Braylon Heard did not make it

[TheCheshireCat]

I noticed no one has mentioned the fact that standardized tests measure "left brain" only. There is no room for creativity or the intelligence and abilities of writers, artists, musicians, etc. The problem is that tests measure one kind of intelligence, mostly rote memory and math/logic. But who is to say a mathematician is any smarter or more intelligent than a gifted painter or poet? Society has placed importance and superiority on left brain abilities over right brain abilities, but there are many types of intelligence.

 

[funhusker]

I noticed no one has mentioned the fact that standardized tests measure "left brain" only. There is no room for creativity or the intelligence and abilities of writers, artists, musicians, etc. The problem is that tests measure one kind of intelligence, mostly rote memory and math/logic. But who is to say a mathematician is any smarter or more intelligent than a gifted painter or poet? Society has placed importance and superiority on left brain abilities over right brain abilities, but there are many types of intelligence.

This may be true.

I don't believe anyone (I'm probably wrong) is saying getting a degree from a University means your are automatically more intelligent than people without. I'm working on my 2nd degree, my brother has zero. Yet he is better off financially and probably has a better grasp on life. I would willingly say that he is smarter than me.

What I believe is that if you want to go to a University and play sports, you have to meet the standards of the school and the NCAA (or whatever athletic association that school is a part of). Which includes High School GPA and/or ACT, SAT scores.

A great musician/artist doesn't need a college to be successful. Braylon (if his goal is to make football a successful career) needs college to play his sport. He needs to meet the standards set forth.

 

[zoogs]

^ exactly. We aren't talking about worth as a person, or intelligence, or anything here.

It's just a hurdle you have to cross to get to where you want to be, if where you want to be is at a university. Does anybody really need to know when the Battles of Lexington and Concord took place, which they probably invariably memorized at one point or another in school? No - but those classes are just a step along the way to get you to where you want to be.

If Braylon wants to be at UNL, he has to bring his scores up. Otherwise, best wishes to probably a great kid but one who would have to go through a JUCO - which is still a college after all.

 

[okaive]

Call me a bad guy, but I really don't feel bad for Braylon. The ACT is really not that hard. I got a 28 on my first try and I literally (yes, I mean literally) did not study at all for it. If you can't meet the university's academic standards, that's not their fault and he shouldn't be treated any different just because he plays football.

Hardly a fair statement to make, some people are just flat out horrible in standardized testing situations.

Definitely the truth. I am the worst at tests, but hands on job, I strive at. Not making excuses or feeling for him, but people do struggle out there no matter how much training they have.

 

[Hercules]

I noticed no one has mentioned the fact that standardized tests measure "left brain" only. There is no room for creativity or the intelligence and abilities of writers, artists, musicians, etc. The problem is that tests measure one kind of intelligence, mostly rote memory and math/logic. But who is to say a mathematician is any smarter or more intelligent than a gifted painter or poet? Society has placed importance and superiority on left brain abilities over right brain abilities, but there are many types of intelligence.

This may be true.

I don't believe anyone (I'm probably wrong) is saying getting a degree from a University means your are automatically more intelligent than people without. I'm working on my 2nd degree, my brother has zero. Yet he is better off financially and probably has a better grasp on life. I would willingly say that he is smarter than me.

What I believe is that if you want to go to a University and play sports, you have to meet the standards of the school and the NCAA (or whatever athletic association that school is a part of). Which includes High School GPA and/or ACT, SAT scores.

A great musician/artist doesn't need a college to be successful. Braylon (if his goal is to make football a successful career) needs college to play his sport. He needs to meet the standards set forth.

This isn't really true. I would venture a guess that Toni Morrison's college education had a pretty big impact on her future as a writer. But, there are also thousands of tremendous musicians, artists, writers, etc who can't make a living with their craft because the funding isn't there for it or the market isn't there for it. They either have to find jobs to supplement their income (often teaching), or they have to find day jobs that will support their craft.

Anyways, the point (as stated before) is that standardized tests only address a few types of intelligences, because society has placed greater value on those. Saying that a musician/artist, who might have stronger right brain intelligence doesn't need a college degree to succeed ignores the fact that right brain intelligence should also be a valued trait of businessmen.

 

[knapplc]

This isn't really true. I would venture a guess that Toni Morrison's college education had a pretty big impact on her future as a writer. But, there are also thousands of tremendous musicians, artists, writers, etc who can't make a living with their craft because the funding isn't there for it or the market isn't there for it. They either have to find jobs to supplement their income (often teaching), or they have to find day jobs that will support their craft.

