Carnes Starter?

[knapplc]

You just repeated what I said. At any given moment Martinez is either (1) standing in the pocket surveying the field, or (2) scrambling on a designed run. And yes, I mean that both can take place during the same play. But once he's made the transition from one, he seems incapable of going back to the other.

Carnes, meanwhile, will stand in the pocket and survey, find nothing open, roll out, stand and survey, roll out some more, then find a target and hit it or scramble. He is constantly scanning and trying to make a play.

Point being, I can't remember a time I saw Martinez roll out and then pull up and make a throw instead of continuing to run. The only exception might be those odd shovel pass things we saw in the Holiday Bowl.

Whazzzbuzza? I did not repeat what you said. You said Martinez EITHER stands in the pocket OR takes off on a designed run. Taylor's very first series in the Spring Game featured a play where he was NOT supposed to run, but did. And ran for a first down. On a play designed to be a pass. Because there were no open receivers.

Again - it was NOT a designed run.

How do you think we're saying the same thing?

 

[Hujan]

You just repeated what I said. At any given moment Martinez is either (1) standing in the pocket surveying the field, or (2) scrambling on a designed run. And yes, I mean that both can take place during the same play. But once he's made the transition from one, he seems incapable of going back to the other.

Carnes, meanwhile, will stand in the pocket and survey, find nothing open, roll out, stand and survey, roll out some more, then find a target and hit it or scramble. He is constantly scanning and trying to make a play.

Point being, I can't remember a time I saw Martinez roll out and then pull up and make a throw instead of continuing to run. The only exception might be those odd shovel pass things we saw in the Holiday Bowl.

Whazzzbuzza? I did not repeat what you said. You said Martinez EITHER stands in the pocket OR takes off on a designed run. Taylor's very first series in the Spring Game featured a play where he was NOT supposed to run, but did. And ran for a first down. On a play designed to be a pass. Because there were no open receivers.

Again - it was NOT a designed run.

How do you think we're saying the same thing?

Designed run was a poor choice of words. My point is that for Taylor, if the throw is not there, he tucks it and runs, never to think about the throw again. He is either in "run mode" or "throw mode" but never both at the same time. (Same play, yes; same time, no.)

Carnes is the exact opposite. He has the ability to move out of the pocket and position himself as a threat to run, but does so while keeping his head up and ball ready to hit a receiver if one should open up.

 

[knapplc]

Designed run was a poor choice of words. My point is that for Taylor, if the throw is not there, he tucks it and runs, never to think about the throw again. He is either in "run mode" or "throw mode" but never both at the same time. (Same play, yes; same time, no.)

Carnes is the exact opposite. He has the ability to move out of the pocket and position himself as a threat to run, but does so while keeping his head up and ball ready to hit a receiver if one should open up.

Well.... I can't say I agree with that, either. Here's what I'm going to say, and it's not necessarily disagreeing with you. See if it helps the conversation:

Taylor was given a run/pass option on a designed rollout in the first quarter of the Spring Game. He rolled to his left, rolled some more, I thought he was going to run, then (on the run) he hit BK in stride for a first down. I don't know how you judge that, but to me it means he's able to make that call - maybe. Hard to say.

We'll have to wait until the season starts. Taylor could surprise everyone with his massive improvement. Taylor could regress. Carnes could start and Taylor could be off the team or a WR or DB or something. Too many intangibles right now.

I'm going to bed. Have a good evening.

 

[Lil' Red]

We'll have to wait until the season starts. Taylor could surprise everyone with his massive improvement. Taylor could regress. Carnes could start and Taylor could be off the team or a WR or DB or something. Too many intangibles right now.

I agree with this and right now we just have to see how it plays out.

 

[bshirt]

The problem for me is that people are assuming that Carnes' limited knowledge of the playbook will mean that he would play like Martinez in '10 if we started Carnes this season.

But the one major difference between Martinez and Carnes is that Carnes clearly has the ability to improvise. Martinez has two modes: Stand in pocket and survey the field, or take off on a designed run.

Carnes has the ability to roll the pocket and improvise a throw. He can buy time and wait for a receiver to break loose. He is a lot like Pryor in that sense. Carnes ability to throw on the run means that he doesn't have to commit between "throwing mode" and "running mode." He is always in both.

The reason I mention this is because these assets will allow him to make plays despite a limited knowledge of the PB and he would be leaps and bounds ahead of where Martinez was at the same time last year.

