Dumb it down: Suh still the best tackle, stupid
March 2, 2010
By Gregg Doyel
CBSSports.com National Columnisthttp://www.cbssports.com/columns/writers/doyel
Dumb is the way to do this, so I'll be dumb. Other people, the experts, can intellectualize the draft argument between Nebraska's Ndamukong Suh and Oklahoma's Gerald McCoy by analyzing their pad level or their hand-punch or their friggin' base.
Smarter football people than you and I have decided that McCoy is the way to go for the St. Louis Rams or -- if the Rams screw up and pick brittle quarterback Sam Bradford first overall -- for the Detroit Lions at No. 2. I'm talking giants in the field of player prognostication. Mike Mayock of NFL.com rates McCoy ahead of Suh. So does Todd McShay of ESPN.com. Look, I'm not singling out competing websites. I'm singling out anybody that would put the words "Gerald McCoy" ahead of the words "Ndamukong Suh." My CBSSports.com colleague Chad Reuter has McCoy ahead of Suh in his mock draft. So does noted NFL writer Don Banks of CBSSports.com partner site SI.com.
Smart guys, that foursome, and they're not just smart. They're informed. If they're leaning toward McCoy over Suh, it's because the people they talk to -- NFL coaches and scouts -- are leaning toward McCoy over Suh. It's a vortex of football smart, and that vortex is starting to slurp Gerald McCoy toward the No. 1 overall pick.
But he's not Ndamukong Suh. Maybe this is where I get a little bit mean to McCoy, but here goes: McCoy isn't close to Ndamukong Suh.
Pay attention, because I'm about to win this argument in 30 words or less.
In three years at Oklahoma, when McCoy started 38 games, he had 83 tackles and 14½ sacks.
Suh? He had 82 tackles and 12 sacks.
In 2009.
I win. Suh wins. That awful noise you hear? It's not McShay trying to defend his ranking of McCoy over Suh. It's the fat lady, singing. Because this party's over.
Now, there is an explanation floating around for the discrepancy in production between McCoy and Suh, whose senior season more than doubled McCoy's 2009 output of 34 tackles and six sacks. The explanation goes like this: McCoy had better defensive talent around him, so there were fewer tackles and sacks for him to achieve. That's an interesting explanation given that it could just as easily work the opposite way: If Suh had so little talent around him, shouldn't teams have been able to devote more blockers to him than they could to McCoy? Keep in mind the obvious fact that Suh and McCoy played in the same conference, so they put up their numbers against many of the same teams. Against Texas, for example, McCoy had three tackles and one sack. That's a nice game. In his game against Texas, Suh had 12 tackles and 4½ sacks. Nothing nice about that -- he tossed around Texas quarterback Colt McCoy like a discus.
Against Kansas State, Suh had nine tackles and one sack. How did McCoy do against Kansas State? One tackle. No sacks.
So this is where I dismiss that plausible explanation from earlier, that McCoy didn't match Suh's production because he had too many great players around him. I'm going for an even more plausible explanation: McCoy didn't match Suh's production because he's not as good.
Still, McCoy is gaining traction as the best available defensive tackle. What's happening here is what typically happens before the NFL Draft. With so much downtime between the bowls and the draft, analysts scrutinize every little thing about the best prospects. The better the prospect, the more scrutiny.
It happened most insultingly in 1998, when Peyton Manning was finishing up his fourth season at Tennessee with the production and pedigree of the best quarterback prospect in years. Dumb was the way to do that -- Manning was, literally, a no-brainer -- but with all that downtime, the experts got to thinking about it, and they overthought the position to the point where lots of people went into the draft wondering if maybe Manning wasn't as good as some strong-armed dude out of Washington State named Ryan Leaf. The Colts didn't fall for it, drafting Manning.
