Political DBag Hall of Fame

[Danny Bateman]

What the hell do the Democrats or whoever do about it? How do you trick people into being passionate about things that are real?

I’d go one further.

The clear and present problem for Democrats - the one most responsible for them pissing away another election to Trump - is they cannot force a growing chunk of the population to opt in to reality. They simply prefer to construct their own by mainlining whatever bulls#!t propaganda is served up daily on Fox or they find online, via guys like Rogan, etc.

People don’t give a s#!t how inflation works. They just know they want to toss out the bums. Trump sells them a bill of goods that all their problems are due to Democrats, or illegal immigrants, or whatever culture war BS of the day, and it feels good, so they buy it.

Dems cannot brute force people to accept objective reality. Not sure what the best approach is here. 

 

[Archy1221]

Hopefully the Dips#!t brigade ^^^^^^ and many many many Democrats continue to think that way for many elections to come 

 

[Mierin]

Hopefully the Dips#!t brigade ^^^^^^ and many many many Democrats continue to think that way for many elections to come 

Inflation is an actual thing that has affected people and is likely the straw that broke the camel's back for Democrats, but a large part of the electorate gives the president way too much credit for what's happening with the economy and inflation, whether good or bad.

There is also a large part of the electorate who is a bunch of f#&%ing idiots and whichever party can convince them to be angry about some carrot(s) wins their vote. I'm sure many of the GOP leadership think they are idiots too, although some of the leadership is part of this group of idiots. If you really think the electorate is smart when they allow themselves to get riled up over non-issues so easily, because one side convinces them that the other side is trying to do it, then you are also an idiot. It's f#&%ing insane that the GOP has convinced so many people that the Democrats think pushing transgender issues is a huge deal, but also brilliant of the GOP for pulling it off. Politics is a complete s#!tshow right now and a big part of it is because some random dumbass can say something on the internet and then the other side portrays it as a whole political party's agenda. Loe is a perfect example of someone whose brain has been turned to mush because of this.

The Democrats need to stop saying stupid things out loud, but there is nothing wrong with them trying the same playbook. We are all worse off that this is what politics has turned into, but I'm not sure how else they combat it other than doing the same thing.

 

[Lorewarn]

The clear and present problem for Democrats - the one most responsible for them pissing away another election to Trump - is they cannot force a growing chunk of the population to opt in to reality. They simply prefer to construct their own by mainlining whatever bulls#!t propaganda is served up daily on Fox or they find online, via guys like Rogan, etc.

A lack of living in reality is not exclusively unique to republicans or right-wing folks. Plenty of my peers and friends live in their own delusional progressive bubbles as well.

I agree with you that this is a problem for Democrats, but you're putting up some unnecessary guardrails here. This is a problem for all of us, period. Activistic media, influencers, and internet culture all across the political spectrum are unwitting cogs in the machinations of the rise of total bulls#!t as they protect self-interest moreso than they explore for the truth.

Now, do I think this equally pervasive across the political spectrum? No. But it's disingenuous to paint dems as inherent rational reality dwellers and republicans as inherently crazy in delusion.

Remember the pouncing and scolding and censoring around anyone who even hinted at the idea that Covid might have leaked from a lab?

 

[Enhance]

Dems cannot brute force people to accept objective reality. Not sure what the best approach is here. 

I would argue this is actually more of the problem for Democrats than anything else - it's thinking that there is an objective reality and treating those not living in it as morons. Most people don't like smugness, regardless of the form it takes. The results of this election were a pretty big "F you" to that mindset. You guys can blame middle America all you want but voters will always be emotional creatures, not logical ones.

Look I'd be one of the first people to say I think a lot of Republicans live in a whacked out fantasy land that's more susceptible to conspiracy and flat out misinformation, but acting like Democrats have it figured out and live in the real world is hyperbole because a lot of them get twisted it up into some wacky stuff, too. 

I don't really listen to Destiny, but I think he said something I agree with which is one of the biggest problems with the Left is that they take the bait on some really absurd s#!t and then start defending it, and it ends up weakening their overall positions. I'm paraphrasing, but he doesn't think there's as big of an epidemic of "wokeness" as some people on the right might feel there is, but there is absolutely an epidemic of people on the left willing to come to the defense of absurd s#!t when really people on the left should be more willing to step back and say "yeah, I'm not going to validate that."