Anyways, the point (as stated before) is that standardized tests only address a few types of intelligences, because society has placed greater value on those. Saying that a musician/artist, who might have stronger right brain intelligence doesn't need a college degree to succeed ignores the fact that right brain intelligence should also be a valued trait of businessmen.

No, it really is true. Art is independent of education. You can perfect your craft in a classroom setting, but you don't have to go to school to be a great artist, or a great singer, or a great... whatever.

Not every writer, singer, poet, artist, dancer, musician, etc. has gone to college. At the same time, not every successful businessman has gone to college, either. So there's not much point here, other than to say that some people have innate talents. The right school can perfect and enhance those talents, but not every school will, nor will every person truly benefit from school.

Still, I would encourage everyone to go to school and get a degree - more to conform to society than because I truly believe great knowledge comes from college only. It doesn't. It's just more concentrated there.

 

[Apathy]

For some weird reason I thought this thread was about Braylon Heard....I must of clicked on the wrong thread

 

[jsneb83]

For some weird reason I thought this thread was about Braylon Heard....I must of clicked on the wrong thread

Don't you know? Every Braylon Heard ends like this.

 

[TheCheshireCat]

I noticed no one has mentioned the fact that standardized tests measure "left brain" only. There is no room for creativity or the intelligence and abilities of writers, artists, musicians, etc. The problem is that tests measure one kind of intelligence, mostly rote memory and math/logic. But who is to say a mathematician is any smarter or more intelligent than a gifted painter or poet? Society has placed importance and superiority on left brain abilities over right brain abilities, but there are many types of intelligence.

This may be true.

I don't believe anyone (I'm probably wrong) is saying getting a degree from a University means your are automatically more intelligent than people without. I'm working on my 2nd degree, my brother has zero. Yet he is better off financially and probably has a better grasp on life. I would willingly say that he is smarter than me.

What I believe is that if you want to go to a University and play sports, you have to meet the standards of the school and the NCAA (or whatever athletic association that school is a part of). Which includes High School GPA and/or ACT, SAT scores.

A great musician/artist doesn't need a college to be successful. Braylon (if his goal is to make football a successful career) needs college to play his sport. He needs to meet the standards set forth.

I was speaking generally, not really about Heard. It sucks he still hasn't been able to get in, but hopefully this summer.

 

[STOOBIE]

For some weird reason I thought this thread was about Braylon Heard....I must of clicked on the wrong thread

Don't you know? Every Braylon Heard ends like this.

Grades must be a hot topic on this board. Maybe we should have a "What did you get on the ACT?" thread.

 

[Hercules]

This isn't really true. I would venture a guess that Toni Morrison's college education had a pretty big impact on her future as a writer. But, there are also thousands of tremendous musicians, artists, writers, etc who can't make a living with their craft because the funding isn't there for it or the market isn't there for it. They either have to find jobs to supplement their income (often teaching), or they have to find day jobs that will support their craft.

Anyways, the point (as stated before) is that standardized tests only address a few types of intelligences, because society has placed greater value on those. Saying that a musician/artist, who might have stronger right brain intelligence doesn't need a college degree to succeed ignores the fact that right brain intelligence should also be a valued trait of businessmen.

No, it really is true. Art is independent of education. You can perfect your craft in a classroom setting, but you don't have to go to school to be a great artist, or a great singer, or a great... whatever.

Not every writer, singer, poet, artist, dancer, musician, etc. has gone to college. At the same time, not every successful businessman has gone to college, either. So there's not much point here, other than to say that some people have innate talents. The right school can perfect and enhance those talents, but not every school will, nor will every person truly benefit from school.

Still, I would encourage everyone to go to school and get a degree - more to conform to society than because I truly believe great knowledge comes from college only. It doesn't. It's just more concentrated there.

You can perfect your craft outside of school... in theory. And you're right, not every artist goes to college, and not every successful businessman goes to college. However, you're talking about the exception to the rule. Bill Gates doesn't have to go to college, neither does Jay Z.

But 99% of the artists in this country either go to college to work on their craft because they don't grow up in an environment that allows them to learn that craft naturally, or they go to college so they may get a degree that they can fall back on. In that latter scenario, they're not going to college to perfect their craft, they're going to college so that they can still pursue their craft and manage to put food on the table.