Martinez '10 = Mediocre knowledge of playbook, terrible fundamentals, no ability to improvise, great linear speed

Carnes '11 = Mediocre knowledge of playbook, good fundamentals, excellent ability to improvise, pretty good speed

If we start Carnes now, we are no worse off than we were last year. And if Martinez is not improving and has not yet overcome his injuries, I am not sure you are worse off than you would be starting sophomore Martinez.

You're basing that as factual due to one silly spring scrimmage??? Hujan, you can't possibly be serious.

I think playing a Penn St, Wisconsin, Ohio State, etc just "might" be a just little bit different. Just "maybe".....

 

[Hujan]

What did we have to go on with Martinez?

My point is that everyone is scoffing at the idea of Carnes starting, but how is that in any way shape or form any more ridiculous than Martinez starting in '10?

And one scrimmage? You do realize that Carnes was the Scout Team MVP, right? The point is that the kid has the fundamental tools, both with his arm and his feet. His mastery of the offense will come later. If you can't already feel that Carnes has that "it" factor--the same spark that JT has, by the way--then you don't have a nose for football.

He has things that you cannot teach and it doesn't take long to see it. When it's there it's there. This is true for all the great ones. The first time I saw Rex play---at Mizzou '09---I knew he was going to be a great one. I had absolute confidence in him.

With Martinez, even when he was breaking those runs I was wondering how much longer he could keep doing that before the world caught up to him. More and more, Martinez looks like he has already reached his ceiling and will never again reach the heights he hit last year.

Whether this year or the next one, I strongly believe that Carnes will replace Martinez as our QB.

 

[Hercules]

What? Carnes was the scout team MVP? Well, I was leaning strongly towards Taylor Martinez (probably the 2010 actual team MVP), but now that I learned that Carnes was the scout team MVP, I'll have to reconsider.

Also, as much as I love Rex Burkhead, anytime I hear people talk about how he's a "great one," I feel like they've completely lost touch with the history of RB's we've had at this school, or at least that they're holding our RBs to an entirely different standard of excellence than our QBs. Everybody wants to talk about QBs, but if you want to know where we've seriously changed since our glory days, in terms of depth and talent, look at the offensive line, and running back. On our "modern" championship teams (the 90's) Rex Burkhead probably would have been 4th string. He reminds me more of Jeff Kinney then he does Roger Craig, Mike Rozier, Lawrence Phillips, Ahman Green, etc etc. I love how Burkhead runs, but he doesn't have big play ability like even Roy Helu had, and I guess I'm hoping that some of the new guys like Kenny Bell and Jamal Turner can help make up for that loss.

The improvisation argument is silly. Martinez improvised on a number of occasions last year. Sometimes it was great, sometimes it was terrible. Carnes is probably more conservative - he's going to make fewer mistakes, and he's going to make fewer plays. There were a few improvised plays Martinez made against Oklahoma State that no Nebraska QB since Tommie Frazier has been able to make. Don't get me wrong, Carnes has potential, but I'm nowhere close to sold, and I'm gonna wait for Martinez to get healthy again, as good as he looked the first half of last year.

 

[bshirt]

What did we have to go on with Martinez?

My point is that everyone is scoffing at the idea of Carnes starting, but how is that in any way shape or form any more ridiculous than Martinez starting in '10?

And one scrimmage? You do realize that Carnes was the Scout Team MVP, right? The point is that the kid has the fundamental tools, both with his arm and his feet. His mastery of the offense will come later. If you can't already feel that Carnes has that "it" factor--the same spark that JT has, by the way--then you don't have a nose for football.

He has things that you cannot teach and it doesn't take long to see it. When it's there it's there. This is true for all the great ones. The first time I saw Rex play---at Mizzou '09---I knew he was going to be a great one. I had absolute confidence in him.

With Martinez, even when he was breaking those runs I was wondering how much longer he could keep doing that before the world caught up to him. More and more, Martinez looks like he has already reached his ceiling and will never again reach the heights he hit last year.

Whether this year or the next one, I strongly believe that Carnes will replace Martinez as our QB.

Scout team MVP? lol....oh Gawd. Oh yeah, fours years of being an All American at minimum. You bet. Probably two or three heisman's too.

Tmart has gap speed Carnes could only dream of and it doesn't take long to see it. Heh, just don't blink. I suppose you think that could be teached? If so, you not only don't have a nose for cfb but....oh well, nevermind.

I guess one spring scrimmage just isn't enough to make me "feel" if someone has the IT factor (whatever that is). But I wish the kid the best and I'm damned glad we have him. We'll see.

 

[Saunders]

Freshman All-American > Scout Team MVP

 

[huskerscott]

What did we have to go on with Martinez?

My point is that everyone is scoffing at the idea of Carnes starting, but how is that in any way shape or form any more ridiculous than Martinez starting in '10?

