Atheism

[Ponderosa]

What would it take to convince you of a Skoopwind Farzlenogger? What's in your brain regarding a Skoopwind Farzlenogger? What would you need to see, feel, hear, touch, experience to believe in a Skoopwind Farzlenogger, a generic Skoopwind Farzlenogger?

Now you're just getting snotty and evasive. I knew it wouldn't last.

So some made up word is equivalent to the concept of god? Thousands of years of...oh never mind.

Good night.

Of what?

Of nature and science pointing up the follies of organized religion? Of fear used to suppress peasants and convince them to go to war?

EDIT: Or let me put it another way: There are world religions that have been around longer than Christianity with billions of followers. You can't all be right. At some point, most will have to concede that they have been wrong for "thousands of years", and eventually, the last one will concede to that too.

Nope not religion. Just god(s).

Thousands of years of debate, contemplation, discussion, and writings regarding god.

I'm pretty sure Husker_x just made up or found the words Skoopwind Farzlenogger.

As imprecise as language is - god is sufficiently defined for a person to understand the word in their own context. Even if the existence of god is rejected.

I can drag out the tree analogy if you wish.

I gather you're not a huge fan of religion?

Sort of. It is hard for me to accept the existence of a God, but I value my religious upbringing for the cultural and traditional sense of it and how it has defined me and my family, but that's as far as it goes. I think religion has worn out its usefulness and that my generation is probably going to be the last religious generation.

Perhaps in the West.

It will be interesting to watch as your generation has children. Not a prediciton. I'm just curious.

Giving up one's history, culture and tradition for pure logic. I wonder how many will find it to be a good trade?

 

[Manhattan]

What would it take to convince you of a Skoopwind Farzlenogger? What's in your brain regarding a Skoopwind Farzlenogger? What would you need to see, feel, hear, touch, experience to believe in a Skoopwind Farzlenogger, a generic Skoopwind Farzlenogger?

Now you're just getting snotty and evasive. I knew it wouldn't last.

So some made up word is equivalent to the concept of god? Thousands of years of...oh never mind.

Good night.

Of what?

Of nature and science pointing up the follies of organized religion? Of fear used to suppress peasants and convince them to go to war?

EDIT: Or let me put it another way: There are world religions that have been around longer than Christianity with billions of followers. You can't all be right. At some point, most will have to concede that they have been wrong for "thousands of years", and eventually, the last one will concede to that too.

Nope not religion. Just god(s).

Thousands of years of debate, contemplation, discussion, and writings regarding god.

I'm pretty sure Husker_x just made up or found the words Skoopwind Farzlenogger.

As imprecise as language is - god is sufficiently defined for a person to understand the word in their own context. Even if the existence of god is rejected.

I can drag out the tree analogy if you wish.

I gather you're not a huge fan of religion?

Sort of. It is hard for me to accept the existence of a God, but I value my religious upbringing for the cultural and traditional sense of it and how it has defined me and my family, but that's as far as it goes. I think religion has worn out its usefulness and that my generation is probably going to be the last religious generation.

Perhaps in the West.

It will be interesting to watch as your generation has children. Not a prediciton. I'm just curious.

Giving up one's history, culture and tradition for pure logic. I wonder how many will find it to be a good trade?

Fortunately, those things are not just rooted in religion for me. There is plenty of history, culture, and tradition that I hold onto that has nothing to do with religion. What I find funny is how many "religious" traditions also have nothing to do with religion.

 

[Husker_x]

What would it take to convince you of a Skoopwind Farzlenogger? What's in your brain regarding a Skoopwind Farzlenogger? What would you need to see, feel, hear, touch, experience to believe in a Skoopwind Farzlenogger, a generic Skoopwind Farzlenogger?

Now you're just getting snotty and evasive. I knew it wouldn't last.

So some made up word is equivalent to the concept of god? Thousands of years of...oh never mind.

Good night.

Of what?

Of nature and science pointing up the follies of organized religion? Of fear used to suppress peasants and convince them to go to war?

EDIT: Or let me put it another way: There are world religions that have been around longer than Christianity with billions of followers. You can't all be right. At some point, most will have to concede that they have been wrong for "thousands of years", and eventually, the last one will concede to that too.

Nope not religion. Just god(s).

Thousands of years of debate, contemplation, discussion, and writings regarding god.

I'm pretty sure Husker_x just made up or found the words Skoopwind Farzlenogger.

As imprecise as language is - god is sufficiently defined for a person to understand the word in their own context. Even if the existence of god is rejected.