This country always shifts politically every 4-12 years. There will absolutely be another Democratic president in the near future, and we'll probably be having conversations then about how the R's screwed this and that up. And then another 4-12 years will go by and we'll be back to having the chats about how the D's screwed this and that up.

 

[Mierin]

The DNC is often stupid and I don’t just mean messaging. It’s just hardly worth talking about in comparison.

One thing the DNC has to figure out how to do is not let small voices be blown up, although I’m not sure how you really do that if you’re not the ones blowing them up. But sometimes they are. 

Like with the small amount of woke stuff that actually is stupid; how do you not make it look like a DNC thing. Eg the diversity quotas required in movies for academy awards consideration. 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Inflation is an actual thing that has affected people and is likely the straw that broke the camel's back for Democrats, but a large part of the electorate gives the president way too much credit for what's happening with the economy and inflation, whether good or bad.
 

Maybe it is that simple. Jimmy Carter was handed the bill for the Vietnam War and that malaise turned into Ronald Reagan. Bush Sr. had an incredible approval rating after the Gulf War, which totally evaporated when a modest recession hit in 1991/92.  McCain inherited Bush's economic meltdown and voters thought Obama would be better for the economy. The economy was pretty healthy in 2016 but who's gonna trust a woman with the checkbook, amirite? Trump might well have won reelection had COVID not cocked up the economy (we seemed less worried about the actual deaths), and Biden's economic recovery could not outlast inflation, the economic feature average Americans notice. 

If something isn't going well in your personal life, and influencers are encouraging you to blame powerful outside forces, most Americans will take the bait. 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I would argue this is actually more of the problem for Democrats than anything else - it's thinking that there is an objective reality and treating those not living in it as morons. Most people don't like smugness, regardless of the form it takes. The results of this election were a pretty big "F you" to that mindset. You guys can blame middle America all you want but voters will always be emotional creatures, not logical ones.

Look I'd be one of the first people to say I think a lot of Republicans live in a whacked out fantasy land that's more susceptible to conspiracy and flat out misinformation, but acting like Democrats have it figured out and live in the real world is hyperbole because a lot of them get twisted it up into some wacky stuff, too. 

I don't really listen to Destiny, but I think he said something I agree with which is one of the biggest problems with the Left is that they take the bait on some really absurd s#!t and then start defending it, and it ends up weakening their overall positions. I'm paraphrasing, but he doesn't think there's as big of an epidemic of "wokeness" as some people on the right might feel there is, but there is absolutely an epidemic of people on the left willing to come to the defense of absurd s#!t when really people on the left should be more willing to step back and say "yeah, I'm not going to validate that."

This country always shifts politically every 4-12 years. There will absolutely be another Democratic president in the near future, and we'll probably be having conversations then about how the R's screwed this and that up. And then another 4-12 years will go by and we'll be back to having the chats about how the D's screwed this and that up.

If this is true, and it feels accurate to me, it just convinces me that everyone is caught in the social media algorithm. Not only has the constant scroll of constantly breaking news become America's primary source of information, it is literally designed to guide us into angry silos. 

 

[Lorewarn]

If this is true, and it feels accurate to me, it just convinces me that everyone is caught in the social media algorithm. Not only has the constant scroll of constantly breaking news become America's primary source of information, it is literally designed to guide us into angry silos. 

Sadly, yeah. As individuals we are hopelessly outmatched against the might and savvy of tools designed explicitly and expertly to prey on all of our cognitive vulnerabilities and irrationalities. 

 

[Mierin]

If this is true, and it feels accurate to me, it just convinces me that everyone is caught in the social media algorithm. Not only has the constant scroll of constantly breaking news become America's primary source of information, it is literally designed to guide us into angry silos. 

Sadly, yeah. As individuals we are hopelessly outmatched against the might and savvy of tools designed explicitly and expertly to prey on all of our cognitive vulnerabilities and irrationalities. 

Bingo. Politics will be based on the economy and whoever is best at using social media to manipulate people. 

I keep bringing it up, because it’s low hanging fruit, but the whole transgender thing is a huge nothingburger. Democrats don’t in general have any kind of strong opinion that transgender women should play women’s sports, and about all I’ve really seen is they want there to be some protections in place for transgender people when it comes to discrimination. And the latter doesn’t mean it’s an important thing. This isn’t something for people to get angry about it. 

