Is Frazier in the top 2???

Undoubtedly it will not be a Nebraskan, but even still, that's far too long for this thing to drag out. What a waste of time!

 
knapplc said:
Cy the Cyclone said:
Troy Davis > Tommy Frazier

Led the nation in rushing in 1995 and '96. ... 2,185 rushing yards in 1996 is third on the all-time list. ... 2,010 rushing yards in 1995. ... 4,195 rushing yards from 1995-96 is the best two-year total in NCAA history. ... Heisman Trophy runner-up in 1996. ... Two-time consensus All-American. ... Holds nearly every ISU school rushing record. On Sept. 28, 1996 against Missouri, Davis rushed for a school-record 378 yards on 41 carries.

Considering he played on a couple of the crummiest teams in Big 12 history and that the criminal homer losers on the Heisman selection committee picked Danny freaking Wuerffel (????) over him in 96...the guy deserves to be #1.
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Uh... whatever. Troy Davis was good, I'll give you that. But he couldn't hold Tommie Frazier's cleats, Cy. No way.

There isn't anyone outside of ISU who would agree with your assessment.
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*sigh* I know....but he's the best I could come up with

 
Cy the Cyclone said:
Troy Davis > Tommy Frazier

Led the nation in rushing in 1995 and '96. ... 2,185 rushing yards in 1996 is third on the all-time list. ... 2,010 rushing yards in 1995. ... 4,195 rushing yards from 1995-96 is the best two-year total in NCAA history. ... Heisman Trophy runner-up in 1996. ... Two-time consensus All-American. ... Holds nearly every ISU school rushing record. On Sept. 28, 1996 against Missouri, Davis rushed for a school-record 378 yards on 41 carries.

Considering he played on a couple of the crummiest teams in Big 12 history and that the criminal homer losers on the Heisman selection committee picked Danny freaking Wuerffel (????) over him in 96...the guy deserves to be #1.
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Didn't Troy Davis pitch a shutout against the Wonderlic test also?

 
NUpolo8 said:
Cy the Cyclone said:
Troy Davis > Tommy Frazier

Led the nation in rushing in 1995 and '96. ... 2,185 rushing yards in 1996 is third on the all-time list. ... 2,010 rushing yards in 1995. ... 4,195 rushing yards from 1995-96 is the best two-year total in NCAA history. ... Heisman Trophy runner-up in 1996. ... Two-time consensus All-American. ... Holds nearly every ISU school rushing record. On Sept. 28, 1996 against Missouri, Davis rushed for a school-record 378 yards on 41 carries.

Considering he played on a couple of the crummiest teams in Big 12 history and that the criminal homer losers on the Heisman selection committee picked Danny freaking Wuerffel (????) over him in 96...the guy deserves to be #1.
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Didn't Troy Davis pitch a shutout against the Wonderlic test also?
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You don't carry the football in your head so that's irrelevant...true...but irrelevant

 
knapplc said:
walksalone said:
This is gonna sound silly, but what about Marcus Allen, or as much as I hate to admit it, Billy Sims...
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Billy Sims isn't silly at all. He was a damned good player. I was pretty young when he was playing at Oklahoma and I still remember getting this sick feeling in my stomach whenever they handed him the ball.

I agree with your Billy Sims statement. He was awesome. More than awesome. He deserves his ranking for sure. Others I can think of..Steve Young over Vince Young anyday. Single handedly led BYU over Michigan and his Pro career proves this right.

Dave Rimington and Rich Glover might also be there. Gino Marchetti from the replays I've seen of him was awesome, the 420 man himself wasn't so bad ( Ricky Williams), Archie Grigffin should be higher.

_________________________

Someone said earlier that Vince Young could/should be higher on the list than Tommie Frazier because he could pass, but they're apparently forgetting the option-pass to the tight end. I can't tell you how many times Tommie ran that option, stopped behind the impenetrable wall of his O-Line, then calmly threw a 20-yard pass to a tight end alone in the secondary. The TE was alone because they HAD TO bring the safety up to help stop the option, and it was an absolutely beautiful play.

Nobody is ever going to mistake Tommie Frazier for a passing QB, but he most certainly could pass when he needed to, and did so with devestating results.
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knapplc said:
huskerswrkhavoc said:
and i dont know what you're trying to say here exactly.. but if you're saying that berringer wasn't as good as the other 2 guys.. you're wrong there.. because according to TO.. it was a complete toss up who was going to be the starter in 95.. he believes that both quarterbacks were good enough to run the table that year, it really didn't matter.. It came down to the last week of practice before Tommy actually got the nod as the starter.. idk exactly what you're trying to say cuz im a little confused.. but thats what i know there
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Where is this information coming from? Because there never was any doubt in any of the press coverage of those teams whether a healthy Tommie Frazier would start over a healthy Brook Berringer.

