B1G and Conference expansion?

308_Husker said:
Notre Dame makes the most sense geographically and market wise. Is a Kansas/Kansas State package realistic?
Click to expand...


Kansas State is in the same position as Okie State. There is a 0% percent chance that they will get an invite in their present academic state.

Also, If the Big XII is strengthening their conference with additions then why would Kansas leave? Especially when they could own this conference in bball with no problems.

If the Big XII is adding then the Big Ten's additions will not come from there. The only other options are in the Big East and the ACC(assuming they have defectors).

 
WoodyHayes1951 said:
308_Husker said:
Notre Dame makes the most sense geographically and market wise. Is a Kansas/Kansas State package realistic?
Click to expand...


Kansas State is in the same position as Okie State. There is a 0% percent chance that they will get an invite in their present academic state.

Also, If the Big XII is strengthening their conference with additions then why would Kansas leave? Especially when they could own this conference in bball with no problems.

If the Big XII is adding then the Big Ten's additions will not come from there. The only other options are in the Big East and the ACC(assuming they have defectors).
Click to expand...
I'm a little behind on this whole realignment talk. Has Delaney come out in favor of adding teams, or is he pretty content with staying with the 12 teams in the conference?

 
308_Husker said:
WoodyHayes1951 said:
308_Husker said:
Notre Dame makes the most sense geographically and market wise. Is a Kansas/Kansas State package realistic?
Click to expand...


Kansas State is in the same position as Okie State. There is a 0% percent chance that they will get an invite in their present academic state.

Also, If the Big XII is strengthening their conference with additions then why would Kansas leave? Especially when they could own this conference in bball with no problems.

If the Big XII is adding then the Big Ten's additions will not come from there. The only other options are in the Big East and the ACC(assuming they have defectors).
Click to expand...
I'm a little behind on this whole realignment talk. Has Delaney come out in favor of adding teams, or is he pretty content with staying with the 12 teams in the conference?
Click to expand...
We are staying at 12 for the foreseeable future, at least publicly.

 
Oh I wish I could be a fly on the wall in some of these talks. It would be really interesting to see what all possibilities have been thrown around as to who wants to do what and why. I never really get too excited until moves are actually made as there has been too much throwing stuff against the wall and a lot of it is not sticking. I will say it is interesting to follow and discuss the possibilities.

When are we supposed to find out more about the BCS changes? I have a feeling once that is finalized it may have an impact on the realignment issue for some schools.

 
gratefullred said:
When the Big12 was set to explode rumor was Kansas was unattached to KSU, no T.Boone to save KSU. Kansas was rumored to be in talks with the PAC12, BigEast, and ACC. Those were the rumors any way.
Click to expand...
Gratefull Red is correct. Kansas is not tethered to Kansas State, and the school president himself stated this when Kansas was talking with the Big East. This was about the time the Big XII was starting to fall apart (post-Harvey smackdown of Dodds and Beebe, IIRC) and Missouri was a supposed lock for the B1G.

---

Oklahoma State is tethered to Oklahoma via their state legislature, which (like Oklahoma State itself) is bought and paid for by T. Boones Farms Pickens. Part of the problem with the Pac-16 deal was that the Pac-10 did not want Texas Tech and Oklahoma State, but it was presented as an all-or-none package deal initially. When Texas weaseled out, the Pac-10 looked at OU by itself as an option, but it wasn't there--package deal or bust. This was right before the OU AD made the comment that they were 'hitching their Schooner to Bevo' or some such nonsense.

---

Delaney said that they're not actively pursuing expansion, but with all of the change going on and the SEC going to 14 schools, one would be a fool to think that Delaney doesn't already have a plan of action with a list of potential expansion targets at the ready.

As for B1G Expansion targets, numero uno is Notre Dame, but the more I think about it, the more I believe they'll go to the Big East (where their Olympic sports already reside--least amount of impact).

Second has to be Kansas. Think about this--they have a decent media market (KC) to draw from. Delaney is a basketball guy that is wanting the B1G to become the prominent basketball conference in the nation. Kansas is one of the top two programs in the nation this past decade in Men's Basketball. Kansas Basketball has a nationwide audience (not unlike Nebraska football) that goes well beyond it's modest in-state footprint. They're AAU members that aren't at risk of being booted out (last I checked...) with academic rankings on par with Missouri and Nebraska. Kansas participates in most of the same Olympic sports the other B1G schools do.

