Nebraska's Michael Rose-Ivey receives racial backlash for anthem protest

[Count 'Bility]

The UK has had 55 police shootings resulting in death in the last 24 years. In the United States police shot and killed 59 people in the first 24 days of 2015. Argument over if other countries can do this so can we. We don't need to kill people to police them, period.

One of the reasons we have so many police shootings is the police have to deal with so many armed criminals.
But that's a gun control issue and I'm not going to derail this conversation by talking about the gun problem.

doesn't matter! We don't need to kill people, period. That's not how justice works in America. Also what about all of the unarmed and mentally ill being shot. I don't care if the criminals are armed, police should not be killing this many civilians and they need to let the justice system take care of sentencing instead of sentencing people in the street by killing them. I don't care about the circumstances at this point we have had far to many people of all races killed by police, that were causing no threat to police! Roughly 100 unarmed people have died since the start of 2015. That is a problem and if you can't see that you have a problem! Again why do we need to KILL PEOPLE to police them? I'm saying we don't.
It angers me when people act so nonchalantly about life. I don't care if these people have done bad things. Some have families and people they love very much. No one thinks about what's going on in this person's life. You just think "whoooo another bad guy down" but sometimes it's not always that simple. Sometimes it's not a bad guy, it could be a good guy by all other intents and purposes who had to do some bad things to get by. These are people's lives we are talking about and call me an idiot but I believe police should be preserving life at every turn. Not the polices job to give a criminal (or an innocent person in some cases) the death sentence. And the death sentence is deemed almost too horrible for society now. But we continue to accept that police kill a thousand people a year? I refuse to, there are better ways.

So the police should just let the armed man shoot them? It's not like cops kill all armed men, just the ones that should be threatening their life. Sure, sometimes it's paranoia. But a lot of times it's warranted.

No police should take down armed criminals with rubber bullets, tasers and dozens of other non lethal methods of incapacitation designed for police use. Take down the criminals and take them to jail I'm all for that but you can do it without killing them.

one question. What about the suspects that are so cranked up on sh#t that those things dont have an impact? My issue with all this is putting the full responsibility on police, while seemingly absolving the suspect for being in that situation to begin with. There's an easy solution. When dealing with the police, just do what they say. Dont run. Dont threaten. just stop, hands up get down. We want the police to let the justic system work. Well, if there's so much faith in that, then shouldnt suspects do the same? if youre innocent, youre innocent.

Look. I know there are bad cops. I get it. But i'm not letting 2% create negative generalizations for all. my wife's cousin-whom Im pretty good friends with-is an officer in Omaha. I will ALWAYS give the benefit of doubt to police, until facts come out. What needs to happen is it needs to be analyzed on a case by case situation instead of taking a few instances and using those to create this giant generalization. This is not a copout. This is not saying we should just forget about the bad 2%. it should be 0. We should strive for that. But here's the thing. The effort has to come from both sides. Not just "here good cops. since a couple bad cops were naughty, we're taking away your guns and giving you this paintball gun and tazers." Why cant there be accountability on the other side when it comes to just total cooperation or, hey, maybe not being in position to break the law inthe first place?

 

[STL Husker]

The UK has had 55 police shootings resulting in death in the last 24 years. In the United States police shot and killed 59 people in the first 24 days of 2015. Argument over if other countries can do this so can we. We don't need to kill people to police them, period.

One of the reasons we have so many police shootings is the police have to deal with so many armed criminals.
But that's a gun control issue and I'm not going to derail this conversation by talking about the gun problem.

doesn't matter! We don't need to kill people, period. That's not how justice works in America. Also what about all of the unarmed and mentally ill being shot. I don't care if the criminals are armed, police should not be killing this many civilians and they need to let the justice system take care of sentencing instead of sentencing people in the street by killing them. I don't care about the circumstances at this point we have had far to many people of all races killed by police, that were causing no threat to police! Roughly 100 unarmed people have died since the start of 2015. That is a problem and if you can't see that you have a problem! Again why do we need to KILL PEOPLE to police them? I'm saying we don't.
It angers me when people act so nonchalantly about life. I don't care if these people have done bad things. Some have families and people they love very much. No one thinks about what's going on in this person's life. You just think "whoooo another bad guy down" but sometimes it's not always that simple. Sometimes it's not a bad guy, it could be a good guy by all other intents and purposes who had to do some bad things to get by. These are people's lives we are talking about and call me an idiot but I believe police should be preserving life at every turn. Not the polices job to give a criminal (or an innocent person in some cases) the death sentence. And the death sentence is deemed almost too horrible for society now. But we continue to accept that police kill a thousand people a year? I refuse to, there are better ways.

