B1G and Conference expansion?

[Notre Dame Joe]

Someone just told me that they just heard that Florida State, Miami, Virginia Tech and one other school (I can't remember which one they told me) just agreed to join the Big 12. Can anyone verify that or are they telling stories?

I just saw it on CFB Live now. They also said that ND's 2012 schedule is so hard that "The 95 Huskers would have trouble getting through it." chuckleshuffle

This whole ND thing just doesn't make sense to me. They want to stay Independent I get that, but they say if they join a conference they loose their ability to recruit nationally and become a more regional commodity (which by the way has not worked the best lately). That is where they lose me. I feel that NU having been in a conference a long time recruits nationally pretty well and since we have now switched Conferences it is a benefit to have certain ties to specific places. We had ties in the Big 12 footprint and now we are making in roads in the B1G footprint. But we always will attempt to recruit CA, TX and FL. Basically I just don't understand all the arguments against joining a Conf. If you can make more money as an IND and you can find a place for your non-revenue sports to play then knock yourself out.

We can't afford to take the chance and be regionalized. Apparently we don't even dominate Northwest Indiana, Southern Cal just got a commitment from the top RB. The midwest is just losing people.

I really think the jury is still out on your life in the B1g. The solidarity and the money are good. But recruiting wise, going against Urban Meyer and the Michigan machine is not going to easy. And can you still pull in Texans? Also you have the entire state of Nebraska to yourself (we share Indiana with 2 schools that are technically in the BCS) NU can at least get linemen locally and go abroad vs everyone for speed.

 

[Jaybird]

Someone just told me that they just heard that Florida State, Miami, Virginia Tech and one other school (I can't remember which one they told me) just agreed to join the Big 12. Can anyone verify that or are they telling stories?

I just saw it on CFB Live now. They also said that ND's 2012 schedule is so hard that "The 95 Huskers would have trouble getting through it." chuckleshuffle

This whole ND thing just doesn't make sense to me. They want to stay Independent I get that, but they say if they join a conference they loose their ability to recruit nationally and become a more regional commodity (which by the way has not worked the best lately). That is where they lose me. I feel that NU having been in a conference a long time recruits nationally pretty well and since we have now switched Conferences it is a benefit to have certain ties to specific places. We had ties in the Big 12 footprint and now we are making in roads in the B1G footprint. But we always will attempt to recruit CA, TX and FL. Basically I just don't understand all the arguments against joining a Conf. If you can make more money as an IND and you can find a place for your non-revenue sports to play then knock yourself out.

We can't afford to take the chance and be regionalized. Apparently we don't even dominate Northwest Indiana, Southern Cal just got a commitment from the top RB. The midwest is just losing people.

I really think the jury is still out on your life in the B1g. The solidarity and the money are good. But recruiting wise, going against Urban Meyer and the Michigan machine is not going to easy. And can you still pull in Texans? Also you have the entire state of Nebraska to yourself (we share Indiana with 2 schools that are technically in the BCS) NU can at least get linemen locally and go abroad vs everyone for speed.

See this is what I don't get. Football is totally different from even back when Nebraska was truly competing for national Championships, this holds true for ND. The National thing hasn't been working and risking it by going more regional may be a benefit to you because you may have a better chance at keeping the guys from IN, IL, MI, OH etc. Yes the jury is still out on what effect this will have on Nebraska's recruiting but I still feel we will be in the running with guys from CA, FL and TX. Maybe not to the extent it had been when we were in the Big 12 and played there a time or 2 a year but we should still be able to grab a guy here and there as need dictates. We are certainly recruiting IL, IN, OH a lot better than before and this extends into PA, NJ, MD etc. This whole conference realignment thing kind of throws a wrench into historical recruiting ties. I have zero problem with ND staying ind if that is best for them but I am just not understanding the regionalization argument as no matter waht ND will always be a national brand.

 

[gratefullred]

Conference expansion talk always leads back to Notre Dame. ND is just different than everybody else, why money. More importantly where there money comes from. The booster money flowing into ND is crazy. These boosters are in love with ND as an independant. An extra $10million in a TV deal is not worth joining a conference if ND looses $10million in booster money. No other school can say the same. Even if ND is exculded from winning a NC because of a stipulation saying you need to win your conference. I think these boosters would rather play their rivals, go undefeated, and not win a NC as opposed to joining a conference. Basically ND is going nowhere.

The only reason we hear all this ND to the Big12 nonsense is because Texas AD Dodds just gets giddy talking ND. The BigEast will always exist in some fashion even if they have no members playing football and ND will always have a place for their non-football sports with the BigEast. ND to the Big12 makes no sense, but everybody keeps writing about it every time Dodds open his mouth gushing about ND.

