Corey Cooper

General Blackshirt said:
True, which is why I'll argue against you. The fans see on the field action 13 or 14 times a year, which is a pretty small sample size. If these sources come from somebody who knows what they're talking about, they probably are seeing these players in practice day in and day out.

It's possible that a trainer or somebody unimportant would be biased in their information, but a post like that sounds more of a paraphrase of coaches comments. That information looks too detailed to be made up, and if it's biased I bet it's not by much. If it is completely made up, well, props to that guy. That's pretty creative.
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There have been some biased comments made by "insiders" over the last couple of years, a couple I would even describe as wildly biased against players both current and from past years. Everyone has an opinion, and it's normal for some people to simply not get along. What's unhelpful is when those dislikes transfer from a personal dislike into a description of a player's ability.

I don't care if John Smith doesn't like Bob Jones. I care if Bob Jones can make a block/catch a ball/run for a first down/complete a pass. If John Smith is telling us that Bob Jones can't block/catch/run/throw not because he can't, but because John Smith doesn't like him, that's worthless information.

That's why I give little credence to these "insider" sources and focus on what I see.

 
knapplc said:
There have been some biased comments made by "insiders" over the last couple of years, a couple I would even describe as wildly biased against players both current and from past years. Everyone has an opinion, and it's normal for some people to simply not get along. What's unhelpful is when those dislikes transfer from a personal dislike into a description of a player's ability.

I don't care if John Smith doesn't like Bob Jones. I care if Bob Jones can make a block/catch a ball/run for a first down/complete a pass. If John Smith is telling us that Bob Jones can't block/catch/run/throw not because he can't, but because John Smith doesn't like him, that's worthless information.

That's why I give little credence to these "insider" sources and focus on what I see.
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Hey! I don't like your criticism of Bob Jones. As Husker fans, we should all stand behind the players, real or imagined, no matter how they've performed. And I'll also add that John Smith doesn't know what he's talking about and is a lousy blocker/catcher/runner/thrower anyways!

 
I'm not addressing insider rumors really, but more the vast general consensus on Taylor needing a ton of work in his passing, and Carnes having passing fundamentals. I can't even count the times both statements have been doubted. You go back to Cody's recruitment, and people would not stop gushing over his out-of-this-world high school passing numbers, listening to nobody who said Cody was a complete project as a passer in an extremely basic offense that would need years of sitting and waiting to hone his craft. Did people say this because they disliked Cody? I don't think so. The same people have been very much behind Cody through his career here.

I think we all saw last year that Taylor is extremely up-and-down in his pocket awareness and mechanics, to put it nicely. Does that mean he never makes nice throws? No, it doesn't, but while he has phenomenal physical ability, he has always had a long way to go in various other departments of the game. It isn't a biased criticism of Taylor so much as a description of the type of QB he is: A+ runner, C+ passer. It doesn't mean we can put those skills to use and make the most out of it in the right scheme, even in the passing game, because as we saw also, his running opened up the passing quite a bit and involved a lot of wide-open or single covered receivers to throw to. He just wasn't going to be the type of field general who dissects coverages and beats teams with his QB acumen. He may even never get to that level in his years at Nebraska. Doesn't mean he won't be a great player, and I think we all do agree on this point.

Carnes compared to the rest of the QBs really did have some solid passing fundamentals down, but it don't mean nothin' if he doesn't "put it all together", so to speak, and really, really know the offense. It's how it is with anyone. Garrett Gilbert, Landry Jones, Matt Barkley, these guys are pretty outstanding in their pocket-passing QB background, and they all struggled early in their careers. Zac Lee was supposed to be very good with all those things too, but he didn't totally put it together on the field either. It's anyone's guess if he could have with another year starting, but Bo made the call to go with the guy who was going to be able to rip off ridiculous 60-yard touchdown runs every time he touched the ball.

When it comes to other things, I agree, sourcing is a big problem. But opinions on the skill profiles coming in of the players in question here have been pretty solid one way, with the dissenting side usually of the "Well, look at his HS stats. I don't want to believe that" variety.

