Brion Carnes

The problem is that we didn't even scheme for roll-outs. Taylor got zero practice time rolling out and re-establishing his read because we're a pocket passing team. With practice it's safe to assume he'd be better at the process - not Joe Montana, but not Taylor Martinez, either.

Same goes for the screen pass. Not part of the plan, didn't practice it, and I'd imagine the team would do rather poorly at it if they threw one in. Don't scheme it, don't practice it, don't do well at it. Pretty easy math.

 
After watching the OSU highlights, it's pretty clear that we are capable of running an effective offense with our current coaches and players. That video shows that well. OSU tried bringing pressure, they tried dropping 8 into coverage, they tried to fill the box to stop the run. Nothing worked. We executed the zone read effectively, play action was big out of the shotgun, and Taylor made quick decisions. He stepped up in the pocket when necessary, he made accurate throws, and his scrambling was great.

Does that mean Watson should keep his job? No. We're too inconsistent, and what we did against OSU is not going to happen often. But it does show that the potential is there. Watson could have a great offense here; for some reason, it just isn't really working out so far.

 
knapplc said:
The problem is that we didn't even scheme for roll-outs. Taylor got zero practice time rolling out and re-establishing his read because we're a pocket passing team. With practice it's safe to assume he'd be better at the process - not Joe Montana, but not Taylor Martinez, either.

Same goes for the screen pass. Not part of the plan, didn't practice it, and I'd imagine the team would do rather poorly at it if they threw one in. Don't scheme it, don't practice it, don't do well at it. Pretty easy math.
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LOL, Taylor can't even get the mechanics down of passing out of the pocket, can't figure out how to read the defense properly standing still with progressions, has horrible pocket presence, carries the ball like a loaf of bread, and you think they should be moving him around? Maybe he should focus on things in the pocket before we move him around. And if Barney can't figure out how to pass protect with a simple drop back, you really think he can teach them to roll the pocket?

 
General Blackshirt said:
After watching the OSU highlights, it's pretty clear that we are capable of running an effective offense with our current coaches and players. That video shows that well. OSU tried bringing pressure, they tried dropping 8 into coverage, they tried to fill the box to stop the run. Nothing worked. We executed the zone read effectively, play action was big out of the shotgun, and Taylor made quick decisions. He stepped up in the pocket when necessary, he made accurate throws, and his scrambling was great.

Does that mean Watson should keep his job? No. We're too inconsistent, and what we did against OSU is not going to happen often. But it does show that the potential is there. Watson could have a great offense here; for some reason, it just isn't really working out so far.
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OSU had an awful game plan, really. That and the WR's just played out of their minds that day, that is probably the best a Ted Gilmore unit has ever looked, go back and check some of those grabs they made in that highlight.

One other thing to note, thanks to Caputo's inability to do much of anything besides get pushed backwards down the stretch, we lost our ability to run inside down the stretch, watch how many dives and inside zone plays we ran early in the year, then the end. It makes me want to cry.

I will add something to my criticism of Taylor though, he's only really in his 3rd year of playing QB at any significant level, his trouble reading defenses are not from a lack of intelligence or talent, it's a lack of experience (and dedication). To ask QB's to come in and learn our route concepts is not easy, it's plagued Cody Green's development and definitely Taylor's. I would love to get away from the WCO route bases in our offense completely, it's tough to get the best receivers on the field with and makes our QB's jobs more difficult IMO.

 
jliehr said:
knapplc said:
The problem is that we didn't even scheme for roll-outs. Taylor got zero practice time rolling out and re-establishing his read because we're a pocket passing team. With practice it's safe to assume he'd be better at the process - not Joe Montana, but not Taylor Martinez, either.

Same goes for the screen pass. Not part of the plan, didn't practice it, and I'd imagine the team would do rather poorly at it if they threw one in. Don't scheme it, don't practice it, don't do well at it. Pretty easy math.
Click to expand...
LOL, Taylor can't even get the mechanics down of passing out of the pocket, can't figure out how to read the defense properly standing still with progressions, has horrible pocket presence, carries the ball like a loaf of bread, and you think they should be moving him around? Maybe he should focus on things in the pocket before we move him around. And if Barney can't figure out how to pass protect with a simple drop back, you really think he can teach them to roll the pocket?
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No, but that's not the point. The point is that Taylor out of the pocket is better than Taylor in the pocket, if for no other reason than his ability to run is enhanced. All you're pointing out are some of the ridiculous, glaring weaknesses from our offense. I'm saying a roll out isn't going to be worse than staying in the pocket, and possibly better.

 
zoogies said:
74Hunter - you are really saying it is Watson's fault that Taylor isn't a rollout passer? Ha! Every player who comes through here, has their strengths and weaknesses. As I said - and many others - at the beginning of the year, Taylor's strengths are very limited. If you wanted to see all these other things you should have joined the Zac camp at the beginning of the year. But you would have given up the big running plays, and few wanted to do that. The lack of being realistic is stunning. Taylor is both a redshirt freshman, and completely raw, and yet he is expected to have all these skills in his arsenal? - keep in mind the reason he is starting: gamebreaking ability. That's it. Not smart pre-snap reads. Not scrambling to find an open man. Not hitting receivers in stride or looking off safeties.

