How good can we be with TM under center next year?

kchusker_chris said:
gotta start the discussion somewhere.
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Let's say that Martinez loses the starting gig to Carnes next year. This conversation won't end. It'll just switch to Carnes, with all the focus on every mistake he makes, every missed read, every wide open receiver he didn't hit, etc. The QB is low-hanging fruit.

I wish I knew more about the nuts and bolts of football. Really, my knowledge is pretty superficial, like most folks on the board. There are very few real X's and O's guys here. Honestly, the vast majority of football fans know very little beyond the basics of the game.

Maybe we should do our own version of Football 202 right here on HuskerBoard.

 
Enhance89 said:
It's laughable how one player garner's an 11 page thread, but as knapplc pointed out, every other problem with this team is easily dismissed or joked about.

How somebody can get in here and say we need a new quarterback, but lackadaisically dismiss our offensive line issues as a "barney" problem, comes off as being completely detached from the reality of the situation.
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well school me on the issue then. i see the common denominator as barney. you see something else. don't bash the poster - educate him. i'll be waiting...

 
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kchusker_chris said:
Enhance89 said:
It's laughable how one player garner's an 11 page thread, but as knapplc pointed out, every other problem with this team is easily dismissed or joked about.

How somebody can get in here and say we need a new quarterback, but lackadaisically dismiss our offensive line issues as a "barney" problem, comes off as being completely detached from the reality of the situation.
Click to expand...
well school me on the issue then. i see the common denominator as barney. you see something else. don't bash the poster - educate him. i'll be waiting...
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I didn't mean to bash. Although you did say it, you're not the first.

Actually, I tend to agree with the 'barney is the problem' line of thinking. I've been one of the more outwardly negative posters towards Cotton on this board. I was merely pointing out the ridiculousness of an 11 page Martinez thread, but a complete lack of an offensive line thread on the front page. While I think Cotton's coaching is a problem, I don't think it can just be easily dismissed like that. It deserves more discussion/criticism.

 
Enhance89 said:
kchusker_chris said:
Enhance89 said:
It's laughable how one player garner's an 11 page thread, but as knapplc pointed out, every other problem with this team is easily dismissed or joked about.

How somebody can get in here and say we need a new quarterback, but lackadaisically dismiss our offensive line issues as a "barney" problem, comes off as being completely detached from the reality of the situation.
Click to expand...
well school me on the issue then. i see the common denominator as barney. you see something else. don't bash the poster - educate him. i'll be waiting...
Click to expand...
I didn't mean to bash. Although you did say it, you're not the first.

Actually, I tend to agree with the 'barney is the problem' line of thinking. I've been one of the more outwardly negative posters towards Cotton on this board. I was merely pointing out the ridiculousness of an 11 page Martinez thread, but a complete lack of an offensive line thread on the front page. While I think Cotton's coaching is a problem, I don't think it can just be easily dismissed like that. It deserves more discussion/criticism.
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Understandable. I just can't get into discussing the OL much - because like Knapp said I don't know the intricacies of it. It's much easier to evaluate the QB (or really any other position on the field). I also don't see the OL as a tallent issue. If it was guard, or center, or a tackle...then we could discuss it more. It seems like we have a number of guys more than capable of stepping up though. You saw it with Long this year. Or Choi...yet at the end of the day A-Rod is still getting man-handled while Choi is riding pine. If there is one thing I know about an OL - it's that the 5 guys need to gel. They need to work as a unit. Constantly messing w/ that unity throughout the year, maybe because one guy practices harder than the other hurts the unit. Maybe that's why A-Rod was starting. Who knows...really have no idea, just know that what we are doing isn't working...and since it doesn't seem to be a tallent issue I have to fall back on coaching.

 
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i think if you would all take the time to go back through 11 pages of discussion, criticism, you would find more than TM's skills or lack there of discussed...

i know i have said it goes much deeper than TM, but his sacks, many fumbles and sitting in the pocket taking the sack is hard to overlook....

 
Hunter94 said:
i think if you would all take the time to go back through 11 pages of discussion, criticism, you would find more than TM's skills or lack there of discussed...

i know i have said it goes much deeper than TM, but his sacks, many fumbles and sitting in the pocket taking the sack is hard to overlook....
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Having read through all 11 pages of this thread as it unfolded, I would agree with your first sentence. But, as with your second sentence, those observations always came with the caveat ofMartinez isn't getting it done (paraphrasing). So the criticism of the thread has legs.

 
By the way - I mentioned Taylor was at the VB banquet the other night. Took some time to go over and talk to him after the banquet when his other half was otherwise occupied. Did the same last year when Joey Ganz was there with another player. Like Ganzy, Taylor was more than personable. That persona he puts on at pressers isn't what I've ever seen from him in person. He's just a 20-ish year old guy, and (at least when I've talked to him) shyly humble. We chatted for a good five minutes, at the end of which we shook hands and did the "Nice to meet you" thing, and I said "I'm Lance," and he said, "I'm Taylor." To which I replied, "Yeah.... we know" and everybody laughed. It's like he figured we didn't know his name or something. Charming and down-to-earth, not the bad guy he gets painted as around here too often.

Also, I'll my wife is sleeping in the shed for the next month because she refused to take a picture of me and Taylor. Not that I really need a picture, but why not?

 
I don't think him taking sacks is really a problem, he only got sacked 21 times which is pretty average and sack yardage was for only 99 yards so this certainly wasn't a big problem. I think he did a pretty good job of limiting his bad plays this year (except for Wisconsin of course). If Taylor keeps putting up similar numbers to the previous 2 years and has no advancement whatsoever he is still going to own the record books at Nebraska, if there is any problem it is not T-Magic.