If you limit the debate to those superstars of pop culture, you're going to see an entirely different picture. You'll see kids at the age of 15 who get picked up by Disney to sing on a few albums and make as much money as humanly possible while the getting is good. Or you'll see really young people who make it big early in their career and manage to maintain some of their audience even as they grow older. But all of those people represent less than about .1% of the whole population of artists in this country. Most artists in this country teach to make a living, or they enter another profession like dentistry or something to help them support their craft.

So, yeah, in theory, artists in this country don't need to go to college to be artists. But in reality, 99% of artists in this country do have to go to college for one reason or another.

 

[Hercules]

for those who are interested... has NOTHING to do with football.

 

[The Architect]

for those who are interested... has NOTHING to do with football.

That was BRILLIANT!! I hope you all listen to this message. If you don't understand it, then you have lost your imagination. Just like some of our youth, IMO Braylons artistic talent is football and our system is taking that away from him and others. I loved what he said about ADHD, very true. Thanks for that post!

 

[74Hunter]

Standardized tests suck. They are biased against different cultures and those cultures' respective vernacular language. They also drain all of the creativity from teaching and learning by enforcing a strict set of values and principles that may or may not be relevant to what students actually should be learning. Good test-takers are sometimes nothing more than good guessers, since that's part of taking tests, and standardized tests usually measure shallow levels of comprehension. They don't ask, "Describe in detail the series of events that led to the Civil War." Instead they ask, "When did the Civil War begin? A. 1492 B. 1776 C. 1861 D. 1941."

I have heard this excuse many times but I have never had anyone show concrete evidence as to how this is true. How is 2 + 2 = 4, knowing the difference between there, their, and they're, or knowing when the Civil War started more advantageous to any one ethnic group or culture. While I may agree that it tests a different "type" or level of intelligence, I can't see where it's easier for whites, blacks, Asians, Christians, Jews, etc.

As for your assumption that somehow a question such as "Describe in detail the series of events that led to the Civil War," is a better question than "When did the Civil War begin? A. 1492 B. 1776 C. 1861 D. 1941" is ridiculous at best. I am not particularly imaginative and I was normally very good at standardized tests, but when answering essay questions, I could normally BS my way and write enough garbage that I would get the majority credit on the question, even if I had no idea what I was writing. I had a much better chance of scoring 80% on an essay question than I did guessing on a multiple choice question.

Right is right, wrong is wrong, it doesn't matter who your daddy is.

 

[Hercules]

Standardized tests suck. They are biased against different cultures and those cultures' respective vernacular language. They also drain all of the creativity from teaching and learning by enforcing a strict set of values and principles that may or may not be relevant to what students actually should be learning. Good test-takers are sometimes nothing more than good guessers, since that's part of taking tests, and standardized tests usually measure shallow levels of comprehension. They don't ask, "Describe in detail the series of events that led to the Civil War." Instead they ask, "When did the Civil War begin? A. 1492 B. 1776 C. 1861 D. 1941."

I have heard this excuse many times but I have never had anyone show concrete evidence as to how this is true. How is 2 + 2 = 4, knowing the difference between there, their, and they're, or knowing when the Civil War started more advantageous to any one ethnic group or culture. While I may agree that it tests a different "type" or level of intelligence, I can't see where it's easier for whites, blacks, Asians, Christians, Jews, etc.

As for your assumption that somehow a question such as "Describe in detail the series of events that led to the Civil War," is a better question than "When did the Civil War begin? A. 1492 B. 1776 C. 1861 D. 1941" is ridiculous at best. I am not particularly imaginative and I was normally very good at standardized tests, but when answering essay questions, I could normally BS my way and write enough garbage that I would get the majority credit on the question, even if I had no idea what I was writing. I had a much better chance of scoring 80% on an essay question than I did guessing on a multiple choice question.

Right is right, wrong is wrong, it doesn't matter who your daddy is.

It's not that there aren't right and wrong answers, it's that there are right and wrong questions. If the SAT vocabulary section tested your knowledge of "street language," than most of the people who usually excel at the SAT would fail miserably, because the test is not taking into consideration their vernacular. Another example is on intelligence tests for young children: a test might ask a student to look at several pictures and identify the picture with the "casserole dish," in it. This is biased because it's not testing students' intelligence, it's testing students' knowledge of culture that may or may not be their own.

And well constructed essay questions are always a better assessment of understanding than a multiple choice test. You can't guess when you're writing an essay, and if you got away with it, than you got lucky or you had a pushover for a teacher. Describing a sequence of events and why those events were important and how they interacted with each other in order to form a larger picture that has deep meaning which still resonates today displays a WAY more thorough understanding of the topic than simply recalling a number from memory.