If I had to guess I'd say that TO made that statement after Brook's death, and was being very politick about what he said.

Brook was a good college QB, and more than capable of leading our team.

Tommie was in another level of talent, however, and that was never in doubt for those of us who watched every game he played.
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From TO himself..

he gave a lecture shortly after being named AD to all BSAD 101 students at the University.. the class is a business leadership development class required of all freshman.. i can dig up my notebook somewhere and see what all i have down.. i can guarantee you, and if any of the other 450+ kids that were in one of the 2 lectures were on here, they could confirm that for you also...

since when does the press decide a starting quarterback?

 
REDSTEEL said:
huskerswrkhavoc said:
REDSTEEL said:
In 1994, Frazier didn't even play in our toughest games that year prior to the NC game (CU when they were ranked like 2nd or 3rd in the country). In the NC game, Frazier early in the game threw an INT in dangerous territory. The real MVP of the 94 NC game was the offensive line. They totally wore down Sapp and company making those gaping holes for Schlesinger to run through. In 95, yeah he was the MVP and had a heck of a game against Florida. However, I don't think this qualifies him as one of the best college football players ever. Considering Veland and Johnson got moved to other positions, I'm not quite sure how you can make the leap to them getting the nod over Berringer for the QB spot. Berringer was big enough and fast enough he easily could have been moved to WR if they were truelly better than him to back up Frazier.
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You ever wonder why the 95 team is considered the best team ever and the 94 is not? Was it because the offensive line of 05 was better then 94? Were the receivers runningbacks better then the previous year? Was the overall punting and fg kicking better? The answer would be no to those three questions. What other change happened that would make them the better offense? It's the fact that Tommie Frazier was able to play all year and make those close calls offenesively into blowouts.

It's not that big of a leap to think Veland or Johnson would have been in contention for the QB job and the next year the highly regarded recruit Ben Rutz coming from Oklahoma.

The reason why Veland and Johnson were moved from QB to those other positions was because they were such good athletes and of Osborne Philosophy of putting the best players out on the field. If Frazier would have never come in those moves most likely would never have occurred and there would have been a different results to those years

Further more I doubt T.O. gives Berringer the same chance to come in and replace Mike Grant during that season like he allowed Tommie Frazier to.
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and i dont know what you're trying to say here exactly.. but if you're saying that berringer wasn't as good as the other 2 guys.. you're wrong there.. because according to TO.. it was a complete toss up who was going to be the starter in 95.. he believes that both quarterbacks were good enough to run the table that year, it really didn't matter.. It came down to the last week of practice before Tommy actually got the nod as the starter.. idk exactly what you're trying to say cuz im a little confused.. but thats what i know there
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Talking about the 93 and 94 season. If Frazier does'nt pop up in 93 does Berringer even become the number 1, 2 or 3 qb in 94. I say the other two very good option qb out of highschool have the upper hand at taking the number one spot. I followed recruiting as much as you could back then and no one even knew who Berringer was back then.
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tom who? brady?

tony who? romo?

since when do you have to have a "big name" to be great on any level?

 
:bonez :hellloooo :hellloooo :bonez

Charles Woodson and Hugh Green ahead of d!(k Butkis, nope.

>>>T_O_B

:bonez :hellloooo :hellloooo :bonez

 
junior4949 said:
Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
huskerjack23 said:
how do you have vince young on that list and not tommie frazier? vince young, as good as he was, only won one national title, and no heisman trophy. starting since he was a true freshman, tommie frazier only lost three games and won two national titles! vince young lost twice to oklahoma!

i'm calling it bs, if frazier isn't number 1! he's number one, and there's no comparison.
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First of all, Vince Young definitely does deserve to be in the top 10. He put up significantly better numbers than Frazier did (season numbers, not career). Also, national titles are NOT significant in determining the best PLAYER. Thirdly, Frazier never won a Heisman trophy either. Vince Young was even more vital to his team than Frazier was, Vince WAS that team. He, almost by himself, raised that team out of the ashes so many times to win against very good opponents.

People like to attribute team success to the worth of a player, which is ridiculous. I'm not saying it's nonsense because it's not accurate, because a lot of the time a team can be successful because of one single player, but when the team doesn't win or if they only get x number of championships, who says it is because one person wasn't good enough?