I can drag out the tree analogy if you wish.

I gather you're not a huge fan of religion?

Sort of. It is hard for me to accept the existence of a God, but I value my religious upbringing for the cultural and traditional sense of it and how it has defined me and my family, but that's as far as it goes. I think religion has worn out its usefulness and that my generation is probably going to be the last religious generation.

Perhaps in the West.

It will be interesting to watch as your generation has children. Not a prediciton. I'm just curious.

Giving up one's history, culture and tradition for pure logic. I wonder how many will find it to be a good trade?

Fortunately, those things are not just rooted in religion for me. There is plenty of history, culture, and tradition that I hold onto that has nothing to do with religion. What I find funny is how many "religious" traditions also have nothing to do with religion.

You're absolutely right, and tradition is among the worst reasons to continue anything. Read Shirley Jackon's "The Lottery". Wind the clocks back a thousand years and the 'religious traditions' of the day involved heretic hunts, living in complete servility to either the church itself or kings who ruled by divine right. Someone like me would have probably been killed simply for not thinking like the establishment. Plenty of traditions I don't miss one iota. Religion isn't the sum of culture, and demonstrably not even necessary to it or a healthy society.

 

[Ponderosa]

What would it take to convince you of a Skoopwind Farzlenogger? What's in your brain regarding a Skoopwind Farzlenogger? What would you need to see, feel, hear, touch, experience to believe in a Skoopwind Farzlenogger, a generic Skoopwind Farzlenogger?

Now you're just getting snotty and evasive. I knew it wouldn't last.

So some made up word is equivalent to the concept of god? Thousands of years of...oh never mind.

Good night.

Of what?

Of nature and science pointing up the follies of organized religion? Of fear used to suppress peasants and convince them to go to war?

EDIT: Or let me put it another way: There are world religions that have been around longer than Christianity with billions of followers. You can't all be right. At some point, most will have to concede that they have been wrong for "thousands of years", and eventually, the last one will concede to that too.

Nope not religion. Just god(s).

Thousands of years of debate, contemplation, discussion, and writings regarding god.

I'm pretty sure Husker_x just made up or found the words Skoopwind Farzlenogger.

As imprecise as language is - god is sufficiently defined for a person to understand the word in their own context. Even if the existence of god is rejected.

I can drag out the tree analogy if you wish.

I gather you're not a huge fan of religion?

Sort of. It is hard for me to accept the existence of a God, but I value my religious upbringing for the cultural and traditional sense of it and how it has defined me and my family, but that's as far as it goes. I think religion has worn out its usefulness and that my generation is probably going to be the last religious generation.

Perhaps in the West.

It will be interesting to watch as your generation has children. Not a prediciton. I'm just curious.

Giving up one's history, culture and tradition for pure logic. I wonder how many will find it to be a good trade?

Fortunately, those things are not just rooted in religion for me. There is plenty of history, culture, and tradition that I hold onto that has nothing to do with religion. What I find funny is how many "religious" traditions also have nothing to do with religion.

You're absolutely right, and tradition is among the worst reasons to continue anything. Read Shirley Jackon's "The Lottery". Wind the clocks back a thousand years and the 'religious traditions' of the day involved heretic hunts, living in complete servility to either the church itself or kings who ruled by divine right. Someone like me would have probably been killed simply for not thinking like the establishment. Plenty of traditions I don't miss one iota. Religion isn't the sum of culture, and demonstrably not even necessary to it or a healthy society.

And trashing things just because it is tradition is no better.

So some traditons were horrible - all tradition must be purged?

Demonstrably healty? Where & when?

 

[Husker_x]

What would it take to convince you of a Skoopwind Farzlenogger? What's in your brain regarding a Skoopwind Farzlenogger? What would you need to see, feel, hear, touch, experience to believe in a Skoopwind Farzlenogger, a generic Skoopwind Farzlenogger?

Now you're just getting snotty and evasive. I knew it wouldn't last.

So some made up word is equivalent to the concept of god? Thousands of years of...oh never mind.

Good night.

Of what?

Of nature and science pointing up the follies of organized religion? Of fear used to suppress peasants and convince them to go to war?

EDIT: Or let me put it another way: There are world religions that have been around longer than Christianity with billions of followers. You can't all be right. At some point, most will have to concede that they have been wrong for "thousands of years", and eventually, the last one will concede to that too.

Nope not religion. Just god(s).

Thousands of years of debate, contemplation, discussion, and writings regarding god.

I'm pretty sure Husker_x just made up or found the words Skoopwind Farzlenogger.