And one scrimmage? You do realize that Carnes was the Scout Team MVP, right? The point is that the kid has the fundamental tools, both with his arm and his feet. His mastery of the offense will come later. If you can't already feel that Carnes has that "it" factor--the same spark that JT has, by the way--then you don't have a nose for football.

He has things that you cannot teach and it doesn't take long to see it. When it's there it's there. This is true for all the great ones. The first time I saw Rex play---at Mizzou '09---I knew he was going to be a great one. I had absolute confidence in him.

With Martinez, even when he was breaking those runs I was wondering how much longer he could keep doing that before the world caught up to him. More and more, Martinez looks like he has already reached his ceiling and will never again reach the heights he hit last year.

Whether this year or the next one, I strongly believe that Carnes will replace Martinez as our QB.

Good point Hujan. Based on the QB situation last year, its not unheard of that Carnes could start in the regular season. Bo is gonna go with the guy that has the best chance to win. Martinez didnt know the playbook like the back of his hand, but he still started, maybe thats why their wasnt any audibles at the line of scrimmage. So the argument that Carnes doesnt know the playbook doesnt hold water, plus we are still 4months away from the season starting. Very few people at this time last year thought Martinez was gonna start over Lee. Plenty of time for Carnes to learn the playbook enough to take the job away from Taylor.

 

[BIG ERN]

Hujan I like your way of thinking. Carnes can improvise on broken plays and Martinez can't. His ability to throw on the run is amazing to me. For the 100th time I still think Martinez should start the opener, but if his glass body or bad play occurs...see you later.

 

[Hujan]

sauders, bshirt, hercules:

What's up with you guys? Everytime someone brings up Carnes starting, all you do is ask what he's done.

At this point in his career, he has been the Scout Team MVP plus had a great spring game.

At the same point in his career, Martinez had a great spring game.

No one said Scout Team MVP = guaranteed Heisman but it's more evidence of his potential than what we had to go on with Martinez when he started.

So why all the disgust when someone mentions Carnes starting?

So far, all we know about Martinez is that (1) his mechanics have not improved one iota since he walked off Qualcomm in December, and (2) his ankle is still bothering him. Not exactly confidence inspiring stuff.

And I think we all know that Martinez is farther from his Freshman All-American performance now than he was at the start of the 2010 season.

I am sure the coaches will start whoever they think gives us the best chance to win, but based on what little information we have to go on, I am losing confidence in Martinez and would love to be in Carnes shoes right now.

 

[huskerscott]

What did we have to go on with Martinez?

My point is that everyone is scoffing at the idea of Carnes starting, but how is that in any way shape or form any more ridiculous than Martinez starting in '10?

And one scrimmage? You do realize that Carnes was the Scout Team MVP, right? The point is that the kid has the fundamental tools, both with his arm and his feet. His mastery of the offense will come later. If you can't already feel that Carnes has that "it" factor--the same spark that JT has, by the way--then you don't have a nose for football.

He has things that you cannot teach and it doesn't take long to see it. When it's there it's there. This is true for all the great ones. The first time I saw Rex play---at Mizzou '09---I knew he was going to be a great one. I had absolute confidence in him.

With Martinez, even when he was breaking those runs I was wondering how much longer he could keep doing that before the world caught up to him. More and more, Martinez looks like he has already reached his ceiling and will never again reach the heights he hit last year.

Whether this year or the next one, I strongly believe that Carnes will replace Martinez as our QB.

Scout team MVP? lol....oh Gawd. Oh yeah, fours years of being an All American at minimum. You bet. Probably two or three heisman's too.

Tmart has gap speed Carnes could only dream of and it doesn't take long to see it. Heh, just don't blink. I suppose you think that could be teached? If so, you not only don't have a nose for cfb but....oh well, nevermind.

I guess one spring scrimmage just isn't enough to make me "feel" if someone has the IT factor (whatever that is). But I wish the kid the best and I'm damned glad we have him. We'll see.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

I want to know what your drinking.

I think your just arguing just to disagree with someone.

By the way your boy Martinez was on the scout team the year before he became the starter.

2 or 3 heismans you must be really high on something.

 

[Hujan]

What did we have to go on with Martinez?

My point is that everyone is scoffing at the idea of Carnes starting, but how is that in any way shape or form any more ridiculous than Martinez starting in '10?

And one scrimmage? You do realize that Carnes was the Scout Team MVP, right? The point is that the kid has the fundamental tools, both with his arm and his feet. His mastery of the offense will come later. If you can't already feel that Carnes has that "it" factor--the same spark that JT has, by the way--then you don't have a nose for football.