So the police should just let the armed man shoot them? It's not like cops kill all armed men, just the ones that should be threatening their life. Sure, sometimes it's paranoia. But a lot of times it's warranted.

I think that's the actual reason for protests. It started with Michael Brown when there were claims that his hands were up when he was shot. There's not much evidence to prove that, but since then I have seen multiple videos of police killing black men who were not threatening the officer's life. How many times has this happened when there wasn't someone there to record it?

No, they should not just let an armed person shoot them, but they better be sure as hell that their life is endangered before they pull the trigger. That is the law for a regular civilian and police should should have enough training to be held to an even higher standard than that. Yes, that potentially puts them at greater risk, but that's why we hold police officers in such high regard.

 

[Nebfanatic]

The UK has had 55 police shootings resulting in death in the last 24 years. In the United States police shot and killed 59 people in the first 24 days of 2015. Argument over if other countries can do this so can we. We don't need to kill people to police them, period.

One of the reasons we have so many police shootings is the police have to deal with so many armed criminals.
But that's a gun control issue and I'm not going to derail this conversation by talking about the gun problem.

doesn't matter! We don't need to kill people, period. That's not how justice works in America. Also what about all of the unarmed and mentally ill being shot. I don't care if the criminals are armed, police should not be killing this many civilians and they need to let the justice system take care of sentencing instead of sentencing people in the street by killing them. I don't care about the circumstances at this point we have had far to many people of all races killed by police, that were causing no threat to police! Roughly 100 unarmed people have died since the start of 2015. That is a problem and if you can't see that you have a problem! Again why do we need to KILL PEOPLE to police them? I'm saying we don't.
It angers me when people act so nonchalantly about life. I don't care if these people have done bad things. Some have families and people they love very much. No one thinks about what's going on in this person's life. You just think "whoooo another bad guy down" but sometimes it's not always that simple. Sometimes it's not a bad guy, it could be a good guy by all other intents and purposes who had to do some bad things to get by. These are people's lives we are talking about and call me an idiot but I believe police should be preserving life at every turn. Not the polices job to give a criminal (or an innocent person in some cases) the death sentence. And the death sentence is deemed almost too horrible for society now. But we continue to accept that police kill a thousand people a year? I refuse to, there are better ways.

So the police should just let the armed man shoot them? It's not like cops kill all armed men, just the ones that should be threatening their life. Sure, sometimes it's paranoia. But a lot of times it's warranted.

No police should take down armed criminals with rubber bullets, tasers and dozens of other non lethal methods of incapacitation designed for police use. Take down the criminals and take them to jail I'm all for that but you can do it without killing them.

one question. What about the suspects that are so cranked up on sh#t that those things dont have an impact? My issue with all this is putting the full responsibility on police, while seemingly absolving the suspect for being in that situation to begin with. There's an easy solution. When dealing with the police, just do what they say. Dont run. Dont threaten. just stop, hands up get down. We want the police to let the justic system work. Well, if there's so much faith in that, then shouldnt suspects do the same? if youre innocent, youre innocent.
Look. I know there are bad cops. I get it. But i'm not letting 2% create negative generalizations for all. my wife's cousin-whom Im pretty good friends with-is an officer in Omaha. I will ALWAYS give the benefit of doubt to police, until facts come out. What needs to happen is it needs to be analyzed on a case by case situation instead of taking a few instances and using those to create this giant generalization. This is not a copout. This is not saying we should just forget about the bad 2%. it should be 0. We should strive for that. But here's the thing. The effort has to come from both sides. Not just "here good cops. since a couple bad cops were naughty, we're taking away your guns and giving you this paintball gun and tazers." Why cant there be accountability on the other side when it comes to just total cooperation or, hey, maybe not being in position to break the law inthe first place?

