Education

[Mierin]

There are always places that you can cut taxes. This is never going to change. It all comes down to priorities, but where does it stop? What if we all were given free housing? What if we never had to pay for gas again?  I hope this is not coming off as me trying to argue, I'm simply trying to add to the conversation.

It’s ok to argue

Where do we stop increasing military spending? 5x as much as 2nd place? 10x? Where do we stop subsidizing junk food that’s increasing health care costs?

Right now our spending and revenue cuts seem to go in favor of helping out the wealthiest people, and when we talk about giving a little to normal people, or God forbid the poorest people, e.g. food stamps, the pissing and moaning is deafening. (Not saying you’re doing this).

 

[SandhillshuskerW]

It’s ok to argue

Where do we stop increasing military spending? 5x as much as 2nd place? 10x? Where do we stop subsidizing junk food that’s increasing health care costs?

Right now our spending and revenue cuts seem to go in favor of helping out the wealthiest people, and when we talk about giving a little to normal people, or God forbid the poorest people, e.g. food stamps, the pissing and moaning is deafening. (Not saying you’re doing this).

I agree, I feel like we are spending way too much as a country in a lot of areas. I am just of the mindset that I don't want to add another area where we would have to spend more taxes. If we could find a way to get these funds without raising taxes, then by all means lets get it done. You might open up a whole deal with many other areas though that would look to get government funding as well. 

 

[Mierin]

I agree, I feel like we are spending way too much as a country in a lot of areas. I am just of the mindset that I don't want to add another area where we would have to spend more taxes. If we could find a way to get these funds without raising taxes, then by all means lets get it done. You might open up a whole deal with many other areas though that would look to get government funding as well. 

One thing I will say is health care is a far bigger priority and I don’t think anyone should even try with education until everyone can get health care. 

 

[SandhillshuskerW]

One thing I will say is health care is a far bigger priority and I don’t think anyone should even try with education until everyone can get health care. 

I agree

 

[Landlord]

You do hit on an important topic.  Technology is a major part of education right now....and a very important one.  Our students should be working with the latest and greatest.  That all takes more money and infrastructure than when I was in college.  That same wifi that you mention, is used for students to actually do their studies.

I'm not sure if I agree with this. There's a higher demand for more and more powerful technology, sure, but that technology increase is pretty proportionate to technology getting cheaper.

When did you go to college? I guarantee your school either had some personal computers or a big "super" computer that cost more than a few dozen ipads did at the time. The demand that technology creates and the increase in efficiency and effectiveness that it brings come pretty close to canceling each other out, imo.

 

[Fru]

 Very much so in my opinion. College costs would come down quite a bit if you didn't have to take pointless classes. 

I agree that society would benefit if we all had access to a college degree, but where is that money coming from? It would obviously have to come from taxes. How are you going to figure out who pays taxes on which college? Would it be based on states, counties or the whole U.S.? If it was based on states, more people would probably move to states that didn't have many colleges because taxes would be lower there. Why would you live in a state like Texas if you have to pay taxes on all of those colleges?

It could come from plenty of places. We find ways to finance trillion dollar wars. I think we could find a way for this. Publicly funded college is something that has previously  existed in the US, and is currently prevalent through out the developed world. If paying a little extra in taxes improves society as a whole, it would arguably reduce costs that we incur in other areas.  

 

[NM11046]

Two things:

1. Thanks to all the teachers posting on this thread - your work is important and (imo) never recognized enough
   
2. I'm enjoying the dialogue - good stuff
   

Carry on ...

 

[jaws]

I'm not sure if I agree with this. There's a higher demand for more and more powerful technology, sure, but that technology increase is pretty proportionate to technology getting cheaper.

When did you go to college? I guarantee your school either had some personal computers or a big "super" computer that cost more than a few dozen ipads did at the time. The demand that technology creates and the increase in efficiency and effectiveness that it brings come pretty close to canceling each other out, imo.

I work in IT and I am not sure what you are talking about. Tell Oracle, Cisco, and Apple (just to name a few) their products and service contracts should be getting cheaper over time. Also, sometimes technology can create inefficient processes that cost more money in the end. 

 

[Landlord]

Tell Oracle, Cisco, and Apple (just to name a few) their products and service contracts should be getting cheaper over time. 

There's no 'should', there's just 'does'.

Does a 2008 macbook pro cost more or less than it did when it was new? Does a 2018 Macbook Pro cost more or less than an average personal computer in 1990? If they cost roughly the same respective to their times, is there more value and efficiency and capability for the same price point? 