 
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Not to be a jerk Zoogs but Cody's high school offense was simple for a reason, his high school coach was smart. Wats is the one that makes QB's look bad.

Wats always said he did not like packages for QB's but wanted them to know it all, why? Thats foolish, thats trying to be to smart for your own good.

If a guy is not great at throwing slants, then dont make him throw slants. If he is better at deep routes, then give him that. If he has a hard time with reads, then make them auto-reads by formation.

On to Cooper, he played high school ball near where I grew up and where I played. The team struggles, a lot, they get good players but the staff has a hard time with them due to a lack of committment from the school, community and often time the players. My guess, Cooper never really had great coaching and excelled due to his freakish ability. To him, all of this is new. Read steps, his keys (which in high school my guess would be he hardly ever had and is the hardest thing for a FS or SS to get used to), his rotations and then the killer, communication.

High school communication and college communication are SOOO different. I would bet his toughest call in high school was yelling out the strong side of the field and possibly a color and number for a coverage scheme.

 
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zoogies said:
I'm not addressing insider rumors really, but more the vast general consensus on Taylor needing a ton of work in his passing, and Carnes having passing fundamentals. I can't even count the times both statements have been doubted. You go back to Cody's recruitment, and people would not stop gushing over his out-of-this-world high school passing numbers, listening to nobody who said Cody was a complete project as a passer in an extremely basic offense that would need years of sitting and waiting to hone his craft. Did people say this because they disliked Cody? I don't think so. The same people have been very much behind Cody through his career here.

I think we all saw last year that Taylor is extremely up-and-down in his pocket awareness and mechanics, to put it nicely. Does that mean he never makes nice throws? No, it doesn't, but while he has phenomenal physical ability, he has always had a long way to go in various other departments of the game. It isn't a biased criticism of Taylor so much as a description of the type of QB he is: A+ runner, C+ passer. It doesn't mean we can put those skills to use and make the most out of it in the right scheme, even in the passing game, because as we saw also, his running opened up the passing quite a bit and involved a lot of wide-open or single covered receivers to throw to. He just wasn't going to be the type of field general who dissects coverages and beats teams with his QB acumen. He may even never get to that level in his years at Nebraska. Doesn't mean he won't be a great player, and I think we all do agree on this point.

Carnes compared to the rest of the QBs really did have some solid passing fundamentals down, but it don't mean nothin' if he doesn't "put it all together", so to speak, and really, really know the offense. It's how it is with anyone. Garrett Gilbert, Landry Jones, Matt Barkley, these guys are pretty outstanding in their pocket-passing QB background, and they all struggled early in their careers. Zac Lee was supposed to be very good with all those things too, but he didn't totally put it together on the field either. It's anyone's guess if he could have with another year starting, but Bo made the call to go with the guy who was going to be able to rip off ridiculous 60-yard touchdown runs every time he touched the ball.

When it comes to other things, I agree, sourcing is a big problem. But opinions on the skill profiles coming in of the players in question here have been pretty solid one way, with the dissenting side usually of the "Well, look at his HS stats. I don't want to believe that" variety.
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What "vast" general consensus are you talking about regarding Martinez? I've seen way more criticism about his passing than praise. He's had ONE "good" game passing, and he's been serviceable in a few others. And every single time his one good passing game is brought up, the (correct) caveat that it came against a horrific pass defense is mentioned, and never disputed. This is a straw man, or you're reading way more into the comments about Martinez' passing ability than is warranted.

Another thing that is mentioned about Martinez, and which cannot be ignored, is that he was a Redshirt Freshman last year. You cannot address comments about him as if he's a finished product. Give the guy time to mature before talking about what he is. He is a work in progress, nothing more, just like every QB on the roster. We have no idea, based on what we saw last year and in the 2011 Spring Game, who will be the starter this year or next year. Could be Martinez, could be Carnes, could be someone else To talk about what Martinez is or what Carnes is is a mistake at this point.

