How good can we be with TM under center next year?

[kchusker_chris]

After 26ish starts, Taylor's final game of the season showed us he is no better today at these things than he was 26 games ago.

:huh:

Taylor was the most solid player on our team in that game vs. SC.....

feet solidly planted in the turf....

 

[bshirt]

I know this will probably open a whole 'nother can of worms...

With us not landing Fuller I am bummed. I had hoped that getting him to commit would've lit a fire under T-marts a$$ even more than before. If he'd have committed and shown the talent we've seen that maybe he could've posed a "threat" to T-mart and hopefully some healthy competition would've spurred him on some....

I'm not so sure competition will make a bit of difference. My guess is Taylor practices really well, he's likely solid in the film room, and has a good understanding of the offense. He's clearly the best guy Sunday-Friday (and most Saturdays) and he works really hard to be the best. I just don't feel any amount of competition will allow him to gain better pocket awareness, or become a better scrambler, or make better reads/decisions during the game. Sometimes you just have it, or your don't. After 26ish starts, Taylor's final game of the season showed us he is no better today at these things than he was 26 games ago.

His improved in plenty of other areas. He doesn't fumble nearly as frequently, he's passing the ball a little better, he's checking down to his RB, running the option better, the playbook has opened up for him....but, he still lacks considerably in some key areas. And unfortunately it's areas where "football instinct" are the drivers - and that's just not something you can coach into a player. It's like David...Bo always attributed so much of his play to just solid football insticts. They guy just had it. He knew where the ball was going. It wasn't coaching - I mean he was setting Husker records months after arriving on campus.

Maybe another offseason and a few more starts under the new offense and it'll click. But after 26 starts he clearly doesn't have it. Will it take another 20 to get it? Can we afford that wait? Can Bo? Or is it better to get going on the next guy? I think Bo chose to get going on the next guy w/ Taylor over Lee in 2010. Will he do it again?

Total horsesh*t but there's no swaying a hardcore hater.

 

[robsker]

I know this will probably open a whole 'nother can of worms...

With us not landing Fuller I am bummed. I had hoped that getting him to commit would've lit a fire under T-marts a$$ even more than before. If he'd have committed and shown the talent we've seen that maybe he could've posed a "threat" to T-mart and hopefully some healthy competition would've spurred him on some....

I'm not so sure competition will make a bit of difference. My guess is Taylor practices really well, he's likely solid in the film room, and has a good understanding of the offense. He's clearly the best guy Sunday-Friday (and most Saturdays) and he works really hard to be the best. I just don't feel any amount of competition will allow him to gain better pocket awareness, or become a better scrambler, or make better reads/decisions during the game. Sometimes you just have it, or your don't. After 26ish starts, Taylor's final game of the season showed us he is no better today at these things than he was 26 games ago.

His improved in plenty of other areas. He doesn't fumble nearly as frequently, he's passing the ball a little better, he's checking down to his RB, running the option better, the playbook has opened up for him....but, he still lacks considerably in some key areas. And unfortunately it's areas where "football instinct" are the drivers - and that's just not something you can coach into a player. It's like David...Bo always attributed so much of his play to just solid football insticts. They guy just had it. He knew where the ball was going. It wasn't coaching - I mean he was setting Husker records months after arriving on campus.

Maybe another offseason and a few more starts under the new offense and it'll click. But after 26 starts he clearly doesn't have it. Will it take another 20 to get it? Can we afford that wait? Can Bo? Or is it better to get going on the next guy? I think Bo chose to get going on the next guy w/ Taylor over Lee in 2010. Will he do it again?

Total horsesh*t but there's no swaying a hardcore hater.

Why total...?

HuskerChris seems to have been very balanced and reasonable in his assessment --- TM has improved in some areas and not at all in other areas. He posits that TM does not have "it" --- that is not an unreasonable assessment.

Now... I do not think that TM and his performance (or lack thereof) or his potential for improvement (or lack thereof) will be overly a determining factor. It will play a role, sure. But really the more salient problems are with coaching, motivating the players, discipline and focus (or lack thereof), bad fundamentals and bad turnover margin --- and these problems are manifest at many positions and will more determine where NU can go (or not go) in the immediate future.

