2021-2022 Season Notes

Mavric said:
A few stats to consider amongst all the Verge hate:

Highest Player Efficiency Rating on the team

Most Defensive Win Shares on the team

Third-most Win Shares on the team (Walker, BMcGowens)

Second-best Plus/Minus on the team (Tominaga)
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A lot of the "hate" is because he's playing out of position as a point guard.  His assist to turnover ratio is under 1.5.  A true point should be north of 2 & elite would be 3+.

 
ECisGod said:
A lot of the "hate" is because he's playing out of position as a point guard.  His assist to turnover ratio is under 1.5.  A true point should be north of 2 & elite would be 3+.
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The guy leading the country in assists is 2.1:1.  The #2 guy in the country is 1.6:1.  Neither play in a major conference.  

I only see two guys north of 3:1.  Neither play in a major conference.  So, yes, that is elite. But not really a standard by which to be judged.

The major conference guys with the top assists per game are at 2.3, 2.3, 1.9, 1.8, 2.3, 2.9, 1.4 then Verge at 1.48:1.  Only one of them averages more points than Verge.

So either there are only about four "true" point guards in the country or your standards are inflated.

 
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More outdated than inflated due to the evolution of the game. Most pgs are scorers than pass first now. And if a pg can't shoot it makes it harder for a pass first pg to rack up assists. But you know all of this.

 
seaofred92 said:
Hmmmm

https://theathletic.com/3048313/2022/01/06/2022-nba-mock-draft-4-0-jabari-smith-jr-leaps-to-no-1-but-team-with-top-pick-might-matter-more-than-ever/
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@Mavric So, what has changed since this?  At this point in the season, there was legitimate reason for criticism.  I'm guessing that, other than the Northwestern game that was a pathetic effort, maybe he has improved with this issue.  Maybe it's the addition of Trey and so Verge doesn't think he needs to do everything....which actually allows him to be more effective.

In the month of december, he was averaging 16 points per game.  Since then, he's been averaging 11.  Maybe coaching and the addition of Trey has had him change his game which has improved the stats you are looking at.

 
BigRedBuster said:
@Mavric So, what has changed since this?  At this point in the season, there was legitimate reason for criticism.  I'm guessing that, other than the Northwestern game that was a pathetic effort, maybe he has improved with this issue.  Maybe it's the addition of Trey and so Verge doesn't think he needs to do everything....which actually allows him to be more effective.

In the month of december, he was averaging 16 points per game.  Since then, he's been averaging 11.  Maybe coaching and the addition of Trey has had him change his game which has improved the stats you are looking at.
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My guess is it's just looking at two different sets of data.  I'm not saying Verge is my favorite player, just that he's better than many are making him out to be.  He's basically become the scapegoat that Martinez was to the football team - everything gets blamed on him when a lot of it is issues with the entire team.

On those stats specifically, the ones from back in January are basically reflections of team offensive scoring efficiency.  He definitely has a tendency to be a ball-stopper so I'm not surprised that our efficiency can suffer when that happens more.  But it was also only looking at two players on the court together.  It didn't take into account any difference in any other players on the floor with them, which might not have been equal.  And it was only looking at offense.

The stats I posted above are more of a complete look at everything that goes into winning games - both offense and defense.  His Win Shares are definitely boosted by the defensive stats - he was farther down the list in offensive win shares.  And plus/minus obviously takes both sides into account.  

 
desertshox said:
More outdated than inflated due to the evolution of the game. Most pgs are scorers than pass first now. And if a pg can't shoot it makes it harder for a pass first pg to rack up assists. But you know all of this.
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My assessment may be outdated, but he is definitely not a point guard.  In the Minnesota game where he is being universally praised, he had more turnovers (5) than assists (4).  I understand that he would have had more assists if Mayen would have caught some of the passes he made that would have lead to layups, but part of being a good point is understanding who you are passing to.  He also took some horrible shots, they just happened to go in (the pull up three & the 18 foot fade away come to mind).

I'm guessing defensive win shares over values steals and doesn't take into account that he does a horrible job of fighting through/over screens.  

I'm not saying he's not a really good player, but I don't see him as a good point guard.

 
was a big fan of Hoiberg at iowa loved the bball but not really sure whats going on defensively. too many 90 point losses sportsbetting3.com had great odds at the start of the season.

 
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BigRedBuster said:
It's just sad that one of these is being wasted on a horrible season.
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Yep.

Great for the women to be able to look to continue building for the future.

And it's compounded for the men by knowing all that means is a bigger hole to dig out of next year....

 
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