Granted, Kansas on its own doesn't make *that* much of a splash--but these things don't occur in a vacuum, and a Kansas expansion would need to be paired with a school from a major market. Kansas, as it were, would be the Peanut Butter to another school's chocolate. Kansas and Notre Dame would be a stellar move. Kansas on its own...not so much.

As for the third school...this is where things get tricky. The schools that were shoe-ins for B1G expansion based on media market have all been gobbled up and are moving elsewhere--Syracuse, Pitt, Missouri--or they're just not that desirable when you look at the details--Rutgers, Boston College, West Virginia.

This is where I think Delaney throws us a curve ball and goes outside the contiguous footprint. If Florida State doesn't go to the Big XII (big *IF*--I personally think they're gone already), then a school like Florida State (current topic 'o discussion) or Georgia Tech (rumored to be a target before when the B1G was looking at 14) becomes your #3 and #4 choices. It opens up the south for recruiting, it gets an ACC school better/more money and exposure, and both schools would be good all-around additions to the sports portfolio.

Beyond this, I would say Maryland (D.C., Virginia media markets) or Rutgers (again, markets, though they're not all they're cracked up to be) come into play.

Just my $.02

 
matthew_m_g said:
Delaney said that they're not actively pursuing expansion, but with all of the change going on and the SEC going to 14 schools, one would be a fool to think that Delaney doesn't already have a plan of action with a list of potential expansion targets at the ready.

As for B1G Expansion targets, numero uno is Notre Dame, but the more I think about it, the more I believe they'll go to the Big East (where their Olympic sports already reside--least amount of impact).

Second has to be Kansas. Think about this--they have a decent media market (KC) to draw from. Delaney is a basketball guy that is wanting the B1G to become the prominent basketball conference in the nation. Kansas is one of the top two programs in the nation this past decade in Men's Basketball. Kansas Basketball has a nationwide audience (not unlike Nebraska football) that goes well beyond it's modest in-state footprint. They're AAU members that aren't at risk of being booted out (last I checked...) with academic rankings on par with Missouri and Nebraska. Kansas participates in most of the same Olympic sports the other B1G schools do.

Granted, Kansas on its own doesn't make *that* much of a splash--but these things don't occur in a vacuum, and a Kansas expansion would need to be paired with a school from a major market. Kansas, as it were, would be the Peanut Butter to another school's chocolate. Kansas and Notre Dame would be a stellar move. Kansas on its own...not so much.

As for the third school...this is where things get tricky. The schools that were shoe-ins for B1G expansion based on media market have all been gobbled up and are moving elsewhere--Syracuse, Pitt, Missouri--or they're just not that desirable when you look at the details--Rutgers, Boston College, West Virginia.

This is where I think Delaney throws us a curve ball and goes outside the contiguous footprint. If Florida State doesn't go to the Big XII (big *IF*--I personally think they're gone already), then a school like Florida State (current topic 'o discussion) or Georgia Tech (rumored to be a target before when the B1G was looking at 14) becomes your #3 and #4 choices. It opens up the south for recruiting, it gets an ACC school better/more money and exposure, and both schools would be good all-around additions to the sports portfolio.

Beyond this, I would say Maryland (D.C., Virginia media markets) or Rutgers (again, markets, though they're not all they're cracked up to be) come into play.

Just my $.02
Click to expand...
Interesting take on things. Notre Dame is a tough one to figure out. Their tv deal is up in 2015, the B1G has been after them for 20 years, and every conference seems to be in play for them. Thing about Notre Dame is that the booster money is outrageous. Another $10 million from a tv deal means little to them. I don't see them joining any conference, but if the have to I could see the BigEast giving them a sweet-heart deal or the B1G is the other possibility. I can't see ND in the ACC or Big12.

That pretty much ends the conversation if the B1G is staying within a contingious footprint.

I agree with your take on Kansas, but I'm not as high on them as you. Football is driving this bus. I see them ahead of Maryland and behind Virginia Tech although it is believed VaTech is tied to Virginia. Georgia Tech in my opinion is out of the footprint even if Maryland or VaTech comes along. Oklahoma's academics take them off the table. I see VaTech as the strongest brand available in the contingeous footprint, and I don't think that is enough to bring along a second school.