As imprecise as language is - god is sufficiently defined for a person to understand the word in their own context. Even if the existence of god is rejected.

I can drag out the tree analogy if you wish.

I gather you're not a huge fan of religion?

Sort of. It is hard for me to accept the existence of a God, but I value my religious upbringing for the cultural and traditional sense of it and how it has defined me and my family, but that's as far as it goes. I think religion has worn out its usefulness and that my generation is probably going to be the last religious generation.

Perhaps in the West.

It will be interesting to watch as your generation has children. Not a prediciton. I'm just curious.

Giving up one's history, culture and tradition for pure logic. I wonder how many will find it to be a good trade?

Fortunately, those things are not just rooted in religion for me. There is plenty of history, culture, and tradition that I hold onto that has nothing to do with religion. What I find funny is how many "religious" traditions also have nothing to do with religion.

You're absolutely right, and tradition is among the worst reasons to continue anything. Read Shirley Jackon's "The Lottery". Wind the clocks back a thousand years and the 'religious traditions' of the day involved heretic hunts, living in complete servility to either the church itself or kings who ruled by divine right. Someone like me would have probably been killed simply for not thinking like the establishment. Plenty of traditions I don't miss one iota. Religion isn't the sum of culture, and demonstrably not even necessary to it or a healthy society.

And trashing things just because it is tradition is no better.

So some traditons were horrible - all tradition must be purged?

Demonstrably healty? Where & when?

Either/or fallacy. Of course all traditions don't have to be purged. It means you have to actually think about what the traditions individually mean and contribute, how they contribute it, and whether or not the tradition is necessary for the contribution at all.

Sweden is commonly cited as a country with around an 80% unbelief rate. Their society is relatively stable, peaceful, and self-reports on happiness are among the highest in the world.

But then a person can be a believer and not subscribe to any traditions, either, so this entire thing amounts to a huge non sequitur.

 

[Husker_x]

I haven't evaded anything. I'm trying to understand your question, which up until now hasn't been phrased clearly. As much as I'd like to telepathically be able to untie knots, I'm not that smart. But I'm not scolding you, or taking personal swipes, or angry, or anything at all. The problem is when we have these kinds of discussions on the internet, I can't interrupt you mid-sentence to ask you to clarify. We have to start over every time something is unclear. So I guess we'll try again.

I re-read the posts. I think perhaps you may have added layers that weren't there.

Ponderosa: So my questions to you…what would you need to see, feel, hear, touch…experience to believe in God?
Husker_x: If by God you mean your god, the Christian God...

And wham! We're off to the races. Even the second paragraph reference Christianity.

Perhaps it justified, more efficient but I think you jump to conclusions.

Turnabout is fair. What phrasing would have made my initial question clear (to an a-a)?

Or is it just the nature of the beast and re-stating is requirement?

So what book(s) or author would best encapsulate your views?

If we are ever in Lincoln at the same time - I'll buy the first round.

You would have to clarify which kind of god-claim we're talking about, that's all. Simply saying 'god' without any context is too broad of a question to be answerable. I went ahead and added different types of claims (or layers) in my response so that I could actually make one.

I don't know that there is one book that encapsulates my views on everything––remember atheism is unrelated to something like scientific naturalism––but here are a couple of my favorite books or essays on the subject.

The End of Faith by Sam Harris is good, certainly better than Letter to a Christian Nation. Thomas Paine's The Age of Reason is one of my all time favorites. I also like Colonel Robert Ingersoll's "Why I am an Agnostic" (by modern definitions he was an atheist––agnostic was a pretty young word at the time). There's a video series I very much enjoyed on youtube by a fellow named AronRa. It's called "The Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism," and though it is mostly geared at fundamentalist types, a lot of the philosophical differences between scientific naturalism and religion are given a nice treatment.

Edit***

I usually call myself a skeptic, so a couple of others that popped into my head were Michael Schermer's Why People Believe Weird Things and Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World.

 

[Ponderosa]

What would it take to convince you of a Skoopwind Farzlenogger? What's in your brain regarding a Skoopwind Farzlenogger? What would you need to see, feel, hear, touch, experience to believe in a Skoopwind Farzlenogger, a generic Skoopwind Farzlenogger?

Now you're just getting snotty and evasive. I knew it wouldn't last.

So some made up word is equivalent to the concept of god? Thousands of years of...oh never mind.

Good night.

Of what?

Of nature and science pointing up the follies of organized religion? Of fear used to suppress peasants and convince them to go to war?

