LukeinNE

 

Not sure why this hasn't been posted yet, but Governor Nixon has activated the Missouri National Guard, to restore order in Ferguson.

Hell.............."National Guard soldier shoots and kills black man" I know that's far fetched, but wouldn't that be a title to read on the morning paper.

 

Honestly, I'm waiting for some idiot wanting a race war to fire on the police/National Guard from the crowd and try to get a bunch of innocent people hurt in the return volley.

Not sure why this hasn't been posted yet, but Governor Nixon has activated the Missouri National Guard, to restore order in Ferguson.

Most of what little I've read, left and right, are portraying this as Austin Democrats going overboard in a vendetta against Perry. Doubtful it'll go anywhere but it'll likely accomplish its goal of sabotaging his presidential hopes. I'm not sure if it's every happened before, but I can't think running for president under felony indictment is going to be helpful.

Some Republican DA in New York retaliating by trying to get Hillary Clinton indicted over Benghazi or some other dumb political issue in 3, 2, 1.....

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html

Ugh. So...

Character Assassination: revealing that Brown was filmed robbing a convenience store less than an hour before allegedly assaulting a cop and being shot to death.

Relevant Information: A 5 year old case of police abuse in Ferguson that did not involve the officer who shot Brown, nor did it involve Ferguson's current police chief.

I mean...just saying it's kind of hard to take complaints about "thugifying" Brown seriously when those same people (weakly) try to tar the police as racists.

Oh it would. But it currently isn't happening, is it?

Absolutely, it is. We live in a time of sensationalism, and in this particular case, we've got two camps that want very, very badly for the facts to swing in the direction of their ideological biases, which is too bad.

I was just pushing back against the notion that this is happening as some sort of racism thing. I don't think it is. I think this is the Ferguson police believing that their guy is being railroaded by the media and pushing back. If that's not what you were getting at, I apologize.

That's not the same thing at all. A smear campaign would be me bringing up an email he sent where he told a racist joke.

And you think for a second that wouldn't get blasted on every front page of every news site if something like that did come out?

 

 

There was a point where the shooting would have been justified. That moment came and went.

 

Not according to Missouri law

 

Like I said before, I think that statute gives the police far too much discretion in a situation like this, but it is what will be applied. The entire case against the officer will stand or fall on your #5.

 

563.046.3(2)(a) was enacted in 1977 and that reasoning was rejected by SCOTUS in 1985.

 

He'd allegedly just assaulted a police officer and tried to take his gun. The man is big enough he could probably kill someone with his bare hands. I don't think the jump to "reasonably believed" he was an imminent danger to others is a very big one.

Based on what we know to this point, I don't think the officer needed to or should've shot him down as he ran, but I think he stands a good chance in court if that's what happened. If Brown turned and tried to surrender as some witnesses are saying, that's another matter.

There was a point where the shooting would have been justified. That moment came and went.

Not according to Missouri law

Like I said before, I think that statute gives the police far too much discretion in a situation like this, but it is what will be applied. The entire case against the officer will stand or fall on your #5.

I always meet these things with mixed emotions. On the one hand, it's always nice to see a smug program like ND get knocked down a peg or two. On the other...how would we fare if the NCAA popped the hood on our program? The few football players I took classes with at UNL were always there and seemed to be decent enough students, but that's no guarantee...

Unfortunately, this thread needs updating.

KAMENSK-SHAKHTINSKY, Russia — NATO and Ukraine said that a column of military vehicles crossed into Ukraine from Russia last night and that most of them had been destroyed by Ukrainian artillery fire. It was not clear whether Russian soldiers or rebel separatists were driving the vehicles.

Russia, for its part, is denying everything at this point.

Very, very good write up by Vox on this today. They get into some of the potential legal issues likely to be raised, particularly the "fleeing felon rule," which strikes me as probably the officer's go-to defense in this case.

Edit, looking over the relevant statute under Missouri law, I think it's all going to come down to how well witness accounts of Brown's surrender attempt holds up:

Law enforcement officer's use of force in making an arrest.

563.046. 1. A law enforcement officer need not retreat or desist from efforts to effect the arrest, or from efforts to prevent the escape from custody, of a person he reasonably believes to have committed an offense because of resistance or threatened resistance of the arrestee. In addition to the use of physical force authorized under other sections of this chapter, he is, subject to the provisions of subsections 2 and 3, justified in the use of such physical force as he reasonably believes is immediately necessary to effect the arrest or to prevent the escape from custody.

2. The use of any physical force in making an arrest is not justified under this section unless the arrest is lawful or the law enforcement officer reasonably believes the arrest is lawful.

3. A law enforcement officer in effecting an arrest or in preventing an escape from custody is justified in using deadly force only

(1) When such is authorized under other sections of this chapter; or

(2) When he reasonably believes that such use of deadly force is immediately necessary to effect the arrest and also reasonably believes that the person to be arrested

(a) Has committed or attempted to commit a felony; or

(b) Is attempting to escape by use of a deadly weapon; or

© May otherwise endanger life or inflict serious physical injury unless arrested without delay.

