Do We Have the Talent We Need?

YetiJR said:
Nebraska fans, "We have no depth at receiver!!!!," 6 Mike Riley WR recruits transfer, 50% of which before frost gets to campus.
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Frost's WR Recruits

2018:

  • Jaron Woodyard commits after Frost's hire. Transfers to Marshall. 
  • Andre Hunt commits after Frost's hire. Never played, expelled.
  • Justin McGriff commits after Frost's hire. Transfers to Utah State.
  • Mike Williams commits after Frost's hire. 17 catches in 2 years.
  • Dominick Watts commits after Frost's hire. Never makes it to campus. 

2019:

  • Demariyon Houston. Hasn't played?
  • Kanawoi Noa. 17 receptions in 1 year here.

2020:

  • Zavier Betts. 12 receptions, 131 yards, 1 TD. 
  • Marcus Fleming. Transferring. 
  • Omar Manning...
  • Alante Brown. 1 reception. 
  • William Nixon. Knee injury, has not played.

Maybe, just maybe, Mike Riley isn't our problem with WR retention and production over 3 years after his departure. Or we can keep rationalizing for Frost.

 
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luvthecorn said:
I wouldn't classify myself as an angry fan, but I do think it's dangerous to evaluate the situation based upon "what could have been." Yes, we have lost many close games, but many of the few games we have won have also been close. Frost's 11-20 could also easily be 7-24. To me, the eye test is important. You can look at historical stats and recruiting rankings 'til you're blue in the face, but if the product you see on the field every week looks the same, it becomes pretty clear that "progress" is just a mirage created by those who want to see Coach succeed. That is human nature. Anyone but Scott Frost would be justifiably on a very hot seat right now. On the other hand, it would not be smart to gamble on catching lightning in a bottle with a new coach without giving it another year or two to see if things get turned around.
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I completely agree with your post luvthecorn.   The ultimate stat is the Win/Loss record, but beyond that, looking at teams stats and the trends for points scored and points allowed, Frost has the program trending in the wrong direction in Year 3.  I have a feeling if Mike Riley was our coach over these past 3 years (with the record and stats we are seeing) and did not have prior ties to Nebraska, there would be far more criticism of him and more calls for him to be fired.  

 
QMany said:
Frost's WR Recruits

2018:

  • Jaron Woodyard commits after Frost's hire. Transfers to Marshall. 
  • Andre Hunt commits after Frost's hire. Never played, expelled.
  • Justin McGriff commits after Frost's hire. Transfers to Utah State.
  • Mike Williams commits after Frost's hire. 17 catches in 2 years.
  • Dominick Watts commits after Frost's hire. Never makes it to campus. 

2019:

  • Demariyon Houston. Hasn't played?
  • Kanawoi Noa. 17 receptions in 1 year here.

2020:

  • Zavier Betts. 12 receptions, 131 yards, 1 TD. 
  • Marcus Fleming. Transferring. 
  • Omar Manning...
  • Alante Brown. 1 reception. 
  • William Nixon. Knee injury, has not played.

Maybe, just maybe, Mike Riley isn't our problem with WR retention and production over 3 years after his departure. Or we can keep rationalizing for Frost.
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Missing Wan'Dale... but maybe, just maybe that doesn't fit your agenda. 

 
QMany said:
Frost's WR Recruits

2018:

  • Jaron Woodyard commits after Frost's hire. Transfers to Marshall. 
  • Andre Hunt commits after Frost's hire. Never played, gone.
  • Justin McGriff commits after Frost's hire. Transfers to Utah State.
  • Mike Williams commits after Frost's hire. 17 catches in 2 years.
  • Dominick Watts commits after Frost's hire. Never makes it to campus. 

2019:

  • Demariyon Houston. Hasn't played?
  • Kanawoi Noa. 17 receptions in 1 year here.

2020:

  • Zavier Betts. 12 receptions (5 Purdue), 131 yards, 1 TD. 
  • Marcus Fleming. Transferring. 
  • Omar Manning...
  • Alante Brown. 1 reception. 
  • William Nixon. Knee injury, has not played.

Maybe, just maybe, Mike Riley isn't our problem with WR retention and production over 3 years after his departure. Or we can keep rationalizing for Frost.
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Great post and summary!

