Corey Raymond a candidate at LSU?

kchusker_chris said:
'SkersRule said:
kchusker_chris said: "Bo doesn't interview" and "and the list of coaches he can get along with is dwindling."

I disagreed with the substance of your post not because I saw you posted it. Further, I challenged the substance of your post which was to dispute the fact that Bo "doesn't interview" and that he can't "get along" with an ever increasing list of fellow coaches. I'm simply disputing what you typed.

It's your opinion fine, so what is the basis for your opinion?
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The fact that nearly every hire has come from within his inner circle of buddies. It's not top secret. You can argue whether or not it's good/bad if you want, but the truth is he's not the guy that would ever bring in someone too far from the outside...regardless of how proven that person is.

I own businesses, so I look at college football more from a business side. I want the best people working for me. A lot of people defend Bo's hiring by talking about the "coaching circle" and all this and that...but ultimately he's the CEO of an $80 million business. If the CEO of a company did nothing but promote from within and hire buddies...eventually the business dies. You can't innovate or evolve without bringing in outside ideas. And if as the CEO you aren't open to those things, it's only a matter of time before you begin to see the little chinks forming in your armor.

EDIT: actually Tom is probably the CEO - Bo is the Executive VP of Product Development...which means he needs to be even more innovative.
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i tend to agree, Bo is heading the wrong direction......i think he is afraid to hire someone his equal.

 
kchusker_chris said:
if the candidate within is qualified for the position. i wouldn't promote a junior developer (less than 3 years experience) into a senior lead position just because he's a great developer and I don't want him to leave. losing him as a junior developer is far less detrimental to the company than having an unqualified lead...even if a few years down the road he might turn into a great lead. but giving him 2-3 years to develop into that when there's a good chance he won't even still be w/ the company at that time isn't worth it to me.

if i thought JP would be here 10 years from now I'd say this is a great promotion. but these guys come and go so frequently anymore that it's not about promotion anymore in coaching...it's about finding the guy that's best for the position this year, and next year, and maybe the following year. after that it's all bonus.

(software companies in case you can't tell)
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People leave companies for a variety of reasons but typically advancement and more money are the usual ones. If you have an outstanding junior developer then why wouldn't you at least consider promoting him or her? Why not give the junior a reason to stay as opposed to a reason to leave? It sounds like, and this is merely conjecture on my part, that you treat the juniors in your company like they're not worth much and completely expendable. Nothing will foment disloyalty, and leaving at the first chance one gets, than to not be appreciated by upper management or the owner of the company. Now if I'm wrong or off base then I apologize, but that's the way your post comes across.

In relation to college football, any coach worth his salt wants to be a head coach. Very few, in fact probably only a tiny minority, are actually happy with being lifetime assistants. Now coaches that get a head gig, don't make it, and then realize it's better to be an assistant are more numerous. But this notion of having a coaching staff intact for 10, 15, 20+ years is almost unheard of anymore.

 
'SkersRule said:
kchusker_chris said:
if the candidate within is qualified for the position. i wouldn't promote a junior developer (less than 3 years experience) into a senior lead position just because he's a great developer and I don't want him to leave. losing him as a junior developer is far less detrimental to the company than having an unqualified lead...even if a few years down the road he might turn into a great lead. but giving him 2-3 years to develop into that when there's a good chance he won't even still be w/ the company at that time isn't worth it to me.

if i thought JP would be here 10 years from now I'd say this is a great promotion. but these guys come and go so frequently anymore that it's not about promotion anymore in coaching...it's about finding the guy that's best for the position this year, and next year, and maybe the following year. after that it's all bonus.

(software companies in case you can't tell)
Click to expand...
People leave companies for a variety of reasons but typically advancement and more money are the usual ones. If you have an outstanding junior developer then why wouldn't you at least consider promoting him or her? Why not give the junior a reason to stay as opposed to a reason to leave? It sounds like, and this is merely conjecture on my part, that you treat the juniors in your company like they're not worth much and completely expendable. Nothing will foment disloyalty, and leaving at the first chance one gets, than to not be appreciated by upper management or the owner of the company. Now if I'm wrong or off base then I apologize, but that's the way your post comes across.