 

[jaws]

There's no 'should', there's just 'does'.

Does a 2008 macbook pro cost more or less than it did when it was new? Does a 2018 Macbook Pro cost more or less than an average personal computer in 1990? If they cost roughly the same respective to their times, is there more value and efficiency and capability for the same price point? 

I think you are missing my point. The overall cost of doing business is more per student now than in the past. I work in higher education IT and have a decent grasp on this. This isn't just in IT, it is all over campus. There are more services offered on a college campus now than in the past.

 

[Landlord]

I think you are missing my point. The overall cost of doing business is more per student now than in the past. I work in higher education IT and have a decent grasp on this. This isn't just in IT, it is all over campus. There are more services offered on a college campus now than in the past.

I understand there are more services offered. My assertion was that the increase of services is still contained within roughly the same amount of cost. 

In 1991 a Macintosh Powerbook costed (adjusting for inflation) $4,247. In 2018 a base 13" Macbook Pro costs $1,250. For 1/4 of the price relative to the time, the macbook pro offers a TON more functionality and services that the Powerbook did not. 

Similarly, in 1991 $1,000 might have bought you a few hundred megabytes of server space. Now, $1,000 will buy you several terabytes, or thousands of times more space.

In 2005 wireless technology would have cost ____ more per square foot of coverage compared to now. 

We keep offering more services, but the cost of implementing those services also goes down as technology progresses. I'm talking theoretically so if you have practical examples of how I'm missing something please let me know.

 

[JJ Husker]

Yeah, universities spend money on WiFi, technology etc, but I have a hard time believing those are contributing more than a drop in the bucket to what they charge students. I supply bandwidth, WiFi and devices at my home, enough for over 4 people hammering it with multiple devices. If I divide my cost by 4 people over a year, let me tell ya, it ain’t a blip on the radar compared to the $46k ($32k ish in state) annual cost of attendance at UNL.

It it may be an expense for schools that wasn’t there 20-30 years ago, or even 10 years ago, but that isn’t the place to start looking to get costs in line imo. And if a school wants to cut back on amenities like that, large suite style rooms etc., go ahead, there’s nothing stopping them except new student demand and needing to compete with other schools. UNC in my hometown has all that stuff, just as good as UNL does, but cost of attendance there is probably a 1/3 of what it is at UNL. So I don’t believe those are the items driving costs through the roof.

 

[BigRedBuster]

I'm not sure if I agree with this. There's a higher demand for more and more powerful technology, sure, but that technology increase is pretty proportionate to technology getting cheaper.

When did you go to college? I guarantee your school either had some personal computers or a big "super" computer that cost more than a few dozen ipads did at the time. The demand that technology creates and the increase in efficiency and effectiveness that it brings come pretty close to canceling each other out, imo.

Lolololololololololol

:laughpound :laughpound

we we did have spiroll notebooks and #2 pencils.  Oh....and type writers. 

 

[RedDenver]

Here's an article detailing how state cuts of higher education (particularly during a recession) have resulted in students paying more and more of the costs of college and the state paying less and less.

 

[RedDenver]

Some other considerations for whether and how much we should fund colleges are taxpayer benefits and benefits to local economies:

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9461/index1.html

RAND researchers examined how taxpayers benefit from increases in students' educational attainment. Using statistical modeling and national data, they analyzed how increases in educational attainment are associated with tax revenues, funds for social support and insurance programs, and spending on incarceration. The researchers found that, for all racial/ethnic groups, an increase in a student's educational attainment — for example, completing high school rather than dropping out — is associated with substantial value for taxpayers over time.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/what-colleges-do-for-local-economies-a-direct-measure-based-on-consumption/

With these benefits in mind, this brief finds the following:

• The average bachelor’s degree holder contributes $278,000 more to local economies than the average high school graduate through direct spending over the course of his or her lifetime; an associate degree holder contributes $81,000 more than a high school graduate.
  
• The quality of colleges greatly affects the size of these benefits. High value-added four-year colleges contribute $265,000 more per student to local economies than low-value added four-year colleges. The contribution is $184,000 for high value-added two-year colleges.
  
• Sixty-eight percent of alumni from two-year colleges remain in the area of their college after attending, compared to 42 percent of alumni from four-year colleges. High-value added colleges are no more or less likely to retain students in their metropolitan area.
  
• State and local governments, as well as their taxpayers, have a very strong incentive to boost college attendance and completion, especially at higher quality institutions. Risk-sharing of federal student loans—based on value-added principles—is one promising approach to promoting greater economic returns for students and taxpayers.