 

[Danny Bateman]

A lack of living in reality is not exclusively unique to republicans or right-wing folks. Plenty of my peers and friends live in their own delusional progressive bubbles as well.

I agree with you that this is a problem for Democrats, but you're putting up some unnecessary guardrails here. This is a problem for all of us, period. Activistic media, influencers, and internet culture all across the political spectrum are unwitting cogs in the machinations of the rise of total bulls#!t as they protect self-interest moreso than they explore for the truth.

Now, do I think this equally pervasive across the political spectrum? No. But it's disingenuous to paint dems as inherent rational reality dwellers and republicans as inherently crazy in delusion.

Remember the pouncing and scolding and censoring around anyone who even hinted at the idea that Covid might have leaked from a lab?

Oh, it happens both ways. I definitely think a larger percentage of Republicans are susceptible because of their media diet is generally far more conspiratorial and less likely to be factual.

My opinions are definitely skewed though, because I’m a center-left normie liberal and I don’t pay that much attention more left wing or progressive circles. I find their purity testing unnecessarily confrontational and would agree they’re probably more susceptible to taking dumbass positive that alienate or upset most other voters as Enhance described above. I don’t really identify as a progressive largely for those reasons - and I think it’s also why they don’t really hold many levers of power across our various levels of government nationwide.

But to your (and his) points, it raises a point I’d like to make. Whatever has happened in modern America, far too many people have lost the simple ability to accept they might be objectively wrong about something - and changing their position in response. Anymore people just dig their heels in and retrench their incorrect belief even more. Trumpism treats admitting error as a sign of weakness. And it’s giving implicit permissions to millions of American to cling to their flawed beliefs about factual, objective matters as well, which just compounds the issue of us no longer agreeing on reality anymore.

Moiraine, not sure what they need to do to combat the dumb s#!t getting blown up phenomenon, but as a matter of winning elections, they better figure it out. The right-wing media ecosystem is going to continue blowing up every stupid, s#!tty take by any liberal anywhere in even the lowest position of power and ascribe it to the party of Woke now, and they’ll need to find a compelling response why that’s not true.

Maybe it really is as simple as waiting for the new administration to f#&% up and start to bungle the economy and the natural way of things will resume.

 

[Danny Bateman]

I don't really listen to Destiny, but I think he said something I agree with which is one of the biggest problems with the Left is that they take the bait on some really absurd s#!t and then start defending it, and it ends up weakening their overall positions. I'm paraphrasing, but he doesn't think there's as big of an epidemic of "wokeness" as some people on the right might feel there is, but there is absolutely an epidemic of people on the left willing to come to the defense of absurd s#!t when really people on the left should be more willing to step back and say "yeah, I'm not going to validate that."

To put a finer point on this, I think the terminally online leftists you’re describing above are the most insufferable, pretentious group of jackasses out there and would never suggesting listening to them because they do what you’re describing above to virtue signal moral superiority to everyone else. It’s politically radioactive to all other voters. 

 

[Archy1221]

Inflation is an actual thing that has affected people and is likely the straw that broke the camel's back for Democrats, but a large part of the electorate gives the president way too much credit for what's happening with the economy and inflation, whether good or bad.

There is also a large part of the electorate who is a bunch of f#&%ing idiots and whichever party can convince them to be angry about some carrot(s) wins their vote. I'm sure many of the GOP leadership think they are idiots too, although some of the leadership is part of this group of idiots. If you really think the electorate is smart when they allow themselves to get riled up over non-issues so easily, because one side convinces them that the other side is trying to do it, then you are also an idiot. It's f#&%ing insane that the GOP has convinced so many people that the Democrats think pushing transgender issues is a huge deal, but also brilliant of the GOP for pulling it off. Politics is a complete s#!tshow right now and a big part of it is because some random dumbass can say something on the internet and then the other side portrays it as a whole political party's agenda. Loe is a perfect example of someone whose brain has been turned to mush because of this.

The Democrats need to stop saying stupid things out loud, but there is nothing wrong with them trying the same playbook. We are all worse off that this is what politics has turned into, but I'm not sure how else they combat it other than doing the same thing.