You're not understanding..
First of all I'm not blaming police. Police in most cases are doing their job when they kill a person. I'm arguing that should not be the polices decision in the first place. I am sorry but insubordination or not listeNing to what police say is not punishable by death. Most crimes committed aren't punishable by death yet people are being punished by death for their wrong doings every day at the hands of police. This is not how justice works in america. People go to trial and are judged by a jury of their peers. In my mind it is unconstitutional for police to kill people. Police shouldn't be doing it plain and simple. It's not about good cops or bad cops. All cops don't need to kill people in order to safely police. Suspects don't deserve to die plain and simple. They have a right just like everyone else to a fair trial whether they cooperate with police or not. If they don't cooperate with police then they go to jail longer. But justifying police killings by saying they were not listening is silly. That is not a reason to shoot someone.

For the record, this is all to argue that maybe law enforcement reform is needed.

 

[GBRHouston]

The UK has had 55 police shootings resulting in death in the last 24 years. In the United States police shot and killed 59 people in the first 24 days of 2015. Argument over if other countries can do this so can we. We don't need to kill people to police them, period.

One of the reasons we have so many police shootings is the police have to deal with so many armed criminals.
But that's a gun control issue and I'm not going to derail this conversation by talking about the gun problem.

doesn't matter! We don't need to kill people, period. That's not how justice works in America. Also what about all of the unarmed and mentally ill being shot. I don't care if the criminals are armed, police should not be killing this many civilians and they need to let the justice system take care of sentencing instead of sentencing people in the street by killing them. I don't care about the circumstances at this point we have had far to many people of all races killed by police, that were causing no threat to police! Roughly 100 unarmed people have died since the start of 2015. That is a problem and if you can't see that you have a problem! Again why do we need to KILL PEOPLE to police them? I'm saying we don't.
It angers me when people act so nonchalantly about life. I don't care if these people have done bad things. Some have families and people they love very much. No one thinks about what's going on in this person's life. You just think "whoooo another bad guy down" but sometimes it's not always that simple. Sometimes it's not a bad guy, it could be a good guy by all other intents and purposes who had to do some bad things to get by. These are people's lives we are talking about and call me an idiot but I believe police should be preserving life at every turn. Not the polices job to give a criminal (or an innocent person in some cases) the death sentence. And the death sentence is deemed almost too horrible for society now. But we continue to accept that police kill a thousand people a year? I refuse to, there are better ways.

So the police should just let the armed man shoot them? It's not like cops kill all armed men, just the ones that should be threatening their life. Sure, sometimes it's paranoia. But a lot of times it's warranted.

I think that's the actual reason for protests. It started with Michael Brown when there were claims that his hands were up when he was shot. There's not much evidence to prove that, but since then I have seen multiple videos of police killing black men who were not threatening the officer's life. How many times has this happened when there wasn't someone there to record it?

No, they should not just let an armed person shoot them, but they better be sure as hell that their life is endangered before they pull the trigger. That is the law for a regular civilian and police should should have enough training to be held to an even higher standard than that. Yes, that potentially puts them at greater risk, but that's why we hold police officers in such high regard.

You're right, they should make sure their life is 100% in danger. But like I said on the last page, I feel like too many instances where a cop shoots a black man are considered "racist" without actually trying to see if it was racist or not.

 

[GBRHouston]

The UK has had 55 police shootings resulting in death in the last 24 years. In the United States police shot and killed 59 people in the first 24 days of 2015. Argument over if other countries can do this so can we. We don't need to kill people to police them, period.

One of the reasons we have so many police shootings is the police have to deal with so many armed criminals.
But that's a gun control issue and I'm not going to derail this conversation by talking about the gun problem.

doesn't matter! We don't need to kill people, period. That's not how justice works in America. Also what about all of the unarmed and mentally ill being shot. I don't care if the criminals are armed, police should not be killing this many civilians and they need to let the justice system take care of sentencing instead of sentencing people in the street by killing them. I don't care about the circumstances at this point we have had far to many people of all races killed by police, that were causing no threat to police! Roughly 100 unarmed people have died since the start of 2015. That is a problem and if you can't see that you have a problem! Again why do we need to KILL PEOPLE to police them? I'm saying we don't.
It angers me when people act so nonchalantly about life. I don't care if these people have done bad things. Some have families and people they love very much. No one thinks about what's going on in this person's life. You just think "whoooo another bad guy down" but sometimes it's not always that simple. Sometimes it's not a bad guy, it could be a good guy by all other intents and purposes who had to do some bad things to get by. These are people's lives we are talking about and call me an idiot but I believe police should be preserving life at every turn. Not the polices job to give a criminal (or an innocent person in some cases) the death sentence. And the death sentence is deemed almost too horrible for society now. But we continue to accept that police kill a thousand people a year? I refuse to, there are better ways.