Again... it is not like NU is terrible or anything. We are a solid team with upper-mid conference performance the last few years --- and likely next year as well. No real threat to win the conference or the Legend's division... but also not a push- over either. If NU replaced TM with a better QB (or somehow TM got a level or two better) it will not change much regarding conference standing --- w/o getting the team to play hard, motivated, fundamental football, and still getting out-coached in terms of half-time adjustments or w/o NU getting better disciplne in knowing schemes, catching passes, hanging on to the football, causing turnovers, etc --- well the improvement at QB will make little difference --- positionally.

NU is well behind Wisconsin, Michigan, and soon (I'd think) also behind OSU. TM will not change that overly one way or another. We are not behind these programs because of QB play (though that does contribute some) --- we are there because of the confluence of many problems that, cumulatively, limit where NU is (or will be) --- most, again, come back to coaching.

 

[bshirt]

I know this will probably open a whole 'nother can of worms...

With us not landing Fuller I am bummed. I had hoped that getting him to commit would've lit a fire under T-marts a$$ even more than before. If he'd have committed and shown the talent we've seen that maybe he could've posed a "threat" to T-mart and hopefully some healthy competition would've spurred him on some....

I'm not so sure competition will make a bit of difference. My guess is Taylor practices really well, he's likely solid in the film room, and has a good understanding of the offense. He's clearly the best guy Sunday-Friday (and most Saturdays) and he works really hard to be the best. I just don't feel any amount of competition will allow him to gain better pocket awareness, or become a better scrambler, or make better reads/decisions during the game. Sometimes you just have it, or your don't. After 26ish starts, Taylor's final game of the season showed us he is no better today at these things than he was 26 games ago.

His improved in plenty of other areas. He doesn't fumble nearly as frequently, he's passing the ball a little better, he's checking down to his RB, running the option better, the playbook has opened up for him....but, he still lacks considerably in some key areas. And unfortunately it's areas where "football instinct" are the drivers - and that's just not something you can coach into a player. It's like David...Bo always attributed so much of his play to just solid football insticts. They guy just had it. He knew where the ball was going. It wasn't coaching - I mean he was setting Husker records months after arriving on campus.

Maybe another offseason and a few more starts under the new offense and it'll click. But after 26 starts he clearly doesn't have it. Will it take another 20 to get it? Can we afford that wait? Can Bo? Or is it better to get going on the next guy? I think Bo chose to get going on the next guy w/ Taylor over Lee in 2010. Will he do it again?

Total horsesh*t but there's no swaying a hardcore hater.

Why total...?

HuskerChris seems to have been very balanced and reasonable in his assessment --- TM has improved in some areas and not at all in other areas. He posits that TM does not have "it" --- that is not an unreasonable assessment.

Now... I do not think that TM and his performance (or lack thereof) or his potential for improvement (or lack thereof) will be overly a determining factor. It will play a role, sure. But really the more salient problems are with coaching, motivating the players, discipline and focus (or lack thereof), bad fundamentals and bad turnover margin --- and these problems are manifest at many positions and will more determine where NU can go (or not go) in the immediate future.

Again... it is not like NU is terrible or anything. We are a solid team with upper-mid conference performance the last few years --- and likely next year as well. No real threat to win the conference or the Legend's division... but also not a push- over either. If NU replaced TM with a better QB (or somehow TM got a level or two better) it will not change much regarding conference standing --- w/o getting the team to play hard, motivated, fundamental football, and still getting out-coached in terms of half-time adjustments or w/o NU getting better disciplne in knowing schemes, catching passes, hanging on to the football, causing turnovers, etc --- well the improvement at QB will make little difference --- positionally.

NU is well behind Wisconsin, Michigan, and soon (I'd think) also behind OSU. TM will not change that overly one way or another. We are not behind these programs because of QB play (though that does contribute some) --- we are there because of the confluence of many problems that, cumulatively, limit where NU is (or will be) --- most, again, come back to coaching.

