Average Joe

 

 

 

 

Gotta admit I'm wary of people attempting the "help me understand" approach when they don't seem to mean it.

 

Despite or because of your super politeness, Joe, I'm getting that vibe from you.

 

Please don't pretend people misinterpreted Post #868 & #870. You're laying out some very pass-aggressive sh#t.

Lots of people pretend they want to know the issues, but won't put in the effort to actually find out. Or know and don't care so they deflect with "I don't like how they protest, so I'm going to ignore it."

 

 

Ok... there were multiple questions within my post. Well then let's remove sarcasm from my post (for your sake). Now please explain the "pretty fine" portion of your post and how it relates to mine. Thanks

 

 

First, the end game is progress and awareness. Even if MRI never kneels again he will have accomplished this in his own small context, and will not be a hypocrite for stopping.

 

 

Second, the University would care and give time and due diligence in listening to anyone with real perceived slights or injustices.

Ok. That is totally fine. Thank you for fully answering some questions.

 

1)So this is a protest to raise awareness. No problem. Will he tell us when we are all aware?

 

2) can I get a list of these "real" injustices? I just want to make sure my injustices are as "real" as the next persons. Does the university have this in writing. I just want to make sure that if they tell me NO, I can say but Landlord said you would listen...

1. When you pull your head out of your ass, you will become aware. Then hopefully, we can all make some progress.

 

2. Do your own homework. Google "white privilege". Read the report from Ferguson that lays out the racist policies carried out by the police. https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf

 

Fergusons law enforcement practices are shaped by the Citys focus on revenue rather than by public safety needs. This emphasis on revenue has compromised the institutional character of Fergusons police department, contributing to a pattern of unconstitutional policing, and has also shaped its municipal court leading to proceedures that raise due process concerns and inflict unnecessary harm on members of the Ferguson community. Further, Fergusons police and municipal court practices both reflect and exacerbate existing racial bias, including racial stereotypes. Fergusons own data establish clear racial disparities that adversely impact African Americans. The evidence shows that discriminatory intent is part of the reason for the disparities. Over time, Fergusons police and municipal court practices have sown deep mistrust between parts of the community and the police department, undermining law enforcement legitimacy among African Americans in particular.

Odd. I thought I stuck pretty much to what I thought could have made the protest better, I did not want it go to personal attacks. Are we through with civil talking? If so, I would like to stay on the board but will not respond to personal attacks, I do not think that helps.

The protests pretty much accomplished what they were supposed to accomplish.

 

If you didn't want to be attacked personally, you shouldn't have posted crap like "these 'real' injustices" and "Will he tell us when we're all aware?" Statements like that show you have no interest in the actual issues and you're just feigning outrage at the protester's methods to deflect.

 

And I couldn't care less if you stay on the board or not. If you actually want to discuss issues in an intelligent and mature manner, great. Quit with the passive aggressive BS and join the adults.

Not true Jim.

 

 

Gotta admit I'm wary of people attempting the "help me understand" approach when they don't seem to mean it.

 

Despite or because of your super politeness, Joe, I'm getting that vibe from you.

 

Please don't pretend people misinterpreted Post #868 & #870. You're laying out some very pass-aggressive sh#t.

Lots of people pretend they want to know the issues, but won't put in the effort to actually find out. Or know and don't care so they deflect with "I don't like how they protest, so I'm going to ignore it."

 

 

Ok... there were multiple questions within my post. Well then let's remove sarcasm from my post (for your sake). Now please explain the "pretty fine" portion of your post and how it relates to mine. Thanks

 

 

First, the end game is progress and awareness. Even if MRI never kneels again he will have accomplished this in his own small context, and will not be a hypocrite for stopping.

 

 

Second, the University would care and give time and due diligence in listening to anyone with real perceived slights or injustices.

Ok. That is totally fine. Thank you for fully answering some questions.

 

1)So this is a protest to raise awareness. No problem. Will he tell us when we are all aware?

 

2) can I get a list of these "real" injustices? I just want to make sure my injustices are as "real" as the next persons. Does the university have this in writing. I just want to make sure that if they tell me NO, I can say but Landlord said you would listen...

1. When you pull your head out of your ass, you will become aware. Then hopefully, we can all make some progress.

 

2. Do your own homework. Google "white privilege". Read the report from Ferguson that lays out the racist policies carried out by the police. https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf

Fergusons law enforcement practices are shaped by the Citys focus on revenue rather than by public safety needs. This emphasis on revenue has compromised the institutional character of Fergusons police department, contributing to a pattern of unconstitutional policing, and has also shaped its municipal court leading to proceedures that raise due process concerns and inflict unnecessary harm on members of the Ferguson community. Further, Fergusons police and municipal court practices both reflect and exacerbate existing racial bias, including racial stereotypes. Fergusons own data establish clear racial disparities that adversely impact African Americans. The evidence shows that discriminatory intent is part of the reason for the disparities. Over time, Fergusons police and municipal court practices have sown deep mistrust between parts of the community and the police department, undermining law enforcement legitimacy among African Americans in particular.

