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TheSker said:
We're better off in the long run if Hickman can keep his year.  Simple as that.  Especially since he'd been injured.
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Would we though? There are as many if's to him keeping his redshirt, or any players redshirt, as there are to if he burned it. If the coaches preach no fear of failure and a desire to excel, then they have not followed that with who they have played this year. They have been extremely conservative this year and it shows in the record. Would Hickman or Johnson playing meaningful snaps this year have helped our chances at a bowl game? No one knows that but it can't be worse than what we are seeing now. Does having Hickman and Johnson keep their redshirt for another year mean it will work out in the long run? No one knows that, in theory it could be great, but also could end in them being injured, transferring, getting passed by someone else, etc. I see both sides of the argument , but if the goal this year was to be bowl eligible, then you have to do what ever is necessary to get to that because a bowl and extra practices is going to go a very long way for the future of  this team then sitting at home in December looking down a brutal 2020 season and us fans sitting there saying " Well at least we got Hickman and Johnson for another year."

 
Ziebol said:
Would we though? There are as many if's to him keeping his redshirt, or any players redshirt, as there are to if he burned it. If the coaches preach no fear of failure and a desire to excel, then they have not followed that with who they have played this year. They have been extremely conservative this year and it shows in the record. Would Hickman or Johnson playing meaningful snaps this year have helped our chances at a bowl game? No one knows that but it can't be worse than what we are seeing now. Does having Hickman and Johnson keep their redshirt for another year mean it will work out in the long run? No one knows that, in theory it could be great, but also could end in them being injured, transferring, getting passed by someone else, etc. I see both sides of the argument , but if the goal this year was to be bowl eligible, then you have to do what ever is necessary to get to that because a bowl and extra practices is going to go a very long way for the future of  this team then sitting at home in December looking down a brutal 2020 season and us fans sitting there saying " Well at least we got Hickman and Johnson for another year."
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Yes sir. Also missing a bowl game again is not a good look for recruiting. We need to have the appearance of trending up. 

 
cheekygeek said:
I don’t know quite how to say this, but my biggest concern is our head coach’s detachment from the defense. He delegates and there seems to be no accountability other than “we’ve got to do a better job as coaches” (and players and equipment managers). His curt “I don’t call the defense” answer sticks in my craw like a dry, unbuttered biscuit. I feel like Frost is an OC and not a HC and that is costing the team in multiple ways. I also am starting to feel like his evaluation of some of his assistant coaches is colored by UCF’s magical undefeated season, which made him believe he had the greatest assistant coaches in the world. They are not translating well to the BigTen so far and, while I can see some playmakers wanting to play in Frost’s offense, I see recruiting Blue Chip defenders as a huge problem until we get a defense that isn’t going to showcase embarrassing games and make mediocre teams look like world-beaters.
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This is a big concern of mine as well. As the head coach it is his job to keep tabs on offense, special teams and defense. Every piece of the program needs to have his fingerprint. He does talk more like an OC than a head coach. He is responsible for the D and needs to take heat for them sucking not just deflect and say that is Chins job.

 
Ziebol said:
Would we though? There are as many if's to him keeping his redshirt, or any players redshirt, as there are to if he burned it. If the coaches preach no fear of failure and a desire to excel, then they have not followed that with who they have played this year. They have been extremely conservative this year and it shows in the record. Would Hickman or Johnson playing meaningful snaps this year have helped our chances at a bowl game? No one knows that but it can't be worse than what we are seeing now. Does having Hickman and Johnson keep their redshirt for another year mean it will work out in the long run? No one knows that, in theory it could be great, but also could end in them being injured, transferring, getting passed by someone else, etc. I see both sides of the argument , but if the goal this year was to be bowl eligible, then you have to do what ever is necessary to get to that because a bowl and extra practices is going to go a very long way for the future of  this team then sitting at home in December looking down a brutal 2020 season and us fans sitting there saying " Well at least we got Hickman and Johnson for another year."
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If you'd prefer the Minnesotas, Iowas, and Wisconsins to stop mauling us, then yes we need to redshirt most freshmen.