So the police should just let the armed man shoot them? It's not like cops kill all armed men, just the ones that should be threatening their life. Sure, sometimes it's paranoia. But a lot of times it's warranted.

No police should take down armed criminals with rubber bullets, tasers and dozens of other non lethal methods of incapacitation designed for police use. Take down the criminals and take them to jail I'm all for that but you can do it without killing them.

one question. What about the suspects that are so cranked up on sh#t that those things dont have an impact? My issue with all this is putting the full responsibility on police, while seemingly absolving the suspect for being in that situation to begin with. There's an easy solution. When dealing with the police, just do what they say. Dont run. Dont threaten. just stop, hands up get down. We want the police to let the justic system work. Well, if there's so much faith in that, then shouldnt suspects do the same? if youre innocent, youre innocent.
Look. I know there are bad cops. I get it. But i'm not letting 2% create negative generalizations for all. my wife's cousin-whom Im pretty good friends with-is an officer in Omaha. I will ALWAYS give the benefit of doubt to police, until facts come out. What needs to happen is it needs to be analyzed on a case by case situation instead of taking a few instances and using those to create this giant generalization. This is not a copout. This is not saying we should just forget about the bad 2%. it should be 0. We should strive for that. But here's the thing. The effort has to come from both sides. Not just "here good cops. since a couple bad cops were naughty, we're taking away your guns and giving you this paintball gun and tazers." Why cant there be accountability on the other side when it comes to just total cooperation or, hey, maybe not being in position to break the law inthe first place?

You're not understanding..
First of all I'm not blaming police. Police in most cases are doing their job when they kill a person. I'm arguing that should not be the polices decision in the first place. I am sorry but insubordination or not listeNing to what police say is not punishable by death. Most crimes committed aren't punishable by death yet people are being punished by death for their wrong doings every day at the hands of police. This is not how justice works in america. People go to trial and are judged by a jury of their peers. In my mind it is unconstitutional for police to kill people. Police shouldn't be doing it plain and simple. It's not about good cops or bad cops. All cops don't need to kill people in order to safely police. Suspects don't deserve to die plain and simple. They have a right just like everyone else to a fair trial whether they cooperate with police or not. If they don't cooperate with police then they go to jail longer. But justifying police killings by saying they were not listening is silly. That is not a reason to shoot someone.

For the record, this is all to argue that maybe law enforcement reform is needed.

You're making it seem like bad shootings are an every day thing, when in reality, they're not. Of course insubordination isn't punishable by death, and >99.99% of insubordination cases are handled non-fatally. It warrants extra jail time, and in the vast majority of cases, that is what the person receives.

 

[Count 'Bility]

The UK has had 55 police shootings resulting in death in the last 24 years. In the United States police shot and killed 59 people in the first 24 days of 2015. Argument over if other countries can do this so can we. We don't need to kill people to police them, period.

One of the reasons we have so many police shootings is the police have to deal with so many armed criminals.
But that's a gun control issue and I'm not going to derail this conversation by talking about the gun problem.

doesn't matter! We don't need to kill people, period. That's not how justice works in America. Also what about all of the unarmed and mentally ill being shot. I don't care if the criminals are armed, police should not be killing this many civilians and they need to let the justice system take care of sentencing instead of sentencing people in the street by killing them. I don't care about the circumstances at this point we have had far to many people of all races killed by police, that were causing no threat to police! Roughly 100 unarmed people have died since the start of 2015. That is a problem and if you can't see that you have a problem! Again why do we need to KILL PEOPLE to police them? I'm saying we don't.
It angers me when people act so nonchalantly about life. I don't care if these people have done bad things. Some have families and people they love very much. No one thinks about what's going on in this person's life. You just think "whoooo another bad guy down" but sometimes it's not always that simple. Sometimes it's not a bad guy, it could be a good guy by all other intents and purposes who had to do some bad things to get by. These are people's lives we are talking about and call me an idiot but I believe police should be preserving life at every turn. Not the polices job to give a criminal (or an innocent person in some cases) the death sentence. And the death sentence is deemed almost too horrible for society now. But we continue to accept that police kill a thousand people a year? I refuse to, there are better ways.

