Double Standard ?

[BigRedBuster]

I can only talk about what I have seen in various places, especially in the South, that I have lived. They are my own experiences and my own interpretation of them so I don't want to hear a bunch of s$*t...but what I'm talking about are the super-restrictive dress codes at bars, the members-only clubs and billiards lounges, the massive networks of private schools founded post-brown v. board, the public transportation systems that end just outside of white neighborhoods, white neighborhoods that are kept white with gates and housing authorities and even some things I've seen with police. I'm not some bleeding heart liberal but the de facto segregation and discrimination that exists in this country, at least in the South, is very real.

Calm down tex.....I simply asked a question. I fully understand that racism still exists and quite frankly it pisses me off. I asked my question simply because I had never heard of a dating site being racist...etc.

Racism pisses me off for many reasons. First, because it simply is the dumbest damn thing that someone can waste time and energy on. If someone has time to care about what color someone's skin is, they have way too much time on your hands. If someone is too much of a dip sh#t to hire a minority, GREAT...I'll hire them and gain from the diversity and expertise I can find in that part of the population.

Also, racism pisses me off because I am so sick and tired of being looked at and just assumed I'm racist because I'm a middle aged, white male living in the US. I'm tired of seeing headlines of articles talking about how "even if you aren't racist, you benefit from racism"...bla bla bla..... It's like many in the media think that the way to combat it is..."let's make everyone feel like crap". I'm sick of everything that has to do with racism.

 

[BigRedBuster]

I can't think of any scenario where the law doesn't already provide protection and recourse.

Stand Your Ground disagrees, as one example.

The law says only white people can stand their ground against black people?

 

[Landlord]

I can't think of any scenario where the law doesn't already provide protection and recourse.

Stand Your Ground disagrees, as one example.

The law says only white people can stand their ground against black people?

The law allows for people to take violent action before actually being acted against, which gives people the ability to profile and stereotype, and a black kid in a hoodie is infinitely more easily stereotyped than a white guy in a polo, regardless of behavior.

Caucasians using stand-your-ground against blacks are found justified 17% of the time.

Blacks using stand-your-ground against whites are found justified 1% of the time.

Come on buster - don't act like just because a law doesn't explicitly state something that it can't still have that intended effect.

Check out what Jon Stewart and co. had to say on the matter when a white guy shot at four black kids (killing one of them) in an SUV who didn't do anything, and didn't go to jail for murdering the one, but went to jail for attempting to murder the other three:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/cxokl2/unjustified

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/f28pny/unjustified---michael-dunn---jordan-davis

 

[BigRedBuster]

There is a difference between the actual law and the implementation of the law. The law itself is not racist that I know of.

I probably could find a statistic that black males are pulled over for speeding more often then white males. So, are speeding tickets racist?

 

[tschu]

Tons of laws are not overtly racist, but the intent and result is racist. Voter ID laws, for example.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Tons of laws are not overtly racist, but the intent and result is racist. Voter ID laws, for example.

So, black people can't get IDs?

 

[Landlord]

There is a difference between the actual law and the implementation of the law. The law itself is not racist that I know of.

Yeah...I already touched on that:

The individual laws themselves are important but not the end all - you still have the systems that enact and enforce those laws, the people that write them, and tons of other things in place that are still very much perpetuating inequality.

The point is that the law might not be overtly racist, as tschu points out, but the law allows for racism to continue, and there are many such laws that still perpetuate a racist institution.

 

[tschu]

Tons of laws are not overtly racist, but the intent and result is racist. Voter ID laws, for example.

So, black people can't get IDs?

That's the (incorrect) argument. Voter ID laws are in place because of a problem that doesn't even exist. There is almost zero voter fraud in this country, yet the Republican right champions voter ID laws to combat this alleged fraud. Voter ID laws overwhelmingly affect poor minorities - most who live in cities, don't drive or can't afford a car, and therefore don't have an ID. They'd need to pay a small fee and actually go get an ID to vote, yet these laws make no provisions to get people IDs for free or at no inconvenience. Now you might say it sounds lazy or ridiculous, but it's just one more hurdle and one that is specifically designed to keep minorities from voting. There is no reason for that hurdle to exist. It is a racist and specifically targeted proposed law, designed to keep these people from voting, with the goal being political gain. Yes, it is racist.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Tons of laws are not overtly racist, but the intent and result is racist. Voter ID laws, for example.