 
ND could be interesting in a couple years when they're deal is up. Yes, they're still Notre Dame but they really haven't been nationally relevant in football for awhile and their basketball program is slipping as well. I'm sure they'll still get a rosy TV deal offered to them but it could be interesting if it's not as big as they'd like it to be.

 
gratefullred said:
Interesting take on things. Notre Dame is a tough one to figure out. Their tv deal is up in 2015, the B1G has been after them for 20 years, and every conference seems to be in play for them. Thing about Notre Dame is that the booster money is outrageous. Another $10 million from a tv deal means little to them. I don't see them joining any conference, but if the have to I could see the BigEast giving them a sweet-heart deal or the B1G is the other possibility. I can't see ND in the ACC or Big12.

That pretty much ends the conversation if the B1G is staying within a contingious footprint.
Click to expand...
That's the thing--it would be hard for Delaney to stay within the contiguous footprint unless they can get Notre Dame, and I don't think they'll join the B1G. But the way things are looking with the BCS Playoff talks is that one must win their conference to be considered--Notre Dame (and BYU) are left out in the cold in that scenario.

But, you know, if Florida State is looking around, and the B1G is looking for more 'southern exposure', it could do a lot worse than the house that Bobby Bowden built. If anything, you know damn well it would make for a more interesting cross-rival than Penn State, history and all...

Hell, imagine the B1G picking up Kansas and Florida State--in lieu of a possible Notre Dame acquisition, I would dare say this would be the next best thing for the B1G. Much better than the Mizzery/aTm acquisition the SEC made, at any rate.

gratefullred said:
I agree with your take on Kansas, but I'm not as high on them as you. Football is driving this bus. I see them ahead of Maryland and behind Virginia Tech although it is believed VaTech is tied to Virginia. Georgia Tech in my opinion is out of the footprint even if Maryland or VaTech comes along. Oklahoma's academics take them off the table. I see VaTech as the strongest brand available in the contingeous footprint, and I don't think that is enough to bring along a second school.
Click to expand...
Ah, that's what it looks like on the surface. But, it's not about the sports--it's TV money...sickeningly huge piles of Benjamins...enough for Scrooge McDuck to take a swim in (nevermind the paper cuts)...that is driving this bus. Football just happens to be the most lucrative sport in driving that gravy train with biscuit wheels. But what happens when the football schools are picked over (as is the case now, save for a scant few)? You go to the next most lucrative, money-making sport, and that's Men's Basketball.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I hope we stay at 12 schools and remain a Midwestern conference with Penn State being the only exception (i.e. no Southern schools).

 
Bucky said:
gratefullred said:
I think FSU is gone to the Big12 along with Clemson or Lousiville.

The B1G seems to want to keep a continious geographic footprint. Should this be of any importance at all? Should the B1G have interest in FSU and Clemson?

I don't think the B1G should, but just got me thinking.
Click to expand...
Its important if you want to create a cohesive conference for the long haul and want to protect yourself from raiding. It helps to build camaraderie, develop rivalries and just creates a better experience for fans because its easier to travel and you're more likely to interact with fans of your conference peers.

I think its wise for us to maintain the geographic continuity of the Big Ten, that along with our history and the CIC helps to make us one of the most stable conferences in the country despite what some Penn State fans might rave about in their deep dark corners of the internet.

There's nothing wrong with looking at possibilities, we'd be stupid not to but I agree that its probably not worth it to pursue FSU or Clemson. We need to keep up on these things because even if the Big Ten isn't directly involved in them, these moves have the potential to affect us. For example I think Texas A&M to the SEC will ultimately hurt us because now Texas kids are going to be interested in many more schools. That market is about to get much more competitive and some Big Ten teams are really going to feel the squeeze, like Nebraska which has twice as many Texas kids as any other single Big Ten School.

The impact of FSU, CU or U of L moving to the Big Twelve is a little bit harder to predict. If you read some other boards, especially West Virginia sites, you see people hyping up what they think will be a rejuvenated conference. Some guys even claim it will be better than the SEC....I just don't know.
Click to expand...

+1

in the end, I think a geographic conference will be the strenght or the downfall of any conference. college football is very much a regional deal....after the newness wears off, fans quit travelling across the country to see FL S/KU, and stadiums start to turn up empty, fans are going to lose interest and its going downhill for that geographically spread conference. no interest=no $

the big 12 will ultimately not make it...hell, the rate they are going, they'll be adding hawaii and washington so they have all corners of the US covered! their teams will just take classes and live on airplanes..

 
The B1G doesn't need to add anything they have a CCG. That's why you want 12 teams... Until the new format of the playoff warrants a superconference there is no need.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top