In relation to college football, any coach worth his salt wants to be a head coach. Very few, in fact probably only a tiny minority, are actually happy with being lifetime assistants. Now coaches that get a head gig, don't make it, and then realize it's better to be an assistant are more numerous. But this notion of having a coaching staff intact for 10, 15, 20+ years is almost unheard of anymore.
Click to expand...
it's not that at all - once again you came to a very odd conclusion. a guy with 3 years development experience is flat out not qualified to lead a team. he is what he is, doesn't mean he won't be some day but experience trumps "potential" any day of the week in the real world. experience produces results, potential ferments hope. I can't make money on hope. Nebraska can't win on hope and potential.

IMO JP does not have the experience to be a DC at Nebraska. DC at FAU...possibly. HC at Chadron...possibly. But being the DC at Nebraska puts him into an elite group of top level coordinators...one of 25-30 actually. I do not feel JP has the resume to justify being in the top 25 coordinators in college football. As early as 4 years ago he was an intern. For him to "expect" the coordinator position, or have Bo in a position where he must promote or watch him leave is not a position Bo should have himself in in the first place.

 
kchusker_chris said:
robsker said:
Nexus said:
Assuming Raymond bolts for LSU, it'll be interesting to observe the rumor mill concerning his replacement. I'm curious who Bo even has on his radar? I know most would welcome back Marvin Sanders but I'm not sure how realistic that is considering the circumstances of his resignation.
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Look for some standout High School coach from Ohio --- or... someone else with little or no college-level coaching success... that seems to be where Bo hires
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if that got us 3-4 top 250 recruits from the area each year...it would likely be worth it. where I have a problem is Bo looking to Hastings College, or New Mexico State Pen. for his staff. Bo doesn't interview, Bo doesn't search...he's got a list w/ a heading "I can get along w/ these guys" - and that list is dwindling with each passing season.

does anyone else notice staff turnover is beginning to be an issue for Bo? and unfortunately the turnover isn't the weak link.
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I don't agree with you here. Every team is going to have turnover. If you don't then it means that you aren't a very good team and nobody else wants any of your assistants. Before Bo got rid of Watson, GIlmore, and Sanders, we were one of, if not the only team to bring back every one of our coaches for 3 years in a row. The changes being made are necessary and an example of Bo doing a great job of evaluating his staff and the things that he is doing with this team.

The new hires to fill those positions on the other hand, are questionable. Regardless, I will definitely hold my judgments until I see what kinds of results each guy can produce on a consistent basis.

 
Typing for my iPad at work.

Raymond would be a huge huge loss to this staff in more ways than one. It took Marvin quite awhile to develop players. Marvin didn't develop depth very well at all his last year. He had opportunities to do it as well and he didn't. Cory Raymond is a big time get for any staff and I really hope he stays.

 
I wish we could redo the season with Marvin and see if we are still saying he didn't develop depth. For some reason it didn't matter who he had back there, he got results. I think he might have done the same thing w/ Green/Evans. Evans was looking very solid end of 10'. There's a reason he didn't progress (and maybe even regressed) in 11'.

 
kchusker_chris said:
I wish we could redo the season with Marvin and see if we are still saying he didn't develop depth. For some reason it didn't matter who he had back there, he got results. I think he might have done the same thing w/ Green/Evans. Evans was looking very solid end of 10'. There's a reason he didn't progress (and maybe even regressed) in 11'.
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I agree, I don't think it's a given the secondary would have struggled as much had Sanders still been on the coaching staff. History would definately suggest otherwise. I don't understand the reasoning for trying to downplay what Marvin did here. He did a phenomenal job.

 
I came to an odd conclusion? Okay. :dunno

Here's what I don't understand: you want continuity on the Nebraska coaching staff and yet you're essentially against hiring from within and the basis is lack of experience? In terms of a proven track record, let's say that Bo wants to hire a proven coordinator from Alabama to take over as DC. Why would proven coordinator in this hypothetical situation take what amounts to a lateral move? Wouldn't said coordinator only leave for a head position the majority of the time? So let's say Bo hires an outstanding position coach from Alabama to be his DC. Doesn't it make sense that once that position coach gets experience as a coordinator that he'll be looking for a head coaching position within 3-5 years, if not sooner, any way? I dunno, maybe I'm just obtuse here.

I think Bo is very smart, he's doing what he thinks will give the Huskers the best opportunity for success next season and beyond, and I think that before we pronounce Papuchis a "bad hire" or anything else we should probably wait to see how it pans out.

