Apsu

12 hours ago, ZRod said:

Then we'll assume they don't exist, because they were not important enough for you to find again.

Go ahead, assume away.

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

You do realize this was in behalf of the us government and most of our European allies....2 years before his son was put on the board. 

What makes you suspect influence peddling?

2 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

On behalf of the US government. You keep leaving that part out. If it wasn't Biden it would have been another US official.

Hunter Biden was not a US official, he was the son of the VP at the time.

19 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Ehhh you investigate if you believe a crime has been committed to determine the guilty party. What is the crime? You can't just investigate someone to go fishing for a crime. People are under investigation for specific crimes not to see if they have committed any. Example 'you are under investigation for stealing' there is always a crime attatched to the investigation. Thats how things work here.

We have been over this at least a half dozen times.

I find it frustrating how Democrats cannot fathom that Biden may have done something wrong.

I find it frustrating how Rupublicans cannot fathom that Trump may have done something wrong.

7 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

There typically is enough to at least suspect what crime has been committed. 

Do you know what is being suspected?

I do not have inside info, but I would suspect some sort of influence peddling.

14 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

How long does it have to remain "potential" for us to declare there's nothing there?  All the evidence is out.

After an investigation.

Biden did get the guy fired. He was or should have been investigating a company, and Biden's son was placed on the BoD.

12 hours ago, knapplc said:

Have you guys heard about the corruption in the Trump Regime?

It is legendary.

But the potential Biden scandal occurred before he was elected.

14 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

You think removing a corrupt AG, who controls [read: can block] any and all prosecution in Ukraine, is somehow a bad thing for the Ukrainian people?

How would it go over if a foreign government demanded that we fire an appointed official that they deemed to be corrupt?

14 hours ago, Decoy73 said:

Sure they would. Some are so far left or so far right, they will never be objective. But unless there was illegal activity, no point in investigating the Bidens.   

The point of an investigation is to determine if a crime has been committed.

33 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

So I'll ask again since we still have't gotten a straight answer after being assured something was there...what is the crime???

The point of an investigation is to determine if a crime has been committed.

7 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

No worries. It was for the silent people who read this forum but won't partake in the conversation.

I'm still taking notes on who is who.

I want to be a Democrat, but can't with the current leadership and direction of that party.

6 hours ago, Nebfanatic said:

Ok but while that may not be in Ukraines best interest I don't see it as being illegal or corrupt if that was the US's objective

I don't see regime change wars to be in the interest of the American people, but they are in the interest of our banks, defense companies and energy companies. "We the People" are paying for this, but are not benefiting.

5 hours ago, ZRod said:

I'm sure you could search the sites you previously used.

Search engine algorythems have changed, old stories got buried, and some sites were blocked by Google and Yahoo.

And to be honest, with three young children including two infant twins, I really don't have the motivation to look.

4 hours ago, NM11046 said:

In another week you'll have it all figured out in here - it does take a little bit of time to get the tone of some posters and understand the sarcasm (if intended).  I remember doing a lot of swinging back when I first stumbled in here, and then I realized it was me being pretty proactive.

Thanks, it will take a while.

FWIW I am 2/3 Progressive, 1/3 Libertarian, and 0% Democrat or Republican. I don't trust either major party, or the media.

5 hours ago, Decoy73 said:

For what purpose?  What US law was potentially broken?

Replace the name Hunter Biden with one of Trump's sleazy children, and some would call it impeachable collusion.

Just now, ZRod said:

Nothing will be found because the evidence that has been presented so far shows that it would make zero sense for Joe to do what he did if he wanted to enrich his son.

 

Do you have a source for these accusations?

Probably not that I could find without a lot of effort. I read up on the political changes post-Maidan, and most of sources I would have used were buried by search engine algorythems.

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

Why in the world would you presume that was said to you?!?!

I apologize if it was not.
I was the main person here posting criticism of Biden, and many people conclude that if you criticize a Democrat then you are a Republican.

3 minutes ago, commando said:

i just wonder what joe had to gain by placing his sons lucrative job at risk by going after his boss?

As I posted earlier, through the IMF Ukrainian assets were sold off to the west for pennies on the dollar.

That was where the real money was, and i honestly don't know if Joe/Hunter had a role in it through his influence. That is why I would like to see an investigation.

Donald Trump's leadership style mirrors the tone of the Republican primary debates.

Unfortunately as in 2016, the DNC is the main power broker that can get the Donald reelected.

2 minutes ago, commando said:

if i am reading this correctly....joe tried to get hunters boss fired.  and that somehow was suppose to help hunter?

Why was the son of the US VP placed on the board of directors of a company under investigation at $50,000 per month?