ND to the B1G makes sense, that is why people have been talking about it for 15 years. They could play USC, Stanford, and Navy along with a conference schedule including Michigan, Michigan St, Purdue, and 5 other B1G opponents each year having 8 home games every other year. In the Big12 they would be playing 9 conference games, none against ND traditional rivals. ND wants to be independant and thats what they will be.

What did I miss Joe?

 

[Notre Dame Joe]

Conference expansion talk always leads back to Notre Dame. ND is just different than everybody else, why money. More importantly where there money comes from. The booster money flowing into ND is crazy. These boosters are in love with ND as an independant. An extra $10million in a TV deal is not worth joining a conference if ND looses $10million in booster money. No other school can say the same. Even if ND is exculded from winning a NC because of a stipulation saying you need to win your conference. I think these boosters would rather play their rivals, go undefeated, and not win a NC as opposed to joining a conference. Basically ND is going nowhere.

The only reason we hear all this ND to the Big12 nonsense is because Texas AD Dodds just gets giddy talking ND. The BigEast will always exist in some fashion even if they have no members playing football and ND will always have a place for their non-football sports with the BigEast. ND to the Big12 makes no sense, but everybody keeps writing about it every time Dodds open his mouth gushing about ND.

ND to the B1G makes sense, that is why people have been talking about it for 15 years. They could play USC, Stanford, and Navy along with a conference schedule including Michigan, Michigan St, Purdue, and 5 other B1G opponents each year having 8 home games every other year. In the Big12 they would be playing 9 conference games, none against ND traditional rivals. ND wants to be independant and thats what they will be.

What did I miss Joe?

Very little IMO. In the B1G we'd have to give up Navy/SoCal, since now there are regular Bug--Pac games expected. 1 open spot is too little and we'd wind up with the usual toughest schedule.

You are right, it was an alumni riot that stopped our admin in 1998.

I want to repeat that I don't think the problem is this or that conference, it's ALL conferences and that conference thinking is creating the chaos. But at least it fills up the empty off-season.

 

[Excel]

Let's just all go independent, that'd be interesting.

 

[Jaybird]

I definitely think there needs to be some universalization of the process. Either all teams need to have a championship game or we should all do away with them. It seems like the process of deciding who is a conference champion varies greatly and It sounds like the conference championship issue may end up deciding who gets into the playoff.

Granted ND's schedule this upcoming year looks pretty tough on paper but some years in the recent past their schedule has been a lot easier. The issue of ND ends up being a touchy one. If they get the official despensation from the BCS to be in the playoff if they are in the top 4 or whatever then why would they want to schedule tougher games when they can fill the schedule with easier games, get a higher ranking and backdoor their way into the playoff. The teams in conferences have to play certain teams every year so this is not as likely for a team in a conf. Granted a conf may have a down year and a team may end up with an easy schedule by missing the other top teams in the conference but it was not by design.

This is the same argument I have against Boise making the major games they end up making. If you only play one big game each year it is easier to stay healthy and run the table against lesser oppontents. In a conference you have to go against physical teams week in and week out as even the worst teams in the Big 12 and B1G are better than the teams in the WAC they played on a weekly basis.

When push comes to shove conferences are good in some instances but in the case of college football it may be better not to have them at all. Maybe college football should cleave itself off from the NCAA and make an association where the top 60 or so teams meet to play each other to decide the national championship. The teams represented in this group of 60 teams are the best college football teams in the country. If you are at the bottom of the group regularly maybe you can be dropped for a team that is just outside of the top 60. This way there is a level of consistency as all teams are playing top level talent each week.

Can you imagine a college football season where your schedule is against a top 60 team every week all season long. No money games and there would be less of a worry about scheduling as you would all have the same pool from which to set your games for the year.

 

[SandhillshuskerW]

Someone just told me that they just heard that Florida State, Miami, Virginia Tech and one other school (I can't remember which one they told me) just agreed to join the Big 12. Can anyone verify that or are they telling stories?

I just saw it on CFB Live now. They also said that ND's 2012 schedule is so hard that "The 95 Huskers would have trouble getting through it." chuckleshuffle

This whole ND thing just doesn't make sense to me. They want to stay Independent I get that, but they say if they join a conference they loose their ability to recruit nationally and become a more regional commodity (which by the way has not worked the best lately). That is where they lose me. I feel that NU having been in a conference a long time recruits nationally pretty well and since we have now switched Conferences it is a benefit to have certain ties to specific places. We had ties in the Big 12 footprint and now we are making in roads in the B1G footprint. But we always will attempt to recruit CA, TX and FL. Basically I just don't understand all the arguments against joining a Conf. If you can make more money as an IND and you can find a place for your non-revenue sports to play then knock yourself out.