This glass-half-empty way of looking at Martinez becomes even more odd when you turn right around and state that Carnes has solid passing fundamentals. zoogies, how can you make that statement with any level of seriousness when he's never played a single down of D1 football? Surely you don't need a litany of four- and five-star recruits who've bombed at this level, do you?

This is what I don't get about the whole concept of being "for" one player and "against" another. The arguments presented, especially in this case, are pure guesswork.

 
This glass-half-empty way of looking at Martinez becomes even more odd when you turn right around and state that Carnes has solid passing fundamentals. zoogies, how can you make that statement with any level of seriousness when he's never played a single down of D1 football? Surely you don't need a litany of four- and five-star recruits who've bombed at this level, do you?
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I'm confused, so let's settle this one point at least.

It's like say, a phenomenally fast wide receiver prospect who doesn't run crisp routes. You know he's going to be a game-changer for you in many ways, but you don't expect him to transform into a crisp route runner by year 5. It would be a longshot. Still, he'll be a useful type of player, just in a different way.

You might be right that there isn't much of people saying Taylor is totally fine with his throwing anymore, but I remember many heated discussions last season over Taylor's supposed non-weakness on rollouts and screens.

There is a lot more to being a QB, and no matter what style they are they have a long ways to go in terms of putting it together and performing well. And you're totally right about projections and everyone being a work in progress.

Cody Green did not have good passing fundamentals. Brion has good passing fundamentals. Bubba does not have good passing fundamentals. I think Jamal was OK. Taylor did not have good passing fundamentals. There is nothing inconsistent about optimism here. I'm not making predictions about how well they will play, but predictions on the type of player they are going to be and what strengths we'll have to rely on, and what weaknesses will need to be worked around. In the case of our new offense, having poor passing fundamentals means you better damn well be an electrifying running threat, the way Taylor is.

And really, that I can remember the whole thing about prospects being raw/having poor fundamentals was started as reasons for why those guys badly need years to sit and develop before being thrown in the fire. Cody, IMO, got messed up by never getting that redshirt year.

 
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knapplc said:
zoogies said:
I'm not addressing insider rumors really, but more the vast general consensus on Taylor needing a ton of work in his passing, and Carnes having passing fundamentals. I can't even count the times both statements have been doubted. You go back to Cody's recruitment, and people would not stop gushing over his out-of-this-world high school passing numbers, listening to nobody who said Cody was a complete project as a passer in an extremely basic offense that would need years of sitting and waiting to hone his craft. Did people say this because they disliked Cody? I don't think so. The same people have been very much behind Cody through his career here.

I think we all saw last year that Taylor is extremely up-and-down in his pocket awareness and mechanics, to put it nicely. Does that mean he never makes nice throws? No, it doesn't, but while he has phenomenal physical ability, he has always had a long way to go in various other departments of the game. It isn't a biased criticism of Taylor so much as a description of the type of QB he is: A+ runner, C+ passer. It doesn't mean we can put those skills to use and make the most out of it in the right scheme, even in the passing game, because as we saw also, his running opened up the passing quite a bit and involved a lot of wide-open or single covered receivers to throw to. He just wasn't going to be the type of field general who dissects coverages and beats teams with his QB acumen. He may even never get to that level in his years at Nebraska. Doesn't mean he won't be a great player, and I think we all do agree on this point.

Carnes compared to the rest of the QBs really did have some solid passing fundamentals down, but it don't mean nothin' if he doesn't "put it all together", so to speak, and really, really know the offense. It's how it is with anyone. Garrett Gilbert, Landry Jones, Matt Barkley, these guys are pretty outstanding in their pocket-passing QB background, and they all struggled early in their careers. Zac Lee was supposed to be very good with all those things too, but he didn't totally put it together on the field either. It's anyone's guess if he could have with another year starting, but Bo made the call to go with the guy who was going to be able to rip off ridiculous 60-yard touchdown runs every time he touched the ball.

