Economy

[BigRedBuster]

FAFO!!!

 

[BigRedBuster]

[No message]

 

[BigRedBuster]

[No message]

 

[Archy1221]

FAFO!!!

And people kept trying to tell me the debt doesn’t matter.    it certainly is a FAFO moment 

 

[Ratt Mhule]

And people kept trying to tell me the debt doesn’t matter.    it certainly is a FAFO moment 

Maybe Trump shouldnt have added the most of any president in US history in his first term. You voted for that in 2016, so blame yourself. 

 

[Ratt Mhule]

China raises tariffs to 84% from 34%. At this point, trade with China is done. Expect Trump to raise it even more today. Great, well thought out plan from the guy with a 2nd grade vocabulary. Who could have ever seen this coming?

 

[BigRedBuster]

Dow futures at -728. 
 

Hey MAGA….are we great again yet?

Scratch that…..-812

 

[Ratt Mhule]

Like many things, the Simpsons predicted this long ago. We inherited quite a budget crunch from president Trump. Look what Lisa is wearing, remind you of anyone…

 

[Archy1221]

Maybe Trump shouldnt have added the most of any president in US history in his first term. You voted for that in 2016, so blame yourself. 

Yes he added the most and that’s not a good thing.  However, Did you want us to lock down during Covid or not?  We know that added $3.6 trillion of debt.  $2.5 trillion was considered debt from tax cut law of which we know treasuries increased but much more than that in part because of tax cuts juicing an economic increase.  They are largely paid for by now.  And then  $2.3 trillion in general spending increases as I said before is not good.  
 

So if you didn’t want to lock down at all during Covid, and didn’t want more of your own money back, you would certainly have a point about him increasing the debt more than anyone else in 4 years.  Otherwise he was roughly in line with others as a percentage, which for the third time, isn’t good.  
Though people kept telling me debt doesn’t matter 

 

[Ratt Mhule]

Yes he added the most and that’s not a good thing.  However, Did you want us to lock down during Covid or not?  We know that added $3.6 trillion of debt.  $2.5 trillion was considered debt from tax cut law of which we know treasuries increased but much more than that in part because of tax cuts juicing an economic increase.  They are largely paid for by now.  And then  $2.3 trillion in general spending increases as I said before is not good.  
 

So if you didn’t want to lock down at all during Covid, and didn’t want more of your own money back, you would certainly have a point about him increasing the debt more than anyone else in 4 years.  Otherwise he was roughly in line with others as a percentage, which for the third time, isn’t good.  
Though people kept telling me debt doesn’t matter 

I dont know if locking down was the right thing to do, all I know is it was the worst possible pandemic response that could have possibly happened in every which, way and form. Our  hospitals were so full we had covid patients lining the halls and dead bodies piling up in trucks and mass graves being dug because morgues couldnt take any more people. Maybe if Trump actually had a plan, like the pandemic response plan, that was left to him, it wouldnt have gotten to the point of shutting down. Instead it was chaos, just like everything is with Trump, and there was no plan other than hope it goes away. So I guess there was no choice but to shut down or things would have gotten much, much worse. Trump was responsible for that. Trump was responsible for shutting the country down because there was no other plan. Trump is responsible for this dumbass trade war. Trump will be responsible for bankrupting our country. Trump is responsible for ruining our relationship with our trading partners. Trump is responsible, not the democrats. But you will somehow blame the democrats.

 

[Archy1221]

. Trump is responsible for this dumbass trade war.

Yep

Trump will be responsible for bankrupting our country.

Our country was already drowning in debt, both realized and unrealized.  Unfortunately Trump is doing what all the recent Presidents beside Clinton did and ratchet up the debt and do nothing with the massive SS and Medicare obligations we can’t afford as those programs will run out of funding.  
 

Trump is responsible for ruining our relationship with our trading partners.

Yep.  They certainly aren’t happy atm.  (Neither is my 401k!) 

But you will somehow blame the democrats

Please see above and please modify your statement.  Thank you for your understanding in this matter!  
 

So I guess there was no choice but to shut down or things would have gotten much, much worse

Trump wasn’t in charge of Canada, Italy, UK, Germany, China, France, etc etc etc…..who all shut down. 
 

Maybe if Trump actually had a plan, like the pandemic response plan, that was left to him, it wouldnt have gotten to the point of shutting down.

Trump wasn’t in charge of Canada, UK, Italy, France, Germany, China, etc etc etc…who all shut down 

 

[Ratt Mhule]

Yep

Our country was already drowning in debt, both realized and unrealized.  Unfortunately Trump is doing what all the recent Presidents beside Clinton did and ratchet up the debt and do nothing with the massive SS and Medicare obligations we can’t afford as those programs will run out of funding.  
 

Yep.  They certainly aren’t happy atm.  (Neither is my 401k!) 

Please see above and please modify your statement.  Thank you for your understanding in this matter!  
 

Trump wasn’t in charge of Canada, Italy, UK, Germany, China, France, etc etc etc…..who all shut down. 
 

Trump wasn’t in charge of Canada, UK, Italy, France, Germany, China, etc etc etc…who all shut down 

Hey bud, SS isnt part of the national debt. Its a self sustaining program. If we did nothing at all, everyone would still get 78% of the benefits we paid in. The way to fix SS is by lifting the cap. Why are billionaires paying the same percentage as us? Thats the problem and the solution to SS. And if you want to cut funding somewhere, taking healthcare from Grandma is not the solution either. Look at the pentagon budget and start there if you want to cut wasteful spending. 