Balanced and reasonable? Riiiiiight.

Fist of all, how does Chris or you know that he doesn't make reads or decisions better than 26 games ago? You don't. It's just your armchair speculation and nothing more. "Nothing" more.

Secondly, how do you know he doesn't have "it" (whatever the hell that means...)? Again, just an opinion.

Thirdly, it's again just your armchair "opinion" he doesn't have adequate "instincts". I'd say having an Oline that blocks somebody and some wrs who could catch the ball make a HUGE difference in the perceived ultra-vague "instinct" category.

Anyways, maybe you'll luck out and he'll get benched and never play again. Then you'll see that until our Oline can get a somewhat consistent push & our wrs learn to catch the ball it almost certainly won't make a diddly squat of difference.

Well, please forgive me robsker for coming across so harshly. As a Husker fan, you're my brother. But to me, it's glaringly obvious our offense has far, far bigger problems than our qb. Of course, you two and many others disagree.

I think the only solution is.....we need to win!

 

[kchusker_chris]

I know this will probably open a whole 'nother can of worms...

With us not landing Fuller I am bummed. I had hoped that getting him to commit would've lit a fire under T-marts a$$ even more than before. If he'd have committed and shown the talent we've seen that maybe he could've posed a "threat" to T-mart and hopefully some healthy competition would've spurred him on some....

I'm not so sure competition will make a bit of difference. My guess is Taylor practices really well, he's likely solid in the film room, and has a good understanding of the offense. He's clearly the best guy Sunday-Friday (and most Saturdays) and he works really hard to be the best. I just don't feel any amount of competition will allow him to gain better pocket awareness, or become a better scrambler, or make better reads/decisions during the game. Sometimes you just have it, or your don't. After 26ish starts, Taylor's final game of the season showed us he is no better today at these things than he was 26 games ago.

His improved in plenty of other areas. He doesn't fumble nearly as frequently, he's passing the ball a little better, he's checking down to his RB, running the option better, the playbook has opened up for him....but, he still lacks considerably in some key areas. And unfortunately it's areas where "football instinct" are the drivers - and that's just not something you can coach into a player. It's like David...Bo always attributed so much of his play to just solid football insticts. They guy just had it. He knew where the ball was going. It wasn't coaching - I mean he was setting Husker records months after arriving on campus.

Maybe another offseason and a few more starts under the new offense and it'll click. But after 26 starts he clearly doesn't have it. Will it take another 20 to get it? Can we afford that wait? Can Bo? Or is it better to get going on the next guy? I think Bo chose to get going on the next guy w/ Taylor over Lee in 2010. Will he do it again?

Total horsesh*t but there's no swaying a hardcore hater.

That was a lucid, intelligent, and well thought out response. Well done sir. :worship

 

[kchusker_chris]

Well, please forgive me robsker for coming across so harshly. As a Husker fan, you're my brother. But to me, it's glaringly obvious our offense has far, far bigger problems than our qb. Of course, you two and many others disagree.

But this is a thread about the QB...do you expect us to discuss something different?

 

[bshirt]

Well, please forgive me robsker for coming across so harshly. As a Husker fan, you're my brother. But to me, it's glaringly obvious our offense has far, far bigger problems than our qb. Of course, you two and many others disagree.

But this is a thread about the QB...do you expect us to discuss something different?

No. This thread is about "How good can we be with TM under center next year?".

I'm saying far, FAR bigger variables than Tmart's play will show how much better we'll be. That is all.

 

[The Dude]

Well, please forgive me robsker for coming across so harshly. As a Husker fan, you're my brother. But to me, it's glaringly obvious our offense has far, far bigger problems than our qb. Of course, you two and many others disagree.

But this is a thread about the QB...do you expect us to discuss something different?

That's the main problem with the thread, it's a thread about how good the team can be with TM under center. It can be really good team even if TM plays like crap, or it can be a really bad team even if TM plays great.

 

[knapplc]

Well, please forgive me robsker for coming across so harshly. As a Husker fan, you're my brother. But to me, it's glaringly obvious our offense has far, far bigger problems than our qb. Of course, you two and many others disagree.