We can't afford to take the chance and be regionalized. Apparently we don't even dominate Northwest Indiana, Southern Cal just got a commitment from the top RB. The midwest is just losing people.

I really think the jury is still out on your life in the B1g. The solidarity and the money are good. But recruiting wise, going against Urban Meyer and the Michigan machine is not going to easy. And can you still pull in Texans? Also you have the entire state of Nebraska to yourself (we share Indiana with 2 schools that are technically in the BCS) NU can at least get linemen locally and go abroad vs everyone for speed.

Can anyone verify who the fourth team is besides Florida State, Miami, and Virginia Tech?

 

[Creed]

Don't you think there's a drawback to having the toughest football conference that the SEC (if add Va Tech) and B12 (if add FSU, Clemson, ND) are trying to build? I mean what are the chances Va Tech, UGA, UT, A&M, Mizz, Ark, Aub have an undeafeated or 1 loss season and make the playoff or BCS (top payout) bowl game? Same for many teams in the B12? You're competing with 5-8 top teams for 2 spots whereas in the B1G you usually have 2-3 top teams competing for 2 spots (Rose Bowl & BCS). The path will be easier for the blue chip football programs (OSU, UM, Neb, PSU - some years MSU,Wisc) to make it to the CCG and into the playoffs.

Could the B1G add BBall schools (Kansas, UNC, Duke, Maryland) that draw in great money but don't block the path for the traditional football schools? Also CBB is down now and CFB is up but who is to say 20 years from now the situation is reversed.

 

[Husker John]

Someone just told me that they just heard that Florida State, Miami, Virginia Tech and one other school (I can't remember which one they told me) just agreed to join the Big 12. Can anyone verify that or are they telling stories?

I just saw it on CFB Live now. They also said that ND's 2012 schedule is so hard that "The 95 Huskers would have trouble getting through it." chuckleshuffle

This whole ND thing just doesn't make sense to me. They want to stay Independent I get that, but they say if they join a conference they loose their ability to recruit nationally and become a more regional commodity (which by the way has not worked the best lately). That is where they lose me. I feel that NU having been in a conference a long time recruits nationally pretty well and since we have now switched Conferences it is a benefit to have certain ties to specific places. We had ties in the Big 12 footprint and now we are making in roads in the B1G footprint. But we always will attempt to recruit CA, TX and FL. Basically I just don't understand all the arguments against joining a Conf. If you can make more money as an IND and you can find a place for your non-revenue sports to play then knock yourself out.

We can't afford to take the chance and be regionalized. Apparently we don't even dominate Northwest Indiana, Southern Cal just got a commitment from the top RB. The midwest is just losing people.

I really think the jury is still out on your life in the B1g. The solidarity and the money are good. But recruiting wise, going against Urban Meyer and the Michigan machine is not going to easy. And can you still pull in Texans? Also you have the entire state of Nebraska to yourself (we share Indiana with 2 schools that are technically in the BCS) NU can at least get linemen locally and go abroad vs everyone for speed.

Can anyone verify who the fourth team is besides Florida State, Miami, and Virginia Tech?

I believe Clemson was the fourth team, but now Georgia Tech's name has been added to the rumor mill (according to the internet sports B.S. factory Bleacher Report http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1193313-big-12-football-multiple-teams-reportedly-showing-interest-is-bad-sign-for-acc) :ahhhhhhhh

 

[SandhillshuskerW]

Don't you think there's a drawback to having the toughest football conference that the SEC (if add Va Tech) and B12 (if add FSU, Clemson, ND) are trying to build? I mean what are the chances Va Tech, UGA, UT, A&M, Mizz, Ark, Aub have an undeafeated or 1 loss season and make the playoff or BCS (top payout) bowl game? Same for many teams in the B12? You're competing with 5-8 top teams for 2 spots whereas in the B1G you usually have 2-3 top teams competing for 2 spots (Rose Bowl & BCS). The path will be easier for the blue chip football programs (OSU, UM, Neb, PSU - some years MSU,Wisc) to make it to the CCG and into the playoffs.

Could the B1G add BBall schools (Kansas, UNC, Duke, Maryland) that draw in great money but don't block the path for the traditional football schools? Also CBB is down now and CFB is up but who is to say 20 years from now the situation is reversed.

That's a great point. These POWER conferences are going to be so tough to go undefeated in that it will be really hard for teams to make it to the championship game. It will be fun to watch throughout the year though!

 

[NUance]

From @Huskerinsanity: Do you think the Big Ten should be proactive with all this realignment talk? What other teams fit the Big Ten mold?