Odd. I thought I stuck pretty much to what I thought could have made the protest better, I did not want it go to personal attacks. Are we through with civil talking? If so, I would like to stay on the board but will not respond to personal attacks, I do not think that helps.

Joe, I think that it is obvious that you have not read any of the previous conversation in this thread. Most of the point you are making has already been made by others, multiple times, discussed, argued, debated, ad nauseum.

 

Not that you don't have the right to post your opinions, but if you are that interested, feel free to read the entire thread.

Honestly did not read the entire 18 pages. My apologizes but received questions on my original post so felt obligated to explain myself.

 

 

 

If Michael Rose-Ivey had done everything you just outlined, the same people who want politics out of football not to mention the covert and overt racists would have been just as upset with MRI, and possibly moreso.

So your calling me racist. Isn't that the same line of thinking that MRI experience when he expressed his first amendment? Umm pot meet kettle.. so I'm a racist for wanting to hear all sides? And you know this for a fact that there would be a bigger outcry.. ok

 

I don't at all think he was referring to you as being racist. He's just disagreeing that the hypothetical scenario of actions you laid out would have been much different as far as the amount of people upset with it.

Ok. If that is the case. That is his opinion, I respect that.

If Michael Rose-Ivey had done everything you just outlined, the same people who want politics out of football not to mention the covert and overt racists would have been just as upset with MRI, and possibly moreso.

So your calling me racist. Isn't that the same line of thinking that MRI experience when he expressed his first amendment? Umm pot meet kettle.. so I'm a racist for wanting to hear all sides? And you know this for a fact that there would be a bigger outcry.. ok

 

I would try to sell a unifying idea that everyone can get behind and leave no assumptions with my actions.

 

Give us your exact idea. What specific, very specific, action could you (or anyone) have taken that would have presented the same theme without causing dissent? I would be shocked if a universally unifying protest is even possible. Is that even a protest? Isn't that just shouting into the echo chamber of like minds?

So basically what your asking is how would I have done this DISCLAIMER: I am for MRI and the first amendment, that was never the issue. The issue was the platform and forum.

So we can say I would have approximately 6 weeks before my first opportunity to kneel given the timeline of Colin K.s first. I am a Nebraska football player so people do have respect for that.

I start off with a series of Tweets, because we know media will pick it up. In those tweets I express something to the effect of I understand why Kap has knelt and have thought of doing something similar. Just dangle the possibility. Media will pick it up

Then I move to interviews after practice where I basically say the same thing but add in "man, I really wish NU had something or someone I could talk to about this" "I would really like to be an ambassador or liaison to help educate Nebraskans".

For weeks I would continue this, reaching out to various media outlets and even law enforcement. Get the media to cover this. Seperate myself from the predictable action everyone is doing and talk about how you love this country because of opportunities. I do speeches at high schools. Appear on ESPN (there is always a feel good story on Gamedays). I request meetings with authority figures. Invite the paper. Take photos.

I don't kneel because that has the possibility of yes removing racists (which is fine) but I don't alienate those who are simply discourage at you showing possible disrespect for the flag. They should not be lumped in the same category. I request a meeting with congress to let them know I am serious and not someone who just follows.

Agree you won't get everyone but you won't loose those disgruntled about the flag stance.

If the protest was to raise awareness and create a path to better understanding, it has been 100% successful so far.

 

Or from another perspective, the division was already there, but some people didn't want to talk about it. Which isn't such a great alternative.

I agree if the endstate is awareness, yep for sure Nebraska is now aware, but at what cost? Could this have been a better following if it wasn't against the flag, in uniform, as a guest to another school? I would say that is a better possibility. I guess to get my point across if I was protesting, I would try to sell a unifying idea that everyone can get behind and leave no assumptions with my actions.

 

Love MLK and I think he is right on a lot of things, for that time and protest. This is not a protest (if he is kneeling like Colin K.) about segregation or equal rights. It's not about an institutionalized separation of races. It's a perceived belief that black Americans are being systematically targeted by first white cops, then suddenly all cops.

 

There were no avenues for protest for MLK. That (in my belief) does not exist as much today with open doors and social media. If a Nebraska Football Player wants to be heard in Nebraska, fans will listen. The way to remove half of your potential base is by having them disagree.