But this is a thread about the QB...do you expect us to discuss something different?

I believe what bshirt is pointing out is not that this is a thread about the QB, but the glaring lack of threads about the offensive line. Or the tight ends. Or the wide receivers. Or the defensive line. Or the linebackers. Or the secondary. Or the special teams coverage. Or the coaching decisions.

As I pointed out earlier:

This thread, and conversation, is so myopic. It's shameful that the collective understanding of the game being displayed here boils down to "We lost games, let's change quarterbacks."

The issue isn't that this thread is about quarterbacks, or that the (real) flaws of our current quarterback are being discussed. It's that that's all that's being discussed. And often, the quarterback was the least of our worries this year.

 

[robsker]

I know this will probably open a whole 'nother can of worms...

With us not landing Fuller I am bummed. I had hoped that getting him to commit would've lit a fire under T-marts a$$ even more than before. If he'd have committed and shown the talent we've seen that maybe he could've posed a "threat" to T-mart and hopefully some healthy competition would've spurred him on some....

I'm not so sure competition will make a bit of difference. My guess is Taylor practices really well, he's likely solid in the film room, and has a good understanding of the offense. He's clearly the best guy Sunday-Friday (and most Saturdays) and he works really hard to be the best. I just don't feel any amount of competition will allow him to gain better pocket awareness, or become a better scrambler, or make better reads/decisions during the game. Sometimes you just have it, or your don't. After 26ish starts, Taylor's final game of the season showed us he is no better today at these things than he was 26 games ago.

His improved in plenty of other areas. He doesn't fumble nearly as frequently, he's passing the ball a little better, he's checking down to his RB, running the option better, the playbook has opened up for him....but, he still lacks considerably in some key areas. And unfortunately it's areas where "football instinct" are the drivers - and that's just not something you can coach into a player. It's like David...Bo always attributed so much of his play to just solid football insticts. They guy just had it. He knew where the ball was going. It wasn't coaching - I mean he was setting Husker records months after arriving on campus.

Maybe another offseason and a few more starts under the new offense and it'll click. But after 26 starts he clearly doesn't have it. Will it take another 20 to get it? Can we afford that wait? Can Bo? Or is it better to get going on the next guy? I think Bo chose to get going on the next guy w/ Taylor over Lee in 2010. Will he do it again?

Total horsesh*t but there's no swaying a hardcore hater.

Why total...?

HuskerChris seems to have been very balanced and reasonable in his assessment --- TM has improved in some areas and not at all in other areas. He posits that TM does not have "it" --- that is not an unreasonable assessment.

Now... I do not think that TM and his performance (or lack thereof) or his potential for improvement (or lack thereof) will be overly a determining factor. It will play a role, sure. But really the more salient problems are with coaching, motivating the players, discipline and focus (or lack thereof), bad fundamentals and bad turnover margin --- and these problems are manifest at many positions and will more determine where NU can go (or not go) in the immediate future.

Again... it is not like NU is terrible or anything. We are a solid team with upper-mid conference performance the last few years --- and likely next year as well. No real threat to win the conference or the Legend's division... but also not a push- over either. If NU replaced TM with a better QB (or somehow TM got a level or two better) it will not change much regarding conference standing --- w/o getting the team to play hard, motivated, fundamental football, and still getting out-coached in terms of half-time adjustments or w/o NU getting better disciplne in knowing schemes, catching passes, hanging on to the football, causing turnovers, etc --- well the improvement at QB will make little difference --- positionally.

NU is well behind Wisconsin, Michigan, and soon (I'd think) also behind OSU. TM will not change that overly one way or another. We are not behind these programs because of QB play (though that does contribute some) --- we are there because of the confluence of many problems that, cumulatively, limit where NU is (or will be) --- most, again, come back to coaching.

Balanced and reasonable? Riiiiiight.

Fist of all, how does Chris or you know that he doesn't make reads or decisions better than 26 games ago? You don't. It's just your armchair speculation and nothing more. "Nothing" more.

Secondly, how do you know he doesn't have "it" (whatever the hell that means...)? Again, just an opinion.