So, black people can't get IDs?

That's the (incorrect) argument. Voter ID laws are in place because of a problem that doesn't even exist. There is almost zero voter fraud in this country, yet the Republican right champions voter ID laws to combat this alleged fraud. Voter ID laws overwhelmingly affect poor minorities - most who live in cities, don't drive or can't afford a car, and therefore don't have an ID. They'd need to pay a small fee and actually go get an ID to vote, yet these laws make no provisions to get people IDs for free or at no inconvenience. Now you might say it sounds lazy or ridiculous, but it's just one more hurdle and one that is specifically designed to keep minorities from voting. There is no reason for that hurdle to exist. It is a racist and specifically targeted proposed law, designed to keep these people from voting, with the goal being political gain. Yes, it is racist.

Then fix the law by making it free and accessible?

And, from your own argument, I would say it discriminates against poor people in general. Now, more black people might be poor which is a problem in and of itself. But, that doesn't make the bill racist.

 

[tschu]

Yeah, but then why would Republicans want to put the law in place? It wouldn't help them win elections, and it would cost the government money.

 

[BigRedBuster]

There is a difference between the actual law and the implementation of the law. The law itself is not racist that I know of.

Yeah...I already touched on that:

The individual laws themselves are important but not the end all - you still have the systems that enact and enforce those laws, the people that write them, and tons of other things in place that are still very much perpetuating inequality.

The point is that the law might not be overtly racist, as tschu points out, but the law allows for racism to continue, and there are many such laws that still perpetuate a racist institution.

So, if speed limit laws gives cops an opportunity to discriminate by pulling over more black men then white women, why not get rid of speed limits? I know my pocket book would have more money in it if they did.

 

[Landlord]

So, if speed limit laws gives cops an opportunity to discriminate by pulling over more black men then white women, why not get rid of speed limits? I know my pocket book would have more money in it if they did.

Or instead of getting rid of them you could modify them to like, I don't know, prevent cops from having the opportunity to discriminate using their racial bias? What is the point you are trying to make here?

 

[tschu]

De facto racism is a thing. Something can be racist without being RACIST.

 

[BigRedBuster]

So, if speed limit laws gives cops an opportunity to discriminate by pulling over more black men then white women, why not get rid of speed limits? I know my pocket book would have more money in it if they did.

Or instead of getting rid of them you could modify them to like, I don't know, prevent cops from having the opportunity to discriminate using their racial bias? What is the point you are trying to make here?

Thank you for making my point.

Laws like what have been mentioned here are being mentioned as horrible laws because of racism. I personally don't see how you can say that. It's the racism that is bad not the law.

NOW...I'm not saying I believe in laws such as Stand Your ground. I honestly would need to look into it much farther to decide that. Sitting here right now, I can see good and bad to that law. Same with Voter Registration.

Part of what I get sick and tired of is arbitrary stuff being lumped into issues like "racism" and there is a large part of the population that will sit back and agree that it's racism because THEY don't want to be accused of being racist for arguing against that point.

Fact is, racists are jack asses that exist. Laws exist. If I were a racist, I think I could probably find a way to use just about any law on the books in a racist manner. That doesn't make the law racist. It makes me a racists jack a$$.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Yeah, but then why would Republicans want to put the law in place? It wouldn't help them win elections, and it would cost the government money.

If the Democrats had a brain in their head they would use this against the Republicans in an even bigger way.

Why don't we implement voter ID laws. BUT...doing so, we must make it free to everyone and accessible. That is going to require offices in every neighborhood (especially inner cities). Now, to man those offices, it is going to take maybe 4-5 people per office. It will also take a management structure that will employ people.

I could see this taking 50 billion dollars and employing well over 1 million people which will come from the neighborhoods the offices are in. (total guesses for conversation sake). How is it going to be paid for? Well....let's increase the higher wage earner's taxes by X amount to pay for it.

BA DA BING!!!!!!! Republicans have voter ID laws. Dems have higher taxes on the rich and they both employed more people.

Did I mention that it's free and accessible to everyone? Did I mention you are taking money from the rich and employing inner city minorities with the money?