Answer: The problem with this is it'd feel like the Big Ten would be getting bigger just for bigger sake, and that's it. What else would these other programs actually bring to the conference? The schools people always just throw out as candidates, namely Rutgers and UCONN, don't really bring much. If anything, they'd water down the product in football a little more since both, realistically, would fit into the bottom half of the league. Neither has truly a significant foothold of the NYC area TV market. I suspect there's more die-hard Michigan, Ohio State or Penn State football fans in NYC than Rutgers and UCONN football.

Maryland has the academics and would offer up reach into a different, sizeable TV market but the Terps football program is horrible right now, and it's not like this program is a slam dunk from a financial model. Keeping in mind, if you add more schools, you also have to divide up the money more and you're likely to increase travel budgets for all of your sports significantly.

Notre Dame, no doubt, is intriguing but ND has flirted with the Big Ten several times before and blown off the conference, so I don't Jim Delany is in the courting mind any more.

LINK

This is from Bruce Feldman's mailbag. Pretty good call on the situation.

 

[VectorVictor]

From @Huskerinsanity: Do you think the Big Ten should be proactive with all this realignment talk? What other teams fit the Big Ten mold?

Answer: The problem with this is it'd feel like the Big Ten would be getting bigger just for bigger sake, and that's it. What else would these other programs actually bring to the conference? The schools people always just throw out as candidates, namely Rutgers and UCONN, don't really bring much. If anything, they'd water down the product in football a little more since both, realistically, would fit into the bottom half of the league. Neither has truly a significant foothold of the NYC area TV market. I suspect there's more die-hard Michigan, Ohio State or Penn State football fans in NYC than Rutgers and UCONN football.

Maryland has the academics and would offer up reach into a different, sizeable TV market but the Terps football program is horrible right now, and it's not like this program is a slam dunk from a financial model. Keeping in mind, if you add more schools, you also have to divide up the money more and you're likely to increase travel budgets for all of your sports significantly.

Notre Dame, no doubt, is intriguing but ND has flirted with the Big Ten several times before and blown off the conference, so I don't Jim Delany is in the courting mind any more.

LINK

This is from Bruce Feldman's mailbag. Pretty good call on the situation.

I disagree. Feldman is only assuming the old names thrown out in 2009-10 are the ones the B1G are still after (or can get?). The B1G, among others, have moved on from Rutgers, Pitt, UCONN, and the like--remember what Delaney said about the B1G needing southern exposure back when B1G expansion was underway? And outside of an SEC team jumping to the B1G (won't happen), the best you can do for B1G exposure in the south is to nab an ACC team.

Remember that FSU is having to compete with Florida and all of the SEC for recruits and facilities (read: money)--the *only* conference in a position to help FSU stop both the fiscal and media 'bleeding', if you will, is the B1G. The Big XII won't have a TV network, and while FSU could start one up on their own, those costs are very high, even for second-rate channels like what OU and KSU currently employ. And while the Big XII money is better than the ACC money, it's not as good as B1G money, which is second only to SEC money.

Also, there are reports that the SEC has seen how successful the B1G is with their network and is looking to emulate it. Long-term, FSU would be easily outclassed by an SEC Network--too much money and power to contend with behind such a creature. And good luck with getting Texas on board an all Big XII network--it won't happen while they have their Bevo TV deal with ESPN.

An FSU grab by the B1G would be just as big a grab as Nebraska was--while FSU isn't as big of a national name as Nebraska, it does open up Florida media markets and fertile recruiting grounds. Ultimately, this would help the B1G as much as it would hurt the SEC in that regard as well.

The only thing Feldman may have gotten right is Notre Dame--if Delaney is as wise as people claim he is, one would think he's moved on and won't plan on ND being part of any sort of B1G realignment scenario.

 

[VectorVictor]

I believe Clemson was the fourth team, but now Georgia Tech's name has been added to the rumor mill (according to the internet sports B.S. factory Bleacher Report http://bleacherrepor...ad-sign-for-acc) :ahhhhhhhh

Considering the Bleacher Report claims Chip Brown as the source, I would have to think the article is complete B.S.

In fact, the only thing I would trust Chip Brown to report on is what Bevo had for dinner. B.S. reporting indeed.

 

[Mavric]

Maybe slightly off topic but I'll post it here anyway. Interesting article about the Big XII considering expanding to 12 teams. Pretty enlightening reasoning:

Big 12 favors 4-team playoff

Several football coaches, including Kansas State's Bill Snyder, have hinted that they would like to see two more teams added and the return of a conference title game.

Pollard said that may not necessarily be in the league's best interest.

While a title game potentially means more revenue, it also means a team headed for a proposed four-team playoff could lose its spot if it lost to an opponent with a middling record.

Maybe it's just me but it seems like I've heard that argument somewhere before....