 
cheekygeek said:
I don’t know quite how to say this, but my biggest concern is our head coach’s detachment from the defense. He delegates and there seems to be no accountability other than “we’ve got to do a better job as coaches” (and players and equipment managers). His curt “I don’t call the defense” answer sticks in my craw like a dry, unbuttered biscuit. I feel like Frost is an OC and not a HC and that is costing the team in multiple ways. I also am starting to feel like his evaluation of some of his assistant coaches is colored by UCF’s magical undefeated season, which made him believe he had the greatest assistant coaches in the world. They are not translating well to the BigTen so far and, while I can see some playmakers wanting to play in Frost’s offense, I see recruiting Blue Chip defenders as a huge problem until we get a defense that isn’t going to showcase embarrassing games and make mediocre teams look like world-beaters.
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When talking to the media he's not going to come out and throw Chinander under the bus...

 
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TheSker said:
If you'd prefer the Minnesotas, Iowas, and Wisconsins to stop mauling us, then yes we need to redshirt most freshmen.
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So in order to compete with those 3, we need to just not play our talent in hopes they can develop without any real game experience, without any additional  practices via a bowl, without bringing in top talent to compete with them because we are going on a third losing season in a row and top talent doesn't flock to that? That sounds like fear of failure to me. 

So not playing freshman is the way to go. I wish there was an example of a team that started their freshman in the Big 10, took their lumps for a season or two , and in year 3 became a top 10 team......

 
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Ziebol said:
So in order to compete with those 3, we need to just not play our talent in hopes they can develop without any real game experience, without any additional  practices via a bowl, without bringing in top talent to compete with them because we are going on a third losing season in a row and top talent doesn't flock to that? That sounds like fear of failure to me. 

So not playing freshman is the way to go. I wish there was an example of a team that started their freshman in the Big 10, took their lumps that year, and in the following year became a top 10 team......
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I'm glad our coaching staff is looking out further than one year.

Minnesota can build their team however they think is best.

Frost has a blueprint that worked for a long time.

And just like Minnesota did, we're taking lumps right now.  If Minnesota has one or two bad classes, it won't be sustainable.

 
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BlitzFirst said:
You're saying you know better than an entire team of coaches how to handle Hickman?  And you're saying you know better than all the coaches who see him blocking and route running that he's better than everything we got at all facets of WR position?

I think you are creating a narrative based on one comment from Frost.  I still think you should stop.
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Where did I say I know better than the entire team of coaches in that entire quote you chose? 

 
BlitzFirst said:
Where did you NOT?
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Umm in the entire quote you selected? Not one time I have stated I know more than the coaches. I can't teach you reading and comprehension, so here is a clip from Tommy Boy for you to learn from. 




 
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Frost's first class was 2019 (technically, since 2018 class he got here in December). Until those kids have 3-4 years I don't see why expectations would be that high. I get we should have won 6 games last year and 6+ this year, but people that were saying 9 and 10 I just don't get that. We all see that kids that he inherited. Not that many good ones 

 
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BlitzFirst said:
You are questioning coaches decisions based on a single comment.  You continue to insist you are correct with a limited data set...no comparative data, nothing.

You're complaining about existing players and giving small data sets of examples and generalizing their entire playing time with it.

And in doing all of these things, you are insisting you know more than coaches who see the WR every day while trashing the players we have (GREAT look btw...trashing kids is really fantastic).  All based on "Hickman is our best perimeter blocker" comment from Frost.
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So I am insisting I know more than the coaches now? Two posts ago you said I said I know more than the coaches. Where am I trashing these kids also? If you think what I said is considered "trashing" I would advise you to never go on Reddit, twitter, or even 247. Is a player above criticism if they are under performing just because they have an N on their helmet? Those two are not good, that is a fact. If you are happy with their performance, than you are happy with the teams results. It is also not small data sets of examples when it has been the whole season, and in Williams case two seasons. Furthermore, your whole counterargument for Noa is based off one comment from Frost as well. In September. Mine was taken from the coach on Monday. Now I am going to put you on ignore because I am tired of you attempting to put words in my mouth because you don't like the side of my argument.

 
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