Hujan said:
knapplc said:
Hujan said:
You just repeated what I said. At any given moment Martinez is either (1) standing in the pocket surveying the field, or (2) scrambling on a designed run. And yes, I mean that both can take place during the same play. But once he's made the transition from one, he seems incapable of going back to the other.
Carnes, meanwhile, will stand in the pocket and survey, find nothing open, roll out, stand and survey, roll out some more, then find a target and hit it or scramble. He is constantly scanning and trying to make a play.
Point being, I can't remember a time I saw Martinez roll out and then pull up and make a throw instead of continuing to run. The only exception might be those odd shovel pass things we saw in the Holiday Bowl.
Whazzzbuzza? I did not repeat what you said. You said Martinez EITHER stands in the pocket OR takes off on a designed run. Taylor's
very first series in the Spring Game featured a play where he was NOT supposed to run, but did. And ran for a first down. On a play designed to be a pass. Because there were no open receivers.
Again - it was NOT a designed run.
How do you think we're saying the same thing?
Designed run was a poor choice of words. My point is that for Taylor, if the throw is not there, he tucks it and runs, never to think about the throw again. He is either in "run mode" or "throw mode" but never both at the same time. (Same play, yes; same time, no.)
Carnes is the exact opposite. He has the ability to move out of the pocket and position himself as a threat to run, but does so while keeping his head up and ball ready to hit a receiver if one should open up.
It's amazing how much he can do so flawlessly without even taking one single snap in any div1 game. Impressive!!
Seriously, what's your point? Yes or no: Do you think you can tell anything about a kid's likely tendencies before they play in a game? You act like we cannot make any assessments about Carnes' game just because he hasn't played in an actual game yet. I think this is shortsighted and foolish. But I don't need to tell you why because I strongly suspect you don't even believe this is true yourself.
From his high school footage, to the practice footage, to everything we've heard from sportswriters/coaches/players, to the spring game, every single thing I've seen suggests that Carnes is the type of QB who is comfortable rolling out of the pocket, can pass on the run, and is able to by some time as a result of these things. Why do you insist on denying it?
If you want the gloves to come off about Taylor they can come off. Since you're so stuck on what we don't know about Carnes, let's talk about what we DO know about Taylor. How about the fact that the he does not have any of most fundamental things you need in your quarterback:
Comfortable in the pocket? Nope.
Leadership? Nope.
Ability to stretch the field with the long ball? Not really.
Reliably move the chains on third down? Nope.
Durable? Not quite.
And that's really the point that you're missing: My high praise for Carnes has less to do with what he might bring to the table, and has more to do with what Taylor apparently does not.
Jeeez...Hujan, you're sharper than this. Not feeling well? Hey, we all have bad days. No biggie...
Let me use "walksalone" post on this thread....
What it boils down to is that I hope T-Mart succeeds. I'd rather him out there than somebody, who's an unknown quantity in Barnes. Yea, his tapes from High School make him look like jesus on a stick, but that's in high school, not in front of over 100k+ fans at the big house.
Hujan, you're repeatably making these high statements about Carnes ability to perform in bigtime cfb with nothing but high school tapes to back it up. Can't you see that? He hasn't played even "one" single snap of div1 cfb.
When confronted with this obvious problem you then state it doesn't matter because you can "
feel" he has the IT factor. Furthermore you then claim if anyone else can't "
feel" his IT factor "
you don't have a nose for football".
I don't want the gloves to come off with you Hujan. Surely you can see you're stretching things just a little bit don't you think?
bshirt,
I agree in part with what you're saying. You're right that Carnes has not played a down yet and you're right that his ultimate value is therefore an unknown.
But you're mistaken in (1) saying that I am attributing great things to Carnes, and (2) that all we have to go on are his high school tapes.
Regarding the first point, all I am saying is that Carnes has a few fundamental tools in the toolbox that Martinez does not have and which make him a candidate for a quality QB. In particular, Carnes seems to deal with pressure in the pocket very well and shows poise rolling out of the pocket and making throws on the run. He seems to throw a good ball, too.
Now there are many, many other things he'll need to succeed as a QB. For all we know, he could never grasp the offense or know how to dissect coverages. He might freak out in the heat of the moment. He might suck at working through progressions. But there are a couple things that you can already see that are encouraging, particularly his ability to throw on the run.
As to the second point, our confidence in Carnes' fundamentals is based on more than his high school tapes. In addition to his game footage from high school, we have the fact that he was the scout team MVP, which, if you think about it, is nothing more than an acknowledgment of a kid's fundamentals and/or raw athletic talent. And, of course, all our expectations regarding Carnes' fundamentals and confidence in the pocket were confirmed during his spring game performance.
So, in Carnes, you have a kid whom we can be reasonably certain has good throwing mechanics, confidence in the pocket, and the ability to throw on the run.
At the same time, I was very disappointed that Martinez is still having difficulty with his release and throwing off his back foot. I am also really disappointed that he is still dealing with that ankle injury. I may be in the minority, but I believe that even at 100%, Martinez is only an above average QB. I just don't think you'll see teams that blown away by his running ability anymore. With the injury, he is probably in the bottom 15%.
So, in summary, I don't think that Carnes is the second coming, but I do see a lot of promising fundamentals. As for the "IT" factor, there is just something about some players that you can sense. You can sort of feel that they are special. Turner has it in spades. Is there anyone who doesn't believe he is going to be one of the most exciting offensive players we've had come through here in the last decade? He just has "it." I sense a lot of that in Carnes as well. Maybe not as much, but there is something there for sure.
And maybe the most encouraging thing of all is that the chemistry between him and Turner was palpable. I can see those two being a tandem.