When it comes to other things, I agree, sourcing is a big problem. But opinions on the skill profiles coming in of the players in question here have been pretty solid one way, with the dissenting side usually of the "Well, look at his HS stats. I don't want to believe that" variety.
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What "vast" general consensus are you talking about regarding Martinez? I've seen way more criticism about his passing than praise. He's had ONE "good" game passing, and he's been serviceable in a few others. And every single time his one good passing game is brought up, the (correct) caveat that it came against a horrific pass defense is mentioned, and never disputed. This is a straw man, or you're reading way more into the comments about Martinez' passing ability than is warranted.

Another thing that is mentioned about Martinez, and which cannot be ignored, is that he was a Redshirt Freshman last year. You cannot address comments about him as if he's a finished product. Give the guy time to mature before talking about what he is. He is a work in progress, nothing more, just like every QB on the roster. We have no idea, based on what we saw last year and in the 2011 Spring Game, who will be the starter this year or next year. Could be Martinez, could be Carnes, could be someone else To talk about what Martinez is or what Carnes is is a mistake at this point.

This glass-half-empty way of looking at Martinez becomes even more odd when you turn right around and state that Carnes has solid passing fundamentals. zoogies, how can you make that statement with any level of seriousness when he's never played a single down of D1 football? Surely you don't need a litany of four- and five-star recruits who've bombed at this level, do you?

This is what I don't get about the whole concept of being "for" one player and "against" another. The arguments presented, especially in this case, are pure guesswork.
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Absolutely spot on here. The thing that seems to go unsaid more often than not is that in an ideal situation, Taylor would be playing backup to someone right now with a full redshirt and one to two additional years of seasoning under one coach, or at least in one system. What Taylor got was ineptitude in physical form (Watson) and a constantly morphing 'vision' of a Nebraska offense which wasn't particularly good at anything––all of this, by the way, with one redshirt season at WR and no live game experience prior to it. Now life isn't fair, and unfortunately at a program like Nebraska no one is going to give much of a crap if we lose five games this season, but everyone should at least attempt to remember that this guy was put in a ridiculous situation.

I have high hopes for Taylor. I would be shocked if he was not the starter come September. And I think his best football is ahead of him.

 
but everyone should at least attempt to remember that this guy was put in a ridiculous situation.
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I agree with that completely X. Taylor could have been eased in more. Will it affect his development? Hard to say, because he has a long time to go ahead of him. I feel that last year should have been a redshirt/feet wet year for him. Green was put in a ridiculous situation, and it didn't turn out well for him. There are areas that both guys I think just needed to take a long time to have time to work on, away from the week-in, week-out spotlight. Neither got a lot of time to do that before they had to prepare on a game-to-game, ready-up basis. Taylor has the offseason now, which is good, and he's in a better situation than Green. Still.

teachercd said:
Not to be a jerk Zoogs but Cody's high school offense was simple for a reason, his high school coach was smart. Wats is the one that makes QB's look bad.

Wats always said he did not like packages for QB's but wanted them to know it all, why? Thats foolish, thats trying to be to smart for your own good.

If a guy is not great at throwing slants, then dont make him throw slants. If he is better at deep routes, then give him that. If he has a hard time with reads, then make them auto-reads by formation.
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Didn't see this earlier - I think I'd agree with this. Got to play to players' strengths better. Shocking, but QBs are often better at certain types of throws than others. Maximize those areas, and know you'll need to live without some stuff.

By the way, I apologize. This thread is titled "Corey Cooper". My bad.

 
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We could go on and on about the QBs, but I held off on a reply because this is about Cooper, and maybe the secondary by extension. We could continue the QB discussion in another thread.

 
n.e.husker said:
Moiraine said:
can someone tell me about Brendan Stai? I keep hearing that he's helping the O Line but that's the extent of my knowledge and he's not listed on the coaching staff.
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Think he is a graduate assistant.
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He's an intern. Unlike a grad-assistant he can't do any coaching on the field but he doesn't have to be in grad-school. From what I've read Stai has provided quite a bit of input. Him and our new GA Marrow(Mike's dad) really seem like steals that should help this team.

 
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