Fair enough, I would just say two things. First, institutional racial inequality and the disproportionate lethal attention by law enforcement are inextricably intertwined, and both part of the point of all of this, and second that I'd respectfully disagree that MLK had no avenues for protest. I think (and I am not accusing you of this), for too many people, the regrettable conclusion isn't that they disagree with the method or the time/place as they say, but that they really just disagree with the fact that there is protest period. Maybe someone will come up with an effective way in the future that those who disagree with the message of will find to be a perfectly reasonable means of protesting, but I severely doubt that.

It is a shame that black Americans and law enforcement clash or at least seems that way more than most. I think we a society take a collective step backwards when one side tries to "win". Police are doing themselves no favors with recent actions, in turn black Americans are doing themselves no favors with protests that turn violent.

Who knows maybe MRI is the next MLK. I do hope that he goes the same route and makes a unifying speech and not a dividing action.

MRI did get a collective clap from fans, at Saturday's game. I don't think he's the one who needs to learn a lesson from this.

 

Protests aren't meant to unify the public. They're meant to point out a flaw. Would it be great if everyone were on the same side? Yes. But then either the protest would be useless or there would be no reason to protest.

You make it seem like "learning a lesson" is a bad thing and should only be used for those in opposition.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I seriously value your input. But why does a protest have divide the public? Again, the collective clap could be for the right to free speech but against the forum, correct? Does it have to be for or against?

 

At the same token I hope that NU comes out and says that while yes we and the state agree that the first amendment is good, there are ways to get your voice heard without pitting the fan base against each other. I think if a headline came out and said MRI is using these avenues to get his voice out there, you would have a collective clap from all fans.

 

Ultimately, great discussion but poor method of delivery. both sides won and both sides lost in my mind but time will tell

From MLK Jr.'s letter from a Birmingham jail, with my own emphasis added.

 

 

I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

 

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

Love MLK and I think he is right on a lot of things, for that time and protest. This is not a protest (if he is kneeling like Colin K.) about segregation or equal rights. It's not about an institutionalized separation of races. It's a perceived belief that black Americans are being systematically targeted by first white cops, then suddenly all cops.

There were no avenues for protest for MLK. That (in my belief) does not exist as much today with open doors and social media. If a Nebraska Football Player wants to be heard in Nebraska, fans will listen. The way to remove half of your potential base is by having them disagree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok... there were multiple questions within my post. Well then let's remove sarcasm from my post (for your sake). Now please explain the "pretty fine" portion of your post and how it relates to mine. Thanks

 

 

First, the end game is progress and awareness. Even if MRI never kneels again he will have accomplished this in his own small context, and will not be a hypocrite for stopping.

 

 

Second, the University would care and give time and due diligence in listening to anyone with real perceived slights or injustices.

Ok. That is totally fine. Thank you for fully answering some questions.

 

1)So this is a protest to raise awareness. No problem. Will he tell us when we are all aware?

 

2) can I get a list of these "real" injustices? I just want to make sure my injustices are as "real" as the next persons. Does the university have this in writing. I just want to make sure that if they tell me NO, I can say but Landlord said you would listen...

Call me crazy, but based on your snide remarks, I think his protest, and our support of it was directed at people like you.

I think you miss understand due to text. I am all for the second amendment. Now the "people like you" remark is putting me in a box saying I'm for one side and not the other. That negates the discussion and ultimately the whole protest. Not true. And your assumption of "snide" remarks is just that.. your assumption,not my intent. I came here to have a discussion about this and if you don't like questions you can't answer I apologize.

 

Getting back to topic, I am all on board for awareness in the proper forum. I just want to know what the end result is. The awareness portion is great but I'm not going to go halfway in over oppression only to find out when he stands up, there are other things being oppressed. I can say I support his protests and not others being oppressed. Then I would feel like a hypocrite. Also, if he wants to elevate awareness and bring everyone together, maybe he should speak in front of congress. We have representatives there for this. It's a win win. Brings people together for a cause instead of dividing people over the arguments that don't have to do with the action.

 

P.S - If there was a snide remark started, it wasn't by me. Scroll up

Misunderstood the tone of your reply to Landlord. My bad.

 

One of the first significant actionable steps that is happening as a result of this is his meeting with Ricketts this week. That's probably a good first step locally, and I'm sure he will continue to take steps with guidance as to what is practical and manageable considering he is a student first and foremost.

After looking yes that does look snide. I do apologize for that and to you Landlord if it came off that way. I enjoy the good discussion in order to peacefully come to common ground.

I do hope you are correct with the Gov. visit and that it yields results. And I hope MRI learns a valuable lesson as well some fans.

At the same token I hope that NU comes out and says that while yes we and the state agree that the first amendment is good, there are ways to get your voice heard without pitting the fan base against each other. I think if a headline came out and said MRI is using these avenues to get his voice out there, you would have a collective clap from all fans.