Not to say that McCoy is another Ryan Leaf. The bust factor for a defensive tackle is high -- Glenn Dorsey (No. 5 overall in 2008) looks to be stumbling into the same footsteps of DeWayne Robertson (No. 4, 2003), Ryan Sims (No. 6, 2002), Gerard Warren (No. 3, 2001) and the big daddy of them all, Dan Wilkinson (No. 1 overall, 1994) -- but I'm not saying McCoy is next in that line.
I'm just saying this: When Ndamukong Suh was finished at Nebraska, he was universally hailed as the best defensive tackle in college football in years, maybe decades. Maybe ever.
Now, all of a sudden, he's not even the best defensive tackle in his class? That's stupid.
Gregg Doyel's message to NFL prognosticators on Suh vs. McCoy
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hskrfan4life
Heisman Trophy Winner
Really good article :thumbs
Fuzzy
All-Conference
Gotta love the 30 seconds to win the argument.
Suh went from a 4 star recruit from Portland, OR that was injury prone and on a Defensive that was horrible. To a Heisman finalist, in just 2 years, as a DT. Every Husker fan knows, if Bo Pelini and the coaching staff got to this kid two years earlier, he definitely would have won the Heisman within the 4 years (or 3 years).
Here is my feeling on Rams taking a QB as the first pick. How many 1st pick QB have been picked in the past 5 drafts? Have anyone of them worked for the team (Detroit Lions)? Not saying that if Rams take a QB as a 1st pick, he isn't going to working out for them. But i just don't see a problem with them taking a QB in the 2nd round. Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow, Tony Pike, Zac Robinson, Danny LeFlevour, they seem like fine choices to take as a rookie QB to build a franchise around.
Suh went from a 4 star recruit from Portland, OR that was injury prone and on a Defensive that was horrible. To a Heisman finalist, in just 2 years, as a DT. Every Husker fan knows, if Bo Pelini and the coaching staff got to this kid two years earlier, he definitely would have won the Heisman within the 4 years (or 3 years).
Here is my feeling on Rams taking a QB as the first pick. How many 1st pick QB have been picked in the past 5 drafts? Have anyone of them worked for the team (Detroit Lions)? Not saying that if Rams take a QB as a 1st pick, he isn't going to working out for them. But i just don't see a problem with them taking a QB in the 2nd round. Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow, Tony Pike, Zac Robinson, Danny LeFlevour, they seem like fine choices to take as a rookie QB to build a franchise around.
HUSKER 37
All-American
Don't know much about Glenn Dorsey..except that he was a pupil of Bo.
Is there a chance that his performance as leaning toward being a draft bust cloud these guys feelings for Suh?
Not to blaspheme here, but...Suh seems to have the work ethic to overcome even what's his name's Defense, but could the "experts" also be seeing flaws in Carl/Bo's tutelage?
Is there a chance that his performance as leaning toward being a draft bust cloud these guys feelings for Suh?
Not to blaspheme here, but...Suh seems to have the work ethic to overcome even what's his name's Defense, but could the "experts" also be seeing flaws in Carl/Bo's tutelage?
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zoogs
Assistant Coach
Maybe it's that I'm a Nebraska fan, but I just get a different vibe about Suh. He's not just some ultra talent that's got all the tools. I feel it's cliche, but his maturity and the kind of head that he's got on those shoulders can't be emphasized enough. You don't see that with guys like Gerald or Dorsey or a lot of the other high profile top guys. Doesn't mean they don't make it or that Suh will - just that Suh's got that rare vibe.
Often the "good kids" you hear about like Myron Rolle, Tim Tebow, or Gilyard from Cincinnati, aren't 1st round projections, much less Top 3. Suh has just got it all. Physical freak, high caliber talent, jaw-dropping production, and an incredible level of maturity and work ethic. I just really hope he lands somewhere good.
Another Top 3 guy this year that comes close to that, I think, is Sam Bradford. I can see why the Rams would want to pick him first. Sure, Suh's got superstar all over him - but you NEED a QB, and Bradford has got pretty darn good star potential too. There's some injury risk, but what a solid guy with the talent to match. If I were the Rams, I'd take Bradford. Team priorities.