Proven track record of past success does not guarantee future success, just as having no experience means no future success is possible.

EDIT: And could you explain how the hiring of Papuchis is good if he stays here 10+ years but it is bad if he leaves after 2-3? I'm a little fuzzy on that particualr train of thought.

 
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kchusker_chris said:
'SkersRule said:
kchusker_chris said:
if the candidate within is qualified for the position. i wouldn't promote a junior developer (less than 3 years experience) into a senior lead position just because he's a great developer and I don't want him to leave. losing him as a junior developer is far less detrimental to the company than having an unqualified lead...even if a few years down the road he might turn into a great lead. but giving him 2-3 years to develop into that when there's a good chance he won't even still be w/ the company at that time isn't worth it to me.

if i thought JP would be here 10 years from now I'd say this is a great promotion. but these guys come and go so frequently anymore that it's not about promotion anymore in coaching...it's about finding the guy that's best for the position this year, and next year, and maybe the following year. after that it's all bonus.

(software companies in case you can't tell)
Click to expand...
People leave companies for a variety of reasons but typically advancement and more money are the usual ones. If you have an outstanding junior developer then why wouldn't you at least consider promoting him or her? Why not give the junior a reason to stay as opposed to a reason to leave? It sounds like, and this is merely conjecture on my part, that you treat the juniors in your company like they're not worth much and completely expendable. Nothing will foment disloyalty, and leaving at the first chance one gets, than to not be appreciated by upper management or the owner of the company. Now if I'm wrong or off base then I apologize, but that's the way your post comes across.

In relation to college football, any coach worth his salt wants to be a head coach. Very few, in fact probably only a tiny minority, are actually happy with being lifetime assistants. Now coaches that get a head gig, don't make it, and then realize it's better to be an assistant are more numerous. But this notion of having a coaching staff intact for 10, 15, 20+ years is almost unheard of anymore.
Click to expand...
it's not that at all - once again you came to a very odd conclusion. a guy with 3 years development experience is flat out not qualified to lead a team. he is what he is, doesn't mean he won't be some day but experience trumps "potential" any day of the week in the real world. experience produces results, potential ferments hope. I can't make money on hope. Nebraska can't win on hope and potential.

IMO JP does not have the experience to be a DC at Nebraska. DC at FAU...possibly. HC at Chadron...possibly. But being the DC at Nebraska puts him into an elite group of top level coordinators...one of 25-30 actually. I do not feel JP has the resume to justify being in the top 25 coordinators in college football. As early as 4 years ago he was an intern. For him to "expect" the coordinator position, or have Bo in a position where he must promote or watch him leave is not a position Bo should have himself in in the first place.
Click to expand...
Well, Bo's first time being a DC was at Nebraska.

 
Hunter94 said:
kchusker_chris said:
'SkersRule said:
kchusker_chris said: "Bo doesn't interview" and "and the list of coaches he can get along with is dwindling."

I disagreed with the substance of your post not because I saw you posted it. Further, I challenged the substance of your post which was to dispute the fact that Bo "doesn't interview" and that he can't "get along" with an ever increasing list of fellow coaches. I'm simply disputing what you typed.

It's your opinion fine, so what is the basis for your opinion?
Click to expand...
The fact that nearly every hire has come from within his inner circle of buddies. It's not top secret. You can argue whether or not it's good/bad if you want, but the truth is he's not the guy that would ever bring in someone too far from the outside...regardless of how proven that person is.

I own businesses, so I look at college football more from a business side. I want the best people working for me. A lot of people defend Bo's hiring by talking about the "coaching circle" and all this and that...but ultimately he's the CEO of an $80 million business. If the CEO of a company did nothing but promote from within and hire buddies...eventually the business dies. You can't innovate or evolve without bringing in outside ideas. And if as the CEO you aren't open to those things, it's only a matter of time before you begin to see the little chinks forming in your armor.

EDIT: actually Tom is probably the CEO - Bo is the Executive VP of Product Development...which means he needs to be even more innovative.
Click to expand...

i tend to agree, Bo is heading the wrong direction......i think he is afraid to hire someone his equal.
Click to expand...
The rule of thumb is always hire someone better than you. This is how progress is made.

 
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