 
QMany said:
Frost's WR Recruits

2018:

  • Jaron Woodyard commits after Frost's hire. Transfers to Marshall. Shot in the dark juco to try and fill a need
  • Andre Hunt commits after Frost's hire. Never played, gone. On track to contribute, absolute POS though apparently
  • Justin McGriff commits after Frost's hire. Transfers to Utah State. Recruited at TE I believe, he was at WR initially though
  • Mike Williams commits after Frost's hire. 17 catches in 2 years. Shot in the dark juco to try and fill a need
  • Dominick Watts commits after Frost's hire. Never makes it to campus. 

2019:

  • Demariyon Houston. Hasn't played?
  • Jamie Nance - hasn't played
  • Darien Chase - was playing, transferred to be closer to home
  • Kanawoi Noa. 17 receptions in 1 year here. 
  • Wan'Dale - best player on our offense

2020:

  • Zavier Betts. 12 receptions (5 Purdue), 131 yards, 1 TD. 
  • Marcus Fleming. Transferring. 
  • Omar Manning... Injured
  • Alante Brown. 1 reception. Playing
  • William Nixon. Knee injury, has not played.

Maybe, just maybe, Mike Riley isn't our problem with WR retention and production over 3 years after his departure. Or we can keep rationalizing for Frost.
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This staff missed in 2018-19, but Woodyard, Williams, and Noa were only meant to be stop gaps. Hunt, Watt, and Chase actually look like they were going to be solid, but didn't work out for various reasons. And it's a little early for Houston/Nance, but the upperclassmen should be

  • Spielman
  • Lindsey
  • Keyshawn Jr.
  • McQuitty
  • Grim

Frost and co are not blameless, but a bigger factor in the lack of WRs is still the Riley guys. Stop gaps and replacements are always going to be higher risk than keeping kids. I've said it before - there's an alternate universe where Spielman, Lindsey, Wan'Dale, Chase, and Manning form one of the most exciting receiving corps in the conference. That didn't happen, but it's not like this staff just didn't recruit receivers. I don't think anyone saw the situations with Hunt or Chase coming, and unless we're blaming this staff for injuries you're being a little harsh on Omar and Nixon.

 
QMany said:
Or just maybe he was listed as an All Purpose Back on 247, which is part of their Running Back group. 
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He was recruited as Duck-R, which is primarily receiver. McCaffrey is listed as an athlete, would you exclude him from a summary of our QB recruiting?

Also forgot you left out Falck and Martin this year, and Warner/Liewer as walk-ons. People can hate on them all they want, they have not been our problem the latter part of this year.

 
Add him to the list, man! I was just going through 247 WR recruits, not assigning subjective position use to anyone, like those recruited by our RB coach.

That completely absolves Frost  :facepalm:

 
Agreed with @Husker in WI above, Riley's staff was to blame for the poor depth at the receiver spot initially. Striking out with all the big names they pursued set us back quite a bit. Same goes for offensive line and their big miss with Foster Sarell as they would go all in on top guys, miss and scramble to find replacements. This was how Chris Walker got a scholarship versus a greyshirt or walk-on.

Now, Frost & Co. tried finding some bandaids that ended up being less productive than hoped. I also think the Hunt/LeGrone situation severely hurt us as Hunt was expected to be a starter last season and LeGrone was in the rotation top 5-6. Those two being kicked out put the staff behind the 8-ball and pushed Noa out wide. Thankfully they are addressing the issue with the past couple classes that will hopefully translate to better success next year and beyond. 

 
QMany said:
Frost's WR Recruits

2018:

  • Jaron Woodyard commits after Frost's hire. Transfers to Marshall. 
  • Andre Hunt commits after Frost's hire. Never played, expelled.
  • Justin McGriff commits after Frost's hire. Transfers to Utah State.
  • Mike Williams commits after Frost's hire. 17 catches in 2 years.
  • Dominick Watts commits after Frost's hire. Never makes it to campus. 

2019:

  • Demariyon Houston. Hasn't played?
  • Kanawoi Noa. 17 receptions in 1 year here.