So the police should just let the armed man shoot them? It's not like cops kill all armed men, just the ones that should be threatening their life. Sure, sometimes it's paranoia. But a lot of times it's warranted.

No police should take down armed criminals with rubber bullets, tasers and dozens of other non lethal methods of incapacitation designed for police use. Take down the criminals and take them to jail I'm all for that but you can do it without killing them.

one question. What about the suspects that are so cranked up on sh#t that those things dont have an impact? My issue with all this is putting the full responsibility on police, while seemingly absolving the suspect for being in that situation to begin with. There's an easy solution. When dealing with the police, just do what they say. Dont run. Dont threaten. just stop, hands up get down. We want the police to let the justic system work. Well, if there's so much faith in that, then shouldnt suspects do the same? if youre innocent, youre innocent.
Look. I know there are bad cops. I get it. But i'm not letting 2% create negative generalizations for all. my wife's cousin-whom Im pretty good friends with-is an officer in Omaha. I will ALWAYS give the benefit of doubt to police, until facts come out. What needs to happen is it needs to be analyzed on a case by case situation instead of taking a few instances and using those to create this giant generalization. This is not a copout. This is not saying we should just forget about the bad 2%. it should be 0. We should strive for that. But here's the thing. The effort has to come from both sides. Not just "here good cops. since a couple bad cops were naughty, we're taking away your guns and giving you this paintball gun and tazers." Why cant there be accountability on the other side when it comes to just total cooperation or, hey, maybe not being in position to break the law inthe first place?

You're not understanding..
First of all I'm not blaming police. Police in most cases are doing their job when they kill a person. I'm arguing that should not be the polices decision in the first place. I am sorry but insubordination or not listeNing to what police say is not punishable by death. Most crimes committed aren't punishable by death yet people are being punished by death for their wrong doings every day at the hands of police. This is not how justice works in america. People go to trial and are judged by a jury of their peers. In my mind it is unconstitutional for police to kill people. Police shouldn't be doing it plain and simple. It's not about good cops or bad cops. All cops don't need to kill people in order to safely police. Suspects don't deserve to die plain and simple. They have a right just like everyone else to a fair trial whether they cooperate with police or not. If they don't cooperate with police then they go to jail longer. But justifying police killings by saying they were not listening is silly. That is not a reason to shoot someone.

For the record, this is all to argue that maybe law enforcement reform is needed.

I do understand. i respect your point. Im just not agreeing. Your point makes total sense. My point is that police deserve the benefit of the doubt and that they are in a really tough situation. Esp now a days with all the negativity surrounding the position. When things like Dallas happen, we have to understand why they are becoming more ansy in defense. BOTH sides need to do a better job of avoiding these bad situations.

 

[Nebfanatic]

The UK has had 55 police shootings resulting in death in the last 24 years. In the United States police shot and killed 59 people in the first 24 days of 2015. Argument over if other countries can do this so can we. We don't need to kill people to police them, period.

One of the reasons we have so many police shootings is the police have to deal with so many armed criminals.
But that's a gun control issue and I'm not going to derail this conversation by talking about the gun problem.

doesn't matter! We don't need to kill people, period. That's not how justice works in America. Also what about all of the unarmed and mentally ill being shot. I don't care if the criminals are armed, police should not be killing this many civilians and they need to let the justice system take care of sentencing instead of sentencing people in the street by killing them. I don't care about the circumstances at this point we have had far to many people of all races killed by police, that were causing no threat to police! Roughly 100 unarmed people have died since the start of 2015. That is a problem and if you can't see that you have a problem! Again why do we need to KILL PEOPLE to police them? I'm saying we don't.
It angers me when people act so nonchalantly about life. I don't care if these people have done bad things. Some have families and people they love very much. No one thinks about what's going on in this person's life. You just think "whoooo another bad guy down" but sometimes it's not always that simple. Sometimes it's not a bad guy, it could be a good guy by all other intents and purposes who had to do some bad things to get by. These are people's lives we are talking about and call me an idiot but I believe police should be preserving life at every turn. Not the polices job to give a criminal (or an innocent person in some cases) the death sentence. And the death sentence is deemed almost too horrible for society now. But we continue to accept that police kill a thousand people a year? I refuse to, there are better ways.