The current administration couldn’t understand that inflation was creeping up and wouldn’t acknowledge it as a problem until they had no other choice.   For far too long, your group tried to gaslight the country and tell us it was very temporary and transitory and we really wouldn’t feel any real aftermath of inflation.    That is until reality hit them in the face and the electorate wasn’t too happy about the gaslighting and then starting questioning all the bulls#!t being fed to them.  
 

the condescending attitude of Washington DC ruling class telling the average voter that prices really weren’t that high and it’s just bacon rising $.20 that week so quit worrying didn’t work out to well for the Democrats this cycle.   

The condescending attitude of gaslighting America about the huge inflow of illegal immigrants in 2022/2022/2023 and telling us all the border was secure was a big F you to the areas who felt the effects of that mass illegal immigration.   Especially when the Governors of a few southern States sent those immigrants north to areas that normally don’t have to deal with it.  Well that was quite the  eye opener for them.   
 

as @Enhance insinuated, the GOP will likely overplay their hand or some country or world shock will happen that the electorate will blame on the ruling party and the other side will get a chance again.   That is pretty much the only guaranteed sure thing in politics.  

 

[Archy1221]

My couple  hopes for the next 2-4 years going into midterms is that:

1) the GOP carries through on border security before any immigration reform.   Deport as many criminal illegals as possible and overstay visas.   Quickly but properly Vet and bring over Afghan interpreters/immediate family members who helped our troops during the war and were promised asylum.  
2) Once that is complete, work with moderate Dems to figure out a work visa plan for those illegal aliens who show a stable work history with no criminal record.    
3) once that process is in place, figure out how to process immigrants applying to come into our country and expedite the pathway to citizenship so it doesn’t take so long.  
4) TPS immigrants need to be evaluated and sent back when there isn’t the issue in their homelands that brought them here.   It’s Temporary for a reason. 
5). Reduce the size of government yearly budget.  Every time a crisis hits, we do massive stimulus, and then the budget barely creeps down from that massive stimulus top point.   A few years go by and then we’re told we can’t live without all that increased spending.    
6) make the military spending more efficient.

7) whatever else good happens is gravy.

8). Hopefully all the clowns who claim Democracy is ending and the GOP are racist fascists continue to voice that rhetoric loud and proud.  
9). MTG and Boebert etc leave government but we all know that won’t happen.  I hope The Squad stays though and continues to lead the Dems down a dark hole to nowhere.  

 

[Lorewarn]

But to your (and his) points, it raises a point I’d like to make. Whatever has happened in modern America, far too many people have lost the simple ability to accept they might be objectively wrong about something - and changing their position in response. Anymore people just dig their heels in and retrench their incorrect belief even more. Trumpism treats admitting error as a sign of weakness. And it’s giving implicit permissions to millions of American to cling to their flawed beliefs about factual, objective matters as well, which just compounds the issue of us no longer agreeing on reality anymore.

The sobering reality is that without some comprehensive shift, we are in and will continue down the path of a post-truth reality. It's a box that can't be closed, and the ultimatum for the DNC is to either stoop to the ploys and tactics that the right wing media complex has done so well at (which will serve them, but is bad for all of us), or continue to lose. 

My couple  hopes for the next 2-4 years going into midterms is that:

1) the GOP carries through on border security before any immigration reform.   Deport as many criminal illegals as possible and overstay visas.   Quickly but properly Vet and bring over Afghan interpreters/immediate family members who helped our troops during the war and were promised asylum.  
2) Once that is complete, work with moderate Dems to figure out a work visa plan for those illegal aliens who show a stable work history with no criminal record.    
3) once that process is in place, figure out how to process immigrants applying to come into our country and expedite the pathway to citizenship so it doesn’t take so long.  
4) TPS immigrants need to be evaluated and sent back when there isn’t the issue in their homelands that brought them here.   It’s Temporary for a reason. 
5). Reduce the size of government yearly budget.  Every time a crisis hits, we do massive stimulus, and then the budget barely creeps down from that massive stimulus top point.   A few years go by and then we’re told we can’t live without all that increased spending.    
6) make the military spending more efficient.

7) whatever else good happens is gravy.

8). Hopefully all the clowns who claim Democracy is ending and the GOP are racist fascists continue to voice that rhetoric loud and proud.  
9). MTG and Boebert etc leave government but we all know that won’t happen.  I hope The Squad stays though and continues to lead the Dems down a dark hole to nowhere.  

I'd be happy about near all of this, but am also predicting that exactly none of this happens other than possibly a decent chunk of deportations.