4. The defendant shall have the burden of injecting the issue of justification under this section.

 

Under this, whatever happened at the convenience store is completely irrelevant. Assuming that the case can be made that Brown assaulted the police officer (treated for a swollen face), that's the felony. Considering Brown's sheer size, it seems likely that the case can be made that the officer thought he wouldn't be able to take him into custody without shooting him. So legally, what this seems likely to come down to is whether Brown actually attempted to surrender, as some witnesses say, or whether he did not, as I presume the officer will say. I would think a good scene reconstruction should pretty well settle that.

An aside: I think that statute is far too broad when it comes to matters of life and death. I don't want to bury police officers in red tape over every decision, but there doesn't appear to be any sort of encouragement in that statute for deadly force to be a last resort, as it should be.

The shoplifting allegations that I have seen do not change the calculus for justification of force in the slightest.

The photos make it pretty obvious that the subject assaulted the employee in the course of his theft - how does that not elevate the crime from theft to robbery?

In any case, the point I was making regarding context didn't have anything to do with the use of force, just that earlier speculation that this came about because an officer decided to hassle a couple of black kids for walking in the road is now confirmed to be wrong. Not a huge development, but a significant one.

 

Nevermind the reports from the officer that this individual assaulted the officer and tried to take his gun, that's justification for deadly force folks.

That's not accurate.

 

Wouldn't it depend, carl? I mean if a someone and an officer are actively grappling over the officer's gun, I would think the officer would rightly feel that his life was in imminent danger.

In the Ferguson case, though, I'm going to be very interested to hear what the explanation is for needing to shoot the Brown kid 35 feet from the patrol car, where the initial encounter apparently took place. I'm not going to say he's guilty before the evidence is in, but I've thought long and hard about timeline of the incident - physical altercation at the car, shot(s) fired in the car, Brown eventually gets shot again 35 feet from the car - and I can't think of a legitimate reason to have needed to kill him. Depending on the circumstances, the initial shots at the car could've been legitimate, but the ones 35 ft from the car? I could be wrong, maybe there's a good explanation, but I'm struggling to come up with one.

Also, according to Ferguson police, Brown and his friend were wanted for robbing a convenience store earlier that day. That doesn't mean the cop is off the hook by a long shot, but it does add important context to what initiated the confrontation in the first place.

+1, good post.

I typically try to go to two home games and one away game.

Reasons I don't go to more:

- I spend at least half of my fall weekends hunting

-While each have their benefits and drawbacks, I can't honestly say I enjoy being there in person any more than watching on TV

-When I enjoy watching from home as much as being there....well one option is about $100 cheaper a game than the other.

That said, with all the regular tickets sold, the streak won't end this year. How this season goes will determine if we're having this conversation a year from now.

The schedule should give us a bit of a lift next year. BYU, Wisky, NW, MSU, and Iowa is about as good as our 2012 home slate and light years better than this year's.

 

The scene tonight in Ferguson is vastly different

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/14/with-highway-patrol-hugs-and-kisses-replace-tear-gas-in-ferguson/

 

Incredible what can happen when a police force chooses to lead and respect the public rather than intimidate them. Too bad this wasn't be the operating procedure from the beginning.

 

Hopefully the calm holds through the night. At least the tone seems to be changing. The SWAT gear in broad daylight was ridiculous.

It would appear that the state patrol made an excellent choice in the captain they sent to calm things down.

We're seeing a confluence of factors, I think, a lot of them listed already: TV, stadium expansion, widespread sense the program has stagnated, etc. Crappy, crappy home slate isn't helping this year, either. If we could just manage one stinking conference title, that'd probably take care of these concerns for another 5 years or so.

Or the grocery store, you always run into people and they want to talk to you and it's a disaster

 

Salespeople. At NFM, trying to pick out a couch and....."can I help you, sir?"

Ugh. Away you vampires!

Luke, never thought you'd consider yourself an introvert - you do a very good job of expressing yourself on the forum - but yes one doesn't need to be an extrovert to put together thoughtful responses and posts

 

I agree with your assessment of Obama. GWB, Carter were rather intense as well - maybe not introverted but very intense.

 

Haha, the compliment is appreciated, but yeah, introverts don't necessarily struggle to express themselves and aren't necessarily even socially awkward. In my case, it's mainly finding social interaction tiring and being quiet around people I don't know - and probably socially awkward too. I'm a geek and embrace it.

If Bill didn't have the legal issues - Monica gate, etc - I think he would have aged the least - I think he & Reagan had the personality for the position perhaps more than most of the others.

I think Reagan and Clinton relished the job. Obama in particular strikes me as more introverted and at times seems exasperated by the hoops he has to jump through. As an introvert, I sympathize.

O_o

I think maybe I'll stick to Rib Fest in Lincoln this weekend.

I don't fully understand all of the insider lingo this article uses, but uh...yikes.

I don't know if it's the quality of the photos, a sign of the times, or just the individual men, but Bush and Obama seem to have gotten hit especially hard.