 
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Hunter94 said:
i think if you would all take the time to go back through 11 pages of discussion, criticism, you would find more than TM's skills or lack there of discussed...

i know i have said it goes much deeper than TM, but his sacks, many fumbles and sitting in the pocket taking the sack is hard to overlook....
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You're right - those other things are tough to overlook; however, it is extremely difficult for me to criticize Martinez for those things when there are so many other problems around him. This is the ultimate point I'm trying to make people realize, as are many others that have been so wrongly clumped into the 'riding Martinez' jock' group.

That isn't to say Martinez would be the greatest quarterback in the world if we had better play around him. But, because we don't have that better play around him, it's difficult to criticize him. There are things Martinez does he needs to get better at, but I would bet an entire month's paycheck (college student-lol) that this team would be significantly better with Martinez at quarterback and more solid play at the other positions.

 
Hunter94 said:
i think if you would all take the time to go back through 11 pages of discussion, criticism, you would find more than TM's skills or lack there of discussed...

i know i have said it goes much deeper than TM, but his sacks, many fumbles and sitting in the pocket taking the sack is hard to overlook....
Click to expand...
I thought we already talked about his fumbles...I seem to remember dismissing that as you pulling at straws in the air that don't even exist.

I said the same thing to start this page and I'll repeat it now: stats do not tell the entire story. So many components go into one stat that unless we look at the film of each and every play that wound up being a statistic, we aren't going to be too informed as to what the problem is and how that problem can be fixed.

Here's an example: Incompletions.

Incompletions can be the product of multiple plays:

1) The QB makes a bad pass and the ball winds up behind, short of, over the head of, or in front of the WR. Stat book is going to read 0/1

2) The QB makes an acceptable pass [one where the receiver has a reasonable ability to catch the ball] but the WR drops it. Stat book is still going to read 0/1

3) The DE or DT tips the ball at the line of scrimmage and the ball falls to the turf. Stat book will read 0/1

4) The LB knocks the ball down. Stat book will, you guessed it, read 0/1

5) The CB or FS or SS tips the ball away from the WR. Stat book again reads 0/1

Here's one that seems to be ignored:

6) The offensive line provides absolutely no pocket for the QB and as a result he has to throw the ball away. Stat book reads 0/1.

Stats don't tell the whole story, they merely summarize a game or season. Want to get the whole story? Spend time watching the film of each on of those statistics.

 
knapplc said:
kchusker_chris said:
gotta start the discussion somewhere.
Click to expand...
Let's say that Martinez loses the starting gig to Carnes next year. This conversation won't end. It'll just switch to Carnes, with all the focus on every mistake he makes, every missed read, every wide open receiver he didn't hit, etc. The QB is low-hanging fruit.

I wish I knew more about the nuts and bolts of football. Really, my knowledge is pretty superficial, like most folks on the board. There are very few real X's and O's guys here. Honestly, the vast majority of football fans know very little beyond the basics of the game.

Maybe we should do our own version of Football 202 right here on HuskerBoard.
Click to expand...
Not a bad idea at all! I'm in the same boat with just a superficial understanding of the game. Understanding the real nuances of cfb would be terrific.

I also think It would also be BIG, big asset in analyzing our play is if we knew precisely what the playcall was. Especially defensively. So many things happen in every play where some actions are obvious but many are not. The haters keep claiming Tmart can't read defenses but some posters I fully respect say the opposite. Or at least relative to our 2nd string qb (whom the haters claim has the invincible "it" factor). What I would give for a full game breakdown from the coaches. Oh boy....

So typical the usual crowd always pins everything on the easy target. Something goes wrong? Blame the qb. When forced to address other major issues like Oline-play, blame Barney. Forget that our run production was wayyyyyyy down this year even with the additions of coaches Garrison & Stai. Always keep things as simple as possible and then immediately return to dissing our qb. Clockwork.

Again, I think that's a great idea knapplc. Who really understands the game, has a very good handle on what schemes we call and would be willing to teach us sluggards?

 
I can't stand this bullsh#t how just because you question a guys abilities you are supposedly questioning him personally. I can't remember a single time where someone has come out on this site and made a personal attack on Taylor. (not saying it hasn't happened, but it sure isn't very often, and is probably only one or two people.) Talking about his talent as a QB, or lack thereof, has nothing to do with how good of a kid he is. I could have a conversation with Taylor the same way as any other person would interact with him. He probably wouldn't want to do that if he knew that I would truly like to see him unseated at QB, but still, that's not a personal attack on him. Trying to spin it any other way is plain BS. I'm sure Taylor is a great kid. Seems a bit quiet, and behind the scenes. He has a family, friends, and a life just like the rest of us. He just happens to be the Quarterback at the University of Nebraska which makes his every move a bit more analyzed than others. His every move dealing with football for me though. His leadership, and his play on the field, the rest of his life is his life and I hope he lives it to the fullest and enjoys it. I'm sure there are a lot of people proud of him. I'm proud of any kid that has the guts to go out there in front of the world and play QB. Go in the back yard and throw the football 20 times and I bet you don't make a perfect pass every time. This guy goes out and tries it a few hundred times in a season in front of an immeasurable audience. I appreciate his effort, and simply believe we would be better off as a team making a switch. I have listed all of the reasons I believe that, and most of them come down to the fundamentals of QB. Most of it is either mental, or footwork. That's it. Good luck to the young man, I hope he does well with everything he does, it just doesn't seem like being the Nebraska QB is working out the best for him.

 
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