EDIT: Or let me put it another way: There are world religions that have been around longer than Christianity with billions of followers. You can't all be right. At some point, most will have to concede that they have been wrong for "thousands of years", and eventually, the last one will concede to that too.

Nope not religion. Just god(s).

Thousands of years of debate, contemplation, discussion, and writings regarding god.

I'm pretty sure Husker_x just made up or found the words Skoopwind Farzlenogger.

As imprecise as language is - god is sufficiently defined for a person to understand the word in their own context. Even if the existence of god is rejected.

I can drag out the tree analogy if you wish.

I gather you're not a huge fan of religion?

Sort of. It is hard for me to accept the existence of a God, but I value my religious upbringing for the cultural and traditional sense of it and how it has defined me and my family, but that's as far as it goes. I think religion has worn out its usefulness and that my generation is probably going to be the last religious generation.

Perhaps in the West.

It will be interesting to watch as your generation has children. Not a prediciton. I'm just curious.

Giving up one's history, culture and tradition for pure logic. I wonder how many will find it to be a good trade?

Fortunately, those things are not just rooted in religion for me. There is plenty of history, culture, and tradition that I hold onto that has nothing to do with religion. What I find funny is how many "religious" traditions also have nothing to do with religion.

You're absolutely right, and tradition is among the worst reasons to continue anything. Read Shirley Jackon's "The Lottery". Wind the clocks back a thousand years and the 'religious traditions' of the day involved heretic hunts, living in complete servility to either the church itself or kings who ruled by divine right. Someone like me would have probably been killed simply for not thinking like the establishment. Plenty of traditions I don't miss one iota. Religion isn't the sum of culture, and demonstrably not even necessary to it or a healthy society.

And trashing things just because it is tradition is no better.

So some traditons were horrible - all tradition must be purged?

Demonstrably healty? Where & when?

Either/or fallacy. Of course all traditions don't have to be purged. It means you have to actually think about what the traditions individually mean and contribute, how they contribute it, and whether or not the tradition is necessary for the contribution at all.

Sweden is commonly cited as a country with around an 80% unbelief rate. Their society is relatively stable, peaceful, and self-reports on happiness are among the highest in the world.

But then a person can be a believer and not subscribe to any traditions, either, so this entire thing amounts to a huge non sequitur.

Allow me to walk that back (the bolded sentence). I was reading up on Dawkins and drifted in to Militant Atheism. My apologies.

You generally don't make sweeping statements.

Sweden, really? Do you have a better example?

 

[Manhattan]

What is wrong with Sweden?

 

[knapplc]

What is wrong with Sweden?

You mean aside from the fact that they seem to have discontinued their bikini team? That alone makes them persona non grata to me. :ahhhhhhhh

 

[Husker_x]

Allow me to walk that back (the bolded sentence). I was reading up on Dawkins and drifted in to Militant Atheism. My apologies.

You generally don't make sweeping statements.

Sweden, really? Do you have a better example?

I don't need a better example if I have a sufficient one. At this point I'd have to throw it back to you to clarify what the benefits of belief in god and/or religious tradition are that we could only get from religion?

 

[AR Husker Fan]

Perhaps in the West.
It will be interesting to watch as your generation has children. Not a prediciton. I'm just curious.

Giving up one's history, culture and tradition for pure logic. I wonder how many will find it to be a good trade?

Worked for the Vulcans.

I'm just sayin'...

 

[Ponderosa]

Perhaps in the West.
It will be interesting to watch as your generation has children. Not a prediciton. I'm just curious.

Giving up one's history, culture and tradition for pure logic. I wonder how many will find it to be a good trade?

Worked for the Vulcans.

I'm just sayin'...

I stared at that gif for 15 minutes - I must be high.

 

[Ponderosa]

What is wrong with Sweden?

Sweden is lovely - nice people, nice country - but small, I wouldn't want make changes to the US based on their example.

They haven't be an unbeliever state long enough to come to any conclusions one way or another.

 

But at this point, I take my leave.

I've noticed the moderators' subtle hints and now conclude my participation in this thread.

 

Husker_x, Manhattan you may have the last word(s).

 

GBR!!!

 

[knapplc]

I've noticed the moderators' subtle hints and now conclude my participation in this thread.

¿Que pasa, esse?

 

[zoogs]

I've noticed the moderators' subtle hints and now conclude my participation in this thread.

¿Que pasa, esse?

Pretty sure AR was trying to be funny. He does that sometimes :lol: We all know he's a soulless, humorless lawyer though