-10? Saban's early career had some 5 and 6 win seasons. So its a tough discussion- Saban's low's have been lower than Osborne's. Also Saban has not been at a high level for 25 years. Also the elite level Saban is at right now he has been doing for 8 years or so- Tom was there for 5 years then retired- I would tend to believe Husker Train would have kept rolling with Tom at the helm. Recruiting would have kept going- Tom was a much better play caller etc.
Nebfanatic
All-American
Saban no discussion. Saban will be called the greatest of all time when he hangs it up and any arguments to the contrary will be homer picks. Osborne is on Mt. Rushmore but Sabans rings can't be argued with.
Huskers93-97
All-American
I dont dispute around the country it will be all Saban. My only point is Osborne hung it up in his prime at age 60. Saban is 66 now. If Saban retired in his prime like osborne did 6 years ago he would have 3 less titles to his name. Just saying there is a good argument that osborne would have added to his resume if he didnt hang it up so early.
Kind of like Barry Sanders vs Emmitt Smith. If Sanders wouldnt have retired Smith would have never come close to all time yards.
I have to agree with the prevailing thought here - Saban will go down as the better coach and the résumés matter in this discussion. Six national championships, seven appearances and all within the last ~15 years. The dude is phenomenal.
Two points worth noting, though. First, I think TO accomplished a lot with less natural advantages. TO recruited at a pretty high level but, had recruiting rankings been around at the time, he would not have been pulling in #1 classes year after year.
Second, for how great Saban has been (and he truly has been great), there isn't a single Alabama team he's produced that I would put in the conversation of 'best team of all time.' He's had some great and powerful teams, but you don't often see people comparing them to the '05 Longhorns, '01 Canes, '95 Huskers, etc. I don't know if this is necessarily a detriment or something negative about Saban, but it's interesting nonetheless.
Two points worth noting, though. First, I think TO accomplished a lot with less natural advantages. TO recruited at a pretty high level but, had recruiting rankings been around at the time, he would not have been pulling in #1 classes year after year.
Second, for how great Saban has been (and he truly has been great), there isn't a single Alabama team he's produced that I would put in the conversation of 'best team of all time.' He's had some great and powerful teams, but you don't often see people comparing them to the '05 Longhorns, '01 Canes, '95 Huskers, etc. I don't know if this is necessarily a detriment or something negative about Saban, but it's interesting nonetheless.
Nebfanatic
All-American
As time goes on that will matter less and less. He didn"t keep going plain and simple. He could have and it likely would have made this a better argument, but you can't make these distinctions on what could have been. If we are owners picking teams starting with a head coach I would pick Osborne. Doesn't mean he had a better career.
Huskers93-97
All-American
Is everyone considering his so so first half of his career? I know the last half has been phenomenal. But he was just ok his first half.
Osborne was pretty phenomenal for 25 years. Competed for national titles in 3 decades. His team was a top 10 caliber team for 25 years.
Nebfanatic
All-American
Saban won his first National title in year 8. Osborne year 20 after taking over an already elite team. So so first half of his career? He turned around a terrible MSU program under NCAA sanctions and went 9-2 in year 4 after MSU hadn't had a winning season for 5 straight years prior to his arrival. Won a CC in year 2 at LSU and a NC in year 4. Had Alabama rolling in year 2. He has been a great college coach everywhere he has been.
suh_fan93
Heisman Trophy Winner
TO with Alabama's location and recruitment pool would've been a scary, scary force. That's not to downplay the work Saban has done - bad coaches have come through Alabama and failed to succeed with that talent. But, it certainly doesn't hurt Saban's ceiling.
suh_fan93
Heisman Trophy Winner
TO had to develop players. He had good recruiting classes but nothing like the Bama's, Ohio States and Georgia's of now pull in every single year. He was also an excellent strategist/game planner too I might add.
Again I'll take TO all day....
RedRedJarvisRedwine
All-American
How many times did Osborne’s teams finish the season in the top 4? Putting them in the 4 team playoff. Obviously using the most important part of today’s system being the 4 team playoff. How many times would’ve Alabama been denied even a chance to play for the title using the old conference affiliated bowl system were it still in place today?
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RedRedJarvisRedwine
All-American
I’m not saying Osborne is the better coach. To me it’s wrong to even debate that. The question should be who’s having/had a better run. That answer is obviously Saban.