We didn't have a quality backup because Zac got hurt and Cody's chances were limited. We stuck with injured, completely ineffective Taylor over Cody, which is an arguable decision at best IMO, but you can debate that if you wish. Cody is a project of his own, remember. Why are we stocked up with projects at QB? Because Bo requires his recruited QBs to be speedy dual threat guys, which more often than not, means they are just runners that you hope you can mold into QBs. Hence the term project.

Look, there are a whole lot of things you can criticize Watson for. Too complicated passing schemes, playcalling that hasn't been stellar at times, not suited to run this offense. If you are going to stubbornly stick to 'Why isn't Taylor a complete QB yet', it is just wrong, I don't know what else to say. If you are going to criticize just the results and why they turned out this way, you can look at our head coach and ask why he thought this would be a good idea, given the players/coaches we had in place.
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What I am saying is that it doesn't seem that Watson has done much to make T Mart a better player, and he hasn't often called plays that utilize what he does do well. Same with Cody.

 
General Blackshirt said:
After watching the OSU highlights, it's pretty clear that we are capable of running an effective offense with our current coaches and players. That video shows that well. OSU tried bringing pressure, they tried dropping 8 into coverage, they tried to fill the box to stop the run. Nothing worked. We executed the zone read effectively, play action was big out of the shotgun, and Taylor made quick decisions. He stepped up in the pocket when necessary, he made accurate throws, and his scrambling was great.

Does that mean Watson should keep his job? No. We're too inconsistent, and what we did against OSU is not going to happen often. But it does show that the potential is there. Watson could have a great offense here; for some reason, it just isn't really working out so far.
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Will people stop using the Okie Lite game as a measuring stick??? It seems every other Watson/etc./etc. thread has Okie Lite game as an example. Teams like Okie State dont believe in defense, they believe in scoring enough points on offense in hoping the opposing teams offense doesnt keep up. They are one of the most undisciplined defenses in the country the NU game proves its, the 4th Quarter of their OU game proves it.

If we are measuring of what this offense does against medicore defenses we might as well count the SDSU game. Wait.... Ohhh they stuffed us like a thanksgiving turkey. They were the first defense that sold out to stop the zone read and succeeded just nobody noticed yet because it was thought of as an "off" game, because of the bye week coming up.

 
Oklahoma State is #61 in Scoring Defense. That makes them pretty average. They're not horrible.

 
knapplc said:
Oklahoma State is #61 in Scoring Defense. That makes them pretty average. They're not horrible.
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88th in total defense. thats not average, thats horrible.

Saying they're average is pretty generous. Thats like saying Nebraska offense is "ok"(28th I believe) but you and I both know thats not true.

 
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huskerscott said:
knapplc said:
Oklahoma State is #61 in Scoring Defense. That makes them pretty average. They're not horrible.
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88th in total defense. thats not average, thats horrible.

Saying they're average is pretty generous. Thats like saying Nebraska offense is "ok"(28th I believe) but you and I both know thats not true.
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44th after the bowl in total offense, 39th in scoring offense. Above average, not good enough.

113th in passing

112th in tackles for loss

9th in rushing offense

The rest is here

http://web1.ncaa.org/football/exec/rankingSummary?year=2010&org=463

 
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knapplc said:
Watson can better be blamed for Cody than for Marty.
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I know nobody will take stock in this but Cody's progression from a completely awful passer to this year has been pretty substantial by some accounts.

Doesn't appear to be a gamer though, but footwork/mechanics, etc, solid.

I have heard that Watson's QB drills are outstanding. It is more a question of: Watson's passing offense being too complicated, than a failure to develop these project guys. And I can agree with that. Even though I like a power/pro-style offense, I don't think it needs to be that complex.

Watson had a gambit this year, too. Wedding the shotgun spread attack with WCO passing principles and landing a bigtime BCS gig out of that. Safe to say that experiment has not turned out too well. You can point to various things holding him back, but I think that idea, in general, hinders an offense more than helps it.

Also safe to say that he has been the least of our problems this year, but that is more or less why I think it is best for Watson to move on elsewhere. Between spread option and WCO, Bo will only insist on one side of it. So if they are going to be incompatible, Watson has to move on.

There is just not a whole lot of things that Taylor can do well, Hunter.

Last word on roll-outs for now. Taylor's in-pocket mechanics have been shoddy enough. Roll-out requires him to be good on those fundamentals, good with his footwork, good with making quick decisions. If you just turn to the sideline and run, at what point do you look downfield and find your receiver? Set your feet and throw? Taylor has trouble setting his feet correctly from just within the pocket. He has a lot of QB fundamentals to work on in the offseason, and that was always going to be the case. It is likely to continue to be the case in future offseasons, no knock on Taylor; he is just new to all of this.

 
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