2020:

  • Zavier Betts. 12 receptions, 131 yards, 1 TD. 
  • Marcus Fleming. Transferring. 
  • Omar Manning...
  • Alante Brown. 1 reception. 
  • William Nixon. Knee injury, has not played.

Maybe, just maybe, Mike Riley isn't our problem with WR retention and production over 3 years after his departure. Or we can keep rationalizing for Frost.
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2018: 

Woodyard - Stop gap

Watts - .. Didn't make it as listed. 

Williams - Stop gap

McGriff - Was projected as a possible TE?

Hunt - .. How are you supposed to predict what he did?

Love how you left the fact that Frost had 2-3 months to fill this class out and had to bring in two JUCO's in the first place to fill depth, a gadget slot guy like McGriff, as well as an on the edge guy like Watts.

2020:

Noa: Again??? Trying to fill lack of depth left by Riley and was meant to only be a 1 year player. 

Houston: Known as a developmental player, like most young wide receivers.

Zavier: Showing out as a freshmen

Fleming: You know Covid is an issue this season.

Manning: JUCO again because of lack of depth.

Brown: Fresh

Nixon: Fresh

I guess you want to make points that want to only fill your agenda that Scott didn't walk into a s#!t show when it comes to depth. Also, that we should expect all freshmen receivers to have an immediate impact. 

By the way, all 5 WR's you listed were recruited in Frost's time in the those last 3 months of him getting to Nebraska. Which means that Riley didn't have a single WR commit for the 2018 class.

 
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QMany said:
@Mavric, I'm curious, why did you break it down 2015-2018 and then 2019-2020? Doesn't that imply the 2018 class and its shortcomings are somehow on Riley, not Frost? 

Riley inherited classes ranked:

  • 35th
  • 22nd
  • 32nd

Frost inherited classes ranked:

  • 23rd
  • 26th
  • 30th

Riley went 19-19; Frost is 11-20.

I recall this same "Do we have the talent?" conversation during the last regime. We did, we do; we still don't have the coaching, playcalling, clock management, player development, etc. 
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Well, I mostly broke it there because that's what Frost has to work with.  The 2015 Class was mostly Pelini recruits but was a transition class.  The 2018 class was a lot of what Frost could come up with in two weeks.  So between two transition classes and what Riley recruited, that's what Frost started with and has for upper classmen right now. 

And yes, there was the talent discussion during Riley's first year.  I was one that said we had the talent.  People who continued to want to blame Pelini for everything said we didn't.  I think we found out after three years of seeing Riley that it was mostly Riley.  Riley inherited a bunch of NFL players in Maliek Collins, Vincent Valentine, Alex Lewis, Andy Janovich, Nathan Gerry, Khalil Davis, Carlos Davis, Freedom Akinmoladun, Cethan Carter, Nick Gates, Luke Gifford, Chris Jones, Joshua Kalu and Stanley Morgan from Pelini.  Frost inherited Ozigbo and Lamar Jackson that Riley recruited and are in the NFL.  Will probably add Jaimes and Domann and probably a couple others.  Those lists don't look similar to me.

But I'm not so much trying to blame anyone for it.  Just pointing out that I don't think it's really fair to judge Frost's offense at this point because he's had to patchwork it together because there wasn't much to work with.  And he's had some bad luck (or whatever you want to call it) in that some of the guys who showed promise didn't work out or haven't gotten on the field yet (Washington, Bell, Manning, etc.) and so a lot of the talent is still trying to get up to speed, particularly after how screwed up this year has been.  Not a good year for trying to get a lot of young guys going.

 
Mavric said:
But I'm not so much trying to blame anyone for it.  Just pointing out that I don't think it's really fair to judge Frost's offense at this point because he's had to patchwork it together because there wasn't much to work with.  And he's had some bad luck (or whatever you want to call it) in that some of the guys who showed promise didn't work out or haven't gotten on the field yet (Washington, Bell, Manning, etc.) and so a lot of the talent is still trying to get up to speed, particularly after how screwed up this year has been.  Not a good year for trying to get a lot of young guys going.
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I think Hunt being an irredeemable pos was a pretty big loss that people don't mention as much. Which I get. I don't blame people for wanting to forget he was ever here, but iirc he was set to get a lot of targets last season and it was after fall camp so he probably took a lot of the first team reps that someone else could have used. 

 
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