I am upset that Frazier won't be on the list just like everyone else is, but Young deserves it more than Frazier does, in my as-objective-as-possible opinion.
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I laugh everytime someone argues that Frazier won 2 NC's. How many of those games exactly did Frazier even play in in 1994? Not many. The #2 and #3 QB's carried us into the title game which begs the question: how vital was he really on the 1994 NC team? Not very, IMO. In 1995, we could have had a child back there playing QB because all they had to do was take the snap from center and hand off. Hell, we probably could have direct snapped it and completely bypassed the QB in 1995. So, he wasn't vital to that NC either. Look at it like this. If Frazier wasn't there which he for the most part wasn't in 1994, would we still have won the NC in 94 and 95? I say we would. If Vince Young isn't there for Texas, do they win the NC? I say no. They've never really fully recovered from his absence yet. We continued to roll long after Frazier. We were one game away in 96 from playing for a NC, and we won it in 97. We ended up 2nd in 99 and played for one in 01.

I highly doubt he makes the list because 1) he didn't win the Heisman. The Heisman voters never in his 4 year career here at NU thought he was even the best player of the year. What makes you think he'll make #1 or #2 best college football player ever when he was never even voted best player of any particular year? For all we know Tebo may be in there as #1 or #2. I mean he is the first QB in the history of D1 to throw for 20 or more TD's and run for 20 or more TD's. Tommie Frazier was a great player for Nebraska, but lets not let our bias make him better than he actually was.
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I agree that NU was stacked with talent in `94 and that the backup QB's won most of the games that year ( after Frazier went down with his knee injury). But, I think you are forgetting the Orange Bowl game. Frazier went in and was rusty. Brook went in and threw a T.D. but really stalled and could not move the ball. We were losing the game when Frazier came back in and took over. His presence, and Miami's fear of his ability to run the option around the corners is what opened up those two trap plays that Slesinger ran for T.D.'s So, I disagree that we would have won the National Title in `94 without Frazier. We got to the game without him, but Miami had an incredible defense and it was Frazier that allowed NU to rise above.

But, that being said, ESPN is a bunch of D!CKS that hate NU so there is no way Frazier will make top 2. Also, I haven't heard anyone complain much about Rozier not making the list. He was one of just a handful of running backs to top the 2000 yard mark in a season and still holds the yards per carry record (I think both season and career).

 
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sCrUmptious! said:
I doubt Frazier has one of the top 2 spots, but I wouldn't worry too much about that, this whole list is an absolute crock.

Vince Young is way too high, Archie Griffen is way too low, and Reggie Bush and John Elway shouldn't be anywhere near this list (and this is coming from a diehard Broncos fan).

Personally, I'm pretty disappointed that Byron White won't be making the list from CU. On the mount rushmore of early football greats, you'd have to put Whizzer White right next to Red Grange.
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good call on byron white. when i ever talk with my dad (who grew up in colorado) and college football comes up in the conversation, he inevetably brings up the story about listening to the 1938 cotton bowl game against rice and how byron "whizzer" white scored the first two touchdowns to put CU up 14-0. he then conveniently forgets to talk about how they wound up losing 28-14!

 
A few comments:

While I agree that Gill was a great QB and perhaps more complete than Frazier, the comment that Gill couldn't play varsity as a freshman is wrong. Freshman were allowed to play starting sometime in the mid 70s. I believe Monte Anthony was the first freshman to play at NU. Osborne kept to keep most freshmen on the frosh team. I think Quinn was our QB in 80, wasn't he? That's a pretty good QB for Gill to beat out.

Vince Young is an absolute freak of an athlete. He put that Texas team on his back and took the championship game in his own hands. Had he stayed for his senior year he may very well have gotten his 2nd championship. I'm a big Frazier fan, but I put VY ahead of him. My opinion. It's too bad Frazier is not in at all.

Archie Griffin was #21 and that's very generous. good back for 4 years, but not spectacular like Walker, Sanders or Dorsett. He didn't have that great of a senior year but there wasn't another strong candidate. Chuck Muncie was 2 or 3 IIRC.

Charles Woodson at 11 and no Peyton Manning is just to piss off Tennessee fans who had finally quieted down some after 10 years.

Tom Novak in the top 25? You gotta be kidding me. Would there have been anyone outside of Husker Nation who wouldn't have said "who the f*** is that?"?

It'll be Red Grange. There is absolutely, positively, no way he is kept off the list. Simpson is deserving as a play of top 10, but will be kept out because of his legal troubles.

 
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