His role and its influences should be investigated.

13 hours ago, ZRod said:

 

@Apsu

Again, a small investigation could be done into the Biden connection, but nothing will be found. At this point with all the information that is available it makes zero since for the Biden's to want the prosecutor gone. He was notorious for stonewalling corruption investigations, and it seems he could have been easily paid off. Why risk, in fact demand, that Ukraine bring in someone who was serious about fighting corruption if you think they may come after your team???

I agree, a small investigation would be warranted. And as i said earlier nothing will be found because moneyed interests will prevent that. But it may be enough to knock Joe Biden out of the race, which would be a good thing.

Poor Ukraine will remain corrupt, regardless if the government is pro-NATO or pro-Russia. It is a buffer state between east and west, and unfortunately more proxy wars will be fought there. The status of the Crimea will not change.

Even the Democrat establishment at Daily Kos wants Biden out of the race.

11 hours ago, knapplc said:

Your dope Trump just threatened civil war if he's removed from office.

Ain't nobody taking up arms against the lawful government if a traitor is cast out.

Remember that armed insurrection when Nixon was shown the door for his crimes?

Yeah. That.

Somebody is not reading if they assume that Trump is my dope.

I am no expert in these matters, but when I see this i see smoke. And where there is smoke there is often fire.

I support an investigation into the impeachment of Trump, and I would also like to see a qui--pro-quo investigation on Biden's role here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Shokin

Quote

 

Since 2012, the Ukrainian prosecutor general had been investigating oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky, owner of the oil and natural gas company Burisma Holdings, over allegations of money laundering, tax evasion, and corruption. In 2014, then-U.S. Vice President Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, joined the board of directors of Burisma Holdings. In 2015, Shokin became the prosecutor general, inheriting the investigation. The Obama administration and other governments and non-governmental organizations soon became concerned that Shokin was not adequately pursuing corruption in Ukraine, was protecting the political elite, and was regarded as "an obstacle to anti-corruption efforts". Among other issues, he was slow-walking the investigation into Zlochevsky and Burisma, to the extent that Obama officials were considering launching their own criminal investigation into the company for possible money laundering.

In March 2016, Joe Biden threatened Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko that if he did not fire Shokin, that the US would hold back its $1 billion in loan guarantees. "I looked at them and said, 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money.' He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time." Shokin was dismissed by Parliament later that month.

Shokin claimed in May 2019 that he had been investigating Burisma Holdings. However, Vitaliy Kasko, who had been Shokin's deputy overseeing international cooperation before resigning in February 2016 citing corruption in the office, provided documents to Bloomberg News indicating that under Shokin, the investigation into Burisma had been dormant. Hunter Biden's ties to Burisma Holdings was criticized as a conflict of interest in a New York Times editorial, though Amos Hochstein has claimed to have never seen coordination between Joe Biden and his son on the matter.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden

Quote

In the aftermath of the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, Mykola Zlochevsky assembled a "high-profile international board" to oversee his oil and gas company, Burisma Holdings, the largest natural gas producer in Ukraine. Among those who joined the board of directors in 2014 were Biden and former Polish president Aleksander Kwasniewski. Biden served on the board of Burisma until his term expired in April 2019, receiving compensation of up to $50,000 a month. Because Vice President Biden played a major role in U.S. policy towards Ukraine, some Ukrainian anti-corruption advocates and Obama administration officials expressed concern that Hunter Biden's having joined the board could create the appearance of a conflict of interest and undermine Vice President Biden's anti-corruption work in Ukraine. While serving as vice president, Joe Biden joined other Western leaders in encouraging the government of Ukraine to fire the country's top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, who was widely criticized for blocking corruption investigations. The Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Shokin in March 2016.

13 hours ago, ZRod said:

 

@Apsu

What are you even arguing here? A corrupt official in Ukraine was forced out do to Biden and the EU exerting pressure on a Ukraine that needed, and wanted, their help. The EU and Ukraine have been working to become closer for decades, in ways that will be mutually beneficial.

I am a loyal and patriotic American citizen, but I am under no illusion that our corporations and the political leadership beholden to them (such as Trump, Biden, Clinton, etc) are as corrupt as heck, and are not working for the good of the Ukrainian people.

3 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

No hard feelings. It's a pretty diverse group on this board all things considered. I'm interested to see how it goes as well. Trump clearly should be removed imo, but obviously its not likely that the Senate will convict. Furthmore, will the Democrats actually do some damage with this? They need to have their ducks in a row and focus on one thing. Not sure they can do that.

I really despise Trump, but in the line of succession there are no viable options.

I would rather see him removed in 2020 by a better candidate.