Often the "good kids" you hear about like Myron Rolle, Tim Tebow, or Gilyard from Cincinnati, aren't 1st round projections, much less Top 3. Suh has just got it all. Physical freak, high caliber talent, jaw-dropping production, and an incredible level of maturity and work ethic. I just really hope he lands somewhere good.
Another Top 3 guy this year that comes close to that, I think, is Sam Bradford. I can see why the Rams would want to pick him first. Sure, Suh's got superstar all over him - but you NEED a QB, and Bradford has got pretty darn good star potential too. There's some injury risk, but what a solid guy with the talent to match. If I were the Rams, I'd take Bradford. Team priorities.
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kansas husker
All-Conference
Great article it says what we all have been saying ever since thice whole Mcouy over SUH thing started.
HuskerTrucker
All-Conference
Good article. McShay is an idiot. Look at what Suh brought Nebraska on the field, Suh WAS the defense at times. And Suh didn't do stupid stuff, and you could count on him not to do it...but he was so dominate that I don't think that officials knew exactly how to deal with him sometimes, therefore he did get some penalties that other players wouldn't have gotten.
BIGREDIOWAN
Mods
Great article, anyone who puts McCoy in front of Suh is a moron IMO. :espnsucks:
Mike Mayock from NFL Network was quick to point on that his impact player of the day was Gerald McCoy on Monday, Rich Eisen jumped on SUH!!!
As Mayock was touting McCoy, Rich Eisen said, "SUH had the better combine though!!! Mayock agreed, somewhat reluctantly though.
They were/are stating that the 23 reps to 32 reps on the bench press showed that McCoy didn't spend enough time in the gym over the last 4 years, not the last 2 months, 4 years.
Funny, I didn't see McCoy at the same number of awards shows... I don't even remember him from the Lott Trophy Award Show. McCoy wasn't even at the final awards show for the top 4 defensive players for 2009.
2009 Player Profiles for the Lott Trophy
Eric Berry Profile
Jerry Hughes Profile
Rolando McClain Profile
Ndamukong Suh Profile
SUH is and will be the better prospect over the next 10 to 15 years.
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huskernumerouno
All-American
Great article, Suh may not get the first pick but his numbers do not lie. His best games were the big games. He will rise to the occasion if a DT is drafted ahead of him. He has the drive to make them wish they would have picked him.
SUH is the best. Biased yes but I truely believe that.
SUH is the best. Biased yes but I truely believe that.
BIGREDIOWAN
Mods
Mayock is an egotistical arrogant jerk who doesn't like to admit when he's wrong. I was watching that at the same time and thinking, "the numbers don't lie dude." Suh didn't have to go to the combine, but he wanted to, evidently, to prove to everyone why he is the #1 pick without a doubt. The statement that McCoy disrupts the passing game more than Suh is absolutely mind boggling to me.
knapplc
International Man of Mystery
Amen. There's no excuse for being a "football expert" and making such a statement. Not only do you have the statistics to back up Suh's dominance, you have game after game after game, and the bigger the stage the better Suh played. On top of all that, you now have the Combine results to show you that Suh is more athletic, more agile and stronger. On top of all of that you have the ridiculous number of awards Suh won, and on top of all of that you have his fourth-place finish in the Heisman AND the fact that he pulled in more votes than any pure defensive player ever.
It's not just some evidence. It's not like it's even open to interpretation. It would be like watching the 1996 Fiesta Bowl then voting Florida #1.
carlfense
Heisman Trophy Winner
Exactly. Suh is across the board better. Nothing like a little invented controversy to sell some subscriptions.
knapplc
International Man of Mystery
BTW - watching McCoy's "highlights" on YouTube, notice how many of his "good plays" he misses the tackle. Astounding...
EDIT - I've finished watching this. Some things to note:
EDIT - I've finished watching this. Some things to note:
- McCoy is consistently blocked one-on-one
- McCoy rarely sheds his block
- McCoy doesn't even make the stop in most of these highlights
- McCoy appears not much faster than most O Linemen
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