knapplc
International Man of Mystery
I'd say Tommie's lack of anything resembling a pro career weighs far more heavily into his exclusion than anything. Which is a stupid litmus test, but then who ever said the Hall was logical?
College Football Hall of Fame - 2012 class... No Frazier
- Thread starter knapplc
- Start date
fro daddy
All-Conference
I am no fan of Tebow. However just to play your game...
Frazier
Record as a starter: 33-3
National Championships: 2
Big 8 Conference Championships: 4
National Championship Game MVP awards: 3 (3 straight years)
1995 Heisman runner-up
1995 Golden Arm Award
Career Rushing Yards: 2,263
Career Rushing Atts: 386
Career Rushing TDs: 36
Career Passing Yards: 4003
Career Completion % - 49.3%
Career Passing TDs: 47
Career Passing INTs: 18
Avg. 174 yrds a game & 2.3 scores
Tebow
Record as a starter: 35-6
Played in 55 games
National Championships: 2
SEC Conference Championships: 2
National Championship Game MVP awards: 1
2007 Heisman winner
2008 & 2009 Heisman finalist (3rd & 5th)
2007 AA Team, AP player of the year
2007 Davey O'Brien, 2007 Maxwell, 2008 Manning & Maxwell
Career Rushing Yards: 2,947
Career Rushing Atts: 692
Career Rushing TDs: 57
Career Passing Yards: 9285
Career Completion % - 66.4%
Career Passing TDs: 88
Career Passing INTs: 16
Avg. 224.4 yrds a game & 2.6 scores for career (278.2 yrds a 3.2 scores as a starter)
If you take your blinders off, Tebow is much more impresive for what he did. (nearly 2x as many yards and td's) TF qb'd great teams. He was a good leader and was just what NE needed. He sometimes was the guy to carry NE, but mostly just made sure he got the ball to others. You cant measure leadership. You cant quantify that TF meant more to NE than what TT did to Florida. Its just not possible.
Alot of times things like this come down to stats. And frankly TF's stats are fairly pedestrian for a high caliber player with that many starts
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RedRedJarvisRedwine
All-American
BAH! To me if Tommie doesn't miss a handful of games and Bennett makes a fieldgoal, he goes down as the greatest ever without question. Also and I'm not saying this isn't the same for Tebow but how many 4th quarters did Frazier play in? Fraziers numbers are a little misleading.
Number of undefeated seasons:
Tebow-0
Tommie-2
Number of national championships as starting QB.
Tebow-1
Tommie-2
Saunders
Heisman Trophy Winner
Except for the part that he ran the ball like 20 times a game, threw 5 yard dump passes to Percy harvin that went for 30, played almost the entirety of most of his games, never went undefeated and has only 1 title (if backups count, we have a bunch that have 3 rings).
austinhusker
Five-Star Recruit
BINGO! I totally disagree with the notion Tebow was more impressive than Frazier. It's hard to accumulate stats when your team is winning 40-0 by halftime...
fro daddy
All-Conference
Those are team stats. Alot more that TF had to do with those undefeated season (which are pretty obvious given TF's stats) and TT played a big role for Florida in that first MNC, including 2 scores in the title game. TT sat alot as well as you said, and if Florida doesnt lay an egg in the SEC title game he wins 3 National Titles. Just playing the other side of this arguement
fro daddy
All-Conference
Well considering TF had a completion percentage above 50% only once, and it was barely above 50% maybe you should give more credit to TT for even being able to complete passes.....
knapplc
International Man of Mystery
Name one stat in football that isn't a "team stat." That kind of argument holds no water.
Here's one individual stat, though - name the only player to ever be the MVP of three straight National Championship games. Here's a hint - it's Tommie Frazier.
EDIT - to answer the notion that those of us pimping Frazier need to "take off the blinders," just look at the national media types who were decrying Frazier's omission yesterday. There were a lot. And they are not blinded by anything.
Here's one individual stat, though - name the only player to ever be the MVP of three straight National Championship games. Here's a hint - it's Tommie Frazier.
EDIT - to answer the notion that those of us pimping Frazier need to "take off the blinders," just look at the national media types who were decrying Frazier's omission yesterday. There were a lot. And they are not blinded by anything.
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austinhusker
Five-Star Recruit
3 consecutive NC MVP's basically sums it up...especially considering one of those three came in a losing effort...Man if we would have won that frickin game... :grr
knapplc
International Man of Mystery
A completely blown fumble call on one of FSU's "touchdowns," a very questionable late personal foul and a missed kick on our part. One of the most gut-wrenching games I've ever watched.
RedRedJarvisRedwine
All-American
Still have that poster of William Floyd I believe fumbling at the one while the side judge is blowing his nose!!!
An ill stick to my argument... Tebow had ZERO undefeated seasons and Tommie had 2!! Greatest Evers lead their team to great seasons! Tebow won a NC with one loss. In my opinion that becomes very subjective.
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austinhusker
Five-Star Recruit
fro daddy
All-Conference
FYI, Its not near as impressive when they named MVPs from both teams. So really its not as impressive as people try to make it sound. Perfect example is AustinHusker who clearly had no clue that each team had an MVP.
And really...just how many teams have even played for 3 straight to begin with? How much of that had to do with the number of great defensive standouts that played for Nebraska? You are talking about 2 of possibly the best teams of all time, so to say that he had lots of help is an understatment. Then to use those two great teams to pump your arguement for undefeated seasons is not really doing TF any justice. You could have put a number of players under center for NE and they would not have lost those years. SO yeah its a cool little thing to say. is impressive, But not as impressive as if they only had one MVP.
And yes, some people were upset about him not getting in. And with that said I am not saying he is not deserving. I NEVER said that. I played along with someone who had red glasses on and was throwing a pile of s*!@ against the wall. I just played the other side of that dumb statement. The truth is Knapp that there are better player than him that played for worse teams. I have seen, as you have, great players carry the turnout of programs based on just how good those guys were. They might have only won 7 or 8 or 9 games in a year. But without them their teams would have won 2 or 3. Without TF nebraska was a machine that would have kept going on. Infact if those other players could have played with the talent and coaching on those NE teams, I believe a number of them would have accomplished the same if not more.
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knapplc
International Man of Mystery
The 1993 Orange Bowl MVPs were Tommie Frazier and Charlie Ward (FSU)
The 1994 Orange Bowl MVPs were Tommie Frazier and Chris T. Jones (Miami)
The 1995 Fiesta Bowl had two MVPs - both from Nebraska (Frazier and Michael Booker).
I don't see the relevance of this. Frazier was named MVP of three straight National Championship games. How is that now in dispute?
That also doesn't address the hue and cry raised by national media types yesterday when Frazier was omitted from the Hall.
The 1994 Orange Bowl MVPs were Tommie Frazier and Chris T. Jones (Miami)
The 1995 Fiesta Bowl had two MVPs - both from Nebraska (Frazier and Michael Booker).
I don't see the relevance of this. Frazier was named MVP of three straight National Championship games. How is that now in dispute?
That also doesn't address the hue and cry raised by national media types yesterday when Frazier was omitted from the Hall.
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