He has things that you cannot teach and it doesn't take long to see it. When it's there it's there. This is true for all the great ones. The first time I saw Rex play---at Mizzou '09---I knew he was going to be a great one. I had absolute confidence in him.

With Martinez, even when he was breaking those runs I was wondering how much longer he could keep doing that before the world caught up to him. More and more, Martinez looks like he has already reached his ceiling and will never again reach the heights he hit last year.

Whether this year or the next one, I strongly believe that Carnes will replace Martinez as our QB.

Scout team MVP? lol....oh Gawd. Oh yeah, fours years of being an All American at minimum. You bet. Probably two or three heisman's too.

Tmart has gap speed Carnes could only dream of and it doesn't take long to see it. Heh, just don't blink. I suppose you think that could be teached? If so, you not only don't have a nose for cfb but....oh well, nevermind.

I guess one spring scrimmage just isn't enough to make me "feel" if someone has the IT factor (whatever that is). But I wish the kid the best and I'm damned glad we have him. We'll see.

See above post. T-Mart's "gap speed" did d!(k for us against SDSU and Texas. And it appears that when he is anything less than 100%, his speed disappears too. Then what are you left with? And how many times can a scrambling QB expect to stay injury free during a college football season? Jake Freaking Locker broke his ribs during the latter part of the season and got his bell rung during the Holiday Bowl, but still managed to find a way to run all over us.

Speed is great, but there has to be another dimension to his game for us to be productive with him. I would trade a ton of his speed for some more pocket presence to move the chains on 3rd down. Third and long is basically a death sentence with him at the helm from what we've seen. Might as well begin punting on 3rd and 8 from now on.

I don't know what to tell you if you can't sense when players have that "IT." It's swagger. It's the little, barely perceptible things they do. It's the way they look comfortable and calm and just seem to be in the right place at the right time. You're in that box or you're not. Turner has it. Carnes has it.

 

[Hujan]

What? Carnes was the scout team MVP? Well, I was leaning strongly towards Taylor Martinez (probably the 2010 actual team MVP), but now that I learned that Carnes was the scout team MVP, I'll have to reconsider.

Again this is a straw-man argument. See above posts.

Also, as much as I love Rex Burkhead, anytime I hear people talk about how he's a "great one," I feel like they've completely lost touch with the history of RB's we've had at this school, or at least that they're holding our RBs to an entirely different standard of excellence than our QBs. Everybody wants to talk about QBs, but if you want to know where we've seriously changed since our glory days, in terms of depth and talent, look at the offensive line, and running back. On our "modern" championship teams (the 90's) Rex Burkhead probably would have been 4th string. He reminds me more of Jeff Kinney then he does Roger Craig, Mike Rozier, Lawrence Phillips, Ahman Green, etc etc. I love how Burkhead runs, but he doesn't have big play ability like even Roy Helu had, and I guess I'm hoping that some of the new guys like Kenny Bell and Jamal Turner can help make up for that loss.

My God you guys are technical. "Great" not in the sense that is going to break rushing titles (though he could), but in the sense that he is going to be a big-time, impact player for us. The first time I saw him play as a freshman, I said, "This kid has heart, fights for extra yards, and is going to be a leader. He's going to be a good one for us." And he's turned into the fan favorite I knew he would be. He is no Lawrence Phillips or Ahman Green, but he might earn similar respect in the lore of Husker football as a Mackovicka. Maybe? Point being, I knew Rex was going to be fun to watch the very first time I got to see him. I know I'm not alone. And I see the same things in Carnes and Turner. You are going to see a lot of dazzling plays between those two for years to come.

The improvisation argument is silly. Martinez improvised on a number of occasions last year. Sometimes it was great, sometimes it was terrible. Carnes is probably more conservative - he's going to make fewer mistakes, and he's going to make fewer plays. There were a few improvised plays Martinez made against Oklahoma State that no Nebraska QB since Tommie Frazier has been able to make. Don't get me wrong, Carnes has potential, but I'm nowhere close to sold, and I'm gonna wait for Martinez to get healthy again, as good as he looked the first half of last year.

I can't think of many, or any, really. I can remember Martinez spinning around in the pocket like a top in our game at Washington, then finally deciding to run and picking up quite a few yards. It was more like a lucky panic than anything. So, yes, I suppose he's picked up some yards on broken plays. Based on the limited amount we've seen, Carnes doesn't seem to look like the play is ever really broken. The motion, the rolling out, the creeping, it all looks like it's part of the design. Again, that's the "IT" factor I'm talking about.