Ultimately, great discussion but poor method of delivery. both sides won and both sides lost in my mind but time will tell

 

 

 

 

Ok... there were multiple questions within my post. Well then let's remove sarcasm from my post (for your sake). Now please explain the "pretty fine" portion of your post and how it relates to mine. Thanks

 

 

First, the end game is progress and awareness. Even if MRI never kneels again he will have accomplished this in his own small context, and will not be a hypocrite for stopping.

 

 

Second, the University would care and give time and due diligence in listening to anyone with real perceived slights or injustices.

Ok. That is totally fine. Thank you for fully answering some questions.

 

1)So this is a protest to raise awareness. No problem. Will he tell us when we are all aware?

 

2) can I get a list of these "real" injustices? I just want to make sure my injustices are as "real" as the next persons. Does the university have this in writing. I just want to make sure that if they tell me NO, I can say but Landlord said you would listen...

Call me crazy, but based on your snide remarks, I think his protest, and our support of it was directed at people like you.

I think you miss understand due to text. I am all for the second amendment. Now the "people like you" remark is putting me in a box saying I'm for one side and not the other. That negates the discussion and ultimately the whole protest. Not true. And your assumption of "snide" remarks is just that.. your assumption,not my intent. I came here to have a discussion about this and if you don't like questions you can't answer I apologize.

Getting back to topic, I am all on board for awareness in the proper forum. I just want to know what the end result is. The awareness portion is great but I'm not going to go halfway in over oppression only to find out when he stands up, there are other things being oppressed. I can say I support his protests and not others being oppressed. Then I would feel like a hypocrite. Also, if he wants to elevate awareness and bring everyone together, maybe he should speak in front of congress. We have representatives there for this. It's a win win. Brings people together for a cause instead of dividing people over the arguments that don't have to do with the action.

P.S - If there was a snide remark started, it wasn't by me. Scroll up

 

 

Ok... there were multiple questions within my post. Well then let's remove sarcasm from my post (for your sake). Now please explain the "pretty fine" portion of your post and how it relates to mine. Thanks

 

 

First, the end game is progress and awareness. Even if MRI never kneels again he will have accomplished this in his own small context, and will not be a hypocrite for stopping.

 

 

Second, the University would care and give time and due diligence in listening to anyone with real perceived slights or injustices.

Ok. That is totally fine. Thank you for fully answering some questions.

1)So this is a protest to raise awareness. No problem. Will he tell us when we are all aware?

2) can I get a list of these "real" injustices? I just want to make sure my injustices are as "real" as the next persons. Does the university have this in writing. I just want to make sure that if they tell me NO, I can say but Landlord said you would listen...

Ok... there were multiple questions within my post. Well then let's remove sarcasm from my post (for your sake). Now please explain the "pretty fine" portion of your post and how it relates to mine. Thanks

The only way it is a slippery slope is when you're being sarcastic. In reality it's pretty fine.

Long time lurker: I completely understand the right to protest. No issues here as long as freedom of speech goes both ways and that freedom of choice is just that freedom of choice, no matter what side of the fence you are on.

I just don't understand, and maybe someone can explain their thoughts but what is the endgame? Is it change of policy? Awareness? What I am saying is I think by doing this in uniform with the facts and reasons muddied for different angles, how can you ever stand up again? Wouldn't that seem hypocritical to fact that you have just taken on an ambassador role as to when oppression is happening and when it isn't.

That being said and on the lighter side, say someone "feels" as if oppression is happening for any number of reasons, will NU provide a forum/press conference for the most minuscule of feelings of being oppressed?

So hypothetically if "insert name" feels that his/her sandwich was dry and was not afforded the same sandwich as everyone else, and NU doesn't offer the same forum.. so NU doesn't care about this students "feelings" but only football players? I am being sarcastic but what I am saying is that it's a slippery slope. 2cents completed.

There is some stuff in this thread that honestly boggles my mind.

Long time lurker: I completely understand the right to protest. No issues here as long as freedom of speech goes both ways and that freedom of choice is just that freedom of choice, no matter what side of the fence you are on.

I just don't understand, and maybe someone can explain their thoughts but what is the endgame? Is it change of policy? Awareness? What I am saying is I think by doing this in uniform with the facts and reasons muddied for different angles, how can you ever stand up again? Wouldn't that seem hypocritical to fact that you have just taken on an ambassador role as to when oppression is happening and when it isn't.

That being said and on the lighter side, say someone "feels" as if oppression is happening for any number of reasons, will NU provide a forum/press conference for the most minuscule of feelings of being oppressed?

So hypothetically if "insert name" feels that his/her sandwich was dry and was not afforded the same sandwich as everyone else, and NU doesn't offer the same forum.. so NU doesn't care about this students "feelings" but only football players? I am being sarcastic but what I am saying is that it's a slippery slope. 2cents completed.