Thirdly, it's again just your armchair "opinion" he doesn't have adequate "instincts". I'd say having an Oline that blocks somebody and some wrs who could catch the ball make a HUGE difference in the perceived ultra-vague "instinct" category.

Anyways, maybe you'll luck out and he'll get benched and never play again. Then you'll see that until our Oline can get a somewhat consistent push & our wrs learn to catch the ball it almost certainly won't make a diddly squat of difference.

Well, please forgive me robsker for coming across so harshly. As a Husker fan, you're my brother. But to me, it's glaringly obvious our offense has far, far bigger problems than our qb. Of course, you two and many others disagree.

I think the only solution is.....we need to win!

Actually... my post agrees with you. Read it. it says that TM is not a major factor in our problems... it is one of many problems and I state all the problems that you do (except the OL --- of which you are correct) and then some. I have, essentially, posted this three times and we agree with each other --- TM is not the major problem... and the extent to which he is a problem is not overly a determining factor.

It is, of course, armchair assesment of TM --- whether one contends he is improving or not. I do agree --- in the most general sense --- with kchusker_chris in this... TM has not improved, overall, that much. (one certainly can dissagree with this assesment). Like kchusker_chris, I'd think that if TM is going to improve in the future, the liklihood is he would have shown more improvement to date. Now, I cannot speak for kchusker_chjris in this, but I'd not be surprised if he would agree that TM might improve in the future --- because he might. We just do not have much indication that he will. Maybe we'll be pleas But there is a limit as to what TM may accomplish... this is clear --- nor, is at least the premise I am going with. He has natural limitations in several areas.

But again, the QB play is not the major issue --- it is but one of many.

 

[MLB 51]

Again. It all starts with the O-Line. They dictate what you can and can't do. Team's can and do win championships with less than stellar QB play.

 

[kchusker_chris]

I believe what bshirt is pointing out is not that this is a thread about the QB, but the glaring lack of threads about the offensive line. Or the tight ends. Or the wide receivers. Or the defensive line. Or the linebackers. Or the secondary. Or the special teams coverage. Or the coaching decisions.

Understandable...

Offensive line = Barney. Not really much to discuss there, we know what the problem is .

Tight ends...not to much to discuss I guess. Maybe being misused a little IMO...but I like B. Cotton.

Wide Receivers...I'll use the excuse they were just freshman/sophomores so I'm not too concerned about the drops. Most of these guys were seeing their first playing time this year - it's not like they had a year of starts under their belts already. Kinnie...welll, he was a senior and we know how that works for Neb WRs.

The DL - Back to coaching. We have the tallent. Stein stepped up big time the second half of the season. This idiodic "contain" pass rush with zero blitzing pisses me off though. No DL can look good when they have 1 hand tied behind their back due to scheme.

LB - We'll be fine here I think, not worried.

DB - Can't be much worse.

Special Team Coverage - Sucks every year, maybe with JP out of the picture this will change

Coaching decisions - If JP blitzes more than 5-10% of the time he'll be a success in my eyes. We're suposed to be an aggressive, physical, smashmouth football team yet our DL prances around the pocket like a bunch of fairies spreading dust. Maybe Kaz will fix that. Jury still out on Beck. Wished Pelini had brought in some experience when he had a chance instead of going young again. Worried we'll be outcoached 4-5 times next year.

....ok, pick any of those to call horsesh!t and we can move the thread away from TM.

 

[knapplc]

That pretty much perfectly summarizes the problem with this board at this time. Real, glaring, obvious problems with major components of this team are presented, then summarily dismissed with a few words, one-liners or quips, yet we have an 11-page (and counting) thread agonizing over every detail of the play of one player.

 

[kchusker_chris]

gotta start the discussion somewhere.

 

[Enhance]

It's laughable how one player garner's an 11 page thread, but as knapplc pointed out, every other problem with this team is easily dismissed or joked about.

How somebody can get in here and say we need a new quarterback, but lackadaisically dismiss our offensive line issues as a "barney" problem, comes off as being completely detached from the reality of the situation.