 

[Archy1221]

Here’s a synopsis of the advent of Trump’s tariffs plans. This can all be independently verified without you having to suffer through Rachel explaining, with the usual snark, virtually the same things.

Peter Navarro is the economist that Trump puts his faith in. In his first campaign he didn’t have an economic advisor so he asked Jared Kushner to find him one. Apparently the guidance was to find somebody that shared Trump’s “China bad” outlook. Kushner went to look up books on Amazon and one title stuck out, “Death by China” authored by Peter Navarro. In that book Navarro numerous times cites the economic expert Ron Vara for his views on tariffs, trade deficits and China. Problem is, there was no such Ron Vara expert. That is simply an anagram of the name Navarro. So the guy Trump trusts to advise him on these tariffs is just some guy that claimed his backup expert was himself. I mean you can’t make this s#!t up. And people actually think Trump is some economics guru receiving great advise from the brightest minds when in reality it’s just some guy that lies about his sources and who is shunned by actual economists. Here’s a chunk from wiki.

Navarro is a professor emeritus of economics and public policy at the Paul Merage School of Business of the University of California, Irvine. Navarro ran unsuccessfully for office in San Diego, California, five times. In January 2017, he joined the first Trump administration as an advisor on trade. As a senior administration official, Navarro encouraged President Trump to implement protectionist trade policies. He was a key official behind the China–United States trade war and advocating for hardline policies towards China; he was sanctioned by China after leaving office. During his final year in the Trump administration, Navarro was involved in the administration's COVID-19 response. He was also named the national Defense Production Actpolicy coordinator in 2020. Early on, he issued private warnings within the administration about the threat posed by the virus, but downplayed the risks in public. He publicly clashed with Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, as Navarro advocated hydroxychloroquine as a treatment of COVID-19 and condemned various public health measures that aimed to stop the spread of the virus.

Navarro sought to overturn the 2020 presidential election and advanced conspiracy theories of election fraud and in February 2022 was subpoenaed twice by Congress. Navarro refused to comply and was referred to the Justice Department. In 2022, a grand jury indicted him on two counts of contempt of Congress. In 2023, Navarro was convicted on both counts, and in 2024, he was sentenced to four months in jail, becoming the first former White House official imprisoned on a contempt-of-Congressconviction. In January 2025, he was appointed as the senior counselor for trade and manufacturing for President Trump in his second term. In his second term, Navarro became a key official behind Trump's imposition of tariffs on Canada, China and Mexico as well as the "reciprocal tariff" policyannounced in April.

Navarro's views on trade are significantly outside the mainstream of economic thought, and are widely considered fringeby other economists.[a] A strong proponent of reducing U.S. trade deficits, Navarro is well known for his hardline views on China, describing the country as an existential threat to the United States. 
 

Here’s the link.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Navarro

Really it would have been easier to just watch Maddow for 5 minutes but I get it. I don’t really like listening to her either.

So back to my question. Do you still feel comfortable thinking Trump may actually know what he’s doing and time will tell if his tariff plans will work out? The whole basis for his tariffs, reciprocal tariffs and trade deficits and all of it is rooted in the advice he receives from Navarro.

That sounds like a less than ideal choice for an advisor. 
 

My view hasn’t changed.  I was ok with targeted tariffs, even with some true reciprocal tariffs as I don’t see why a country can slap a tariff on our goods but we need to allow theirs into our country free and clear.  And with trade deficits, the sheer size of the size kinda makes it impossible for us to not have deficits with many/most countries.   The size of the deficit wanted could be debated.  
 

Across the board tariffs on everything using the formula they are using isn’t something I am on board with 

 

[Ratt Mhule]

Yep

Our country was already drowning in debt, both realized and unrealized.  Unfortunately Trump is doing what all the recent Presidents beside Clinton did and ratchet up the debt and do nothing with the massive SS and Medicare obligations we can’t afford as those programs will run out of funding.  
 

Yep.  They certainly aren’t happy atm.  (Neither is my 401k!) 

Please see above and please modify your statement.  Thank you for your understanding in this matter!  
 

Trump wasn’t in charge of Canada, Italy, UK, Germany, China, France, etc etc etc…..who all shut down. 
 

Trump wasn’t in charge of Canada, UK, Italy, France, Germany, China, etc etc etc…who all shut down 

Start at 44:00 for the SS conversation. You might learn something. 

 

[Archy1221]

Hey bud, SS isnt part of the national debt.

Hey bud, we know and that’s the problem because it’s still an unfounded obligation we have to pay for while not being counted as debt.  
 

If we did nothing at all, everyone would still get 78% of the benefits we paid in.

Assuming your number is correct, which it usually isn’t…..yeah us ?!?!?  $.78 on the dollar isnt a good thing 

The way to fix SS is by lifting the cap. Why are billionaires paying the same percentage as us?

Fine with me.  But at the same time allow me to invest 1/3 to 1/2 OF THE MONEY I PUT IN into my own S&P retirement savings account while we are making changes.   Maybe then, people won’t be living on $1,700 a month in SS payments. 
 

And if you want to cut funding somewhere, taking healthcare from Grandma is not the solution either.

Good thing that isn’t being proposed.   
 

Look at the pentagon budget and start there if you want to cut wasteful spending

I haven’t disagreed with this when it’s previously been talked about.   Wasteful spending happens is every department of government so we can start everywhere. 

8 minutes ago, Ratt Mhule said:

I’m pretty well versed in SS, but thanks anyways