So the police should just let the armed man shoot them? It's not like cops kill all armed men, just the ones that should be threatening their life. Sure, sometimes it's paranoia. But a lot of times it's warranted.

No police should take down armed criminals with rubber bullets, tasers and dozens of other non lethal methods of incapacitation designed for police use. Take down the criminals and take them to jail I'm all for that but you can do it without killing them.

one question. What about the suspects that are so cranked up on sh#t that those things dont have an impact? My issue with all this is putting the full responsibility on police, while seemingly absolving the suspect for being in that situation to begin with. There's an easy solution. When dealing with the police, just do what they say. Dont run. Dont threaten. just stop, hands up get down. We want the police to let the justic system work. Well, if there's so much faith in that, then shouldnt suspects do the same? if youre innocent, youre innocent.
Look. I know there are bad cops. I get it. But i'm not letting 2% create negative generalizations for all. my wife's cousin-whom Im pretty good friends with-is an officer in Omaha. I will ALWAYS give the benefit of doubt to police, until facts come out. What needs to happen is it needs to be analyzed on a case by case situation instead of taking a few instances and using those to create this giant generalization. This is not a copout. This is not saying we should just forget about the bad 2%. it should be 0. We should strive for that. But here's the thing. The effort has to come from both sides. Not just "here good cops. since a couple bad cops were naughty, we're taking away your guns and giving you this paintball gun and tazers." Why cant there be accountability on the other side when it comes to just total cooperation or, hey, maybe not being in position to break the law inthe first place?

You're not understanding..
First of all I'm not blaming police. Police in most cases are doing their job when they kill a person. I'm arguing that should not be the polices decision in the first place. I am sorry but insubordination or not listeNing to what police say is not punishable by death. Most crimes committed aren't punishable by death yet people are being punished by death for their wrong doings every day at the hands of police. This is not how justice works in america. People go to trial and are judged by a jury of their peers. In my mind it is unconstitutional for police to kill people. Police shouldn't be doing it plain and simple. It's not about good cops or bad cops. All cops don't need to kill people in order to safely police. Suspects don't deserve to die plain and simple. They have a right just like everyone else to a fair trial whether they cooperate with police or not. If they don't cooperate with police then they go to jail longer. But justifying police killings by saying they were not listening is silly. That is not a reason to shoot someone.

For the record, this is all to argue that maybe law enforcement reform is needed.

You're making it seem like bad shootings are an every day thing, when in reality, they're not. Of course insubordination isn't punishable by death, and >99.99% of insubordination cases are handled non-fatally. It warrants extra jail time, and in the vast majority of cases, that is what the person receives.

I was responding to count who told me if you don't want police to shoot you listen to what they say or don't commit a crime. Faulty logic there. Realistically bad shootings are pretty common. People are killed every day by the police at least every day thus far this year and I would argue a fair share of those(~25%) did not need to happen at all and probably 50% more may have been close calls ot whatever but could have been handled in a way that didn't result in someone losing their life. Put those people in jail not in graves. Regardless of who they are and what they've done.
Instead of justifying police killing people why don't we work on solutions to where police don't have to kill people. I guarantee most any police officer would be in favor of this

 

[Nebfanatic]

The UK has had 55 police shootings resulting in death in the last 24 years. In the United States police shot and killed 59 people in the first 24 days of 2015. Argument over if other countries can do this so can we. We don't need to kill people to police them, period.

One of the reasons we have so many police shootings is the police have to deal with so many armed criminals.
But that's a gun control issue and I'm not going to derail this conversation by talking about the gun problem.

doesn't matter! We don't need to kill people, period. That's not how justice works in America. Also what about all of the unarmed and mentally ill being shot. I don't care if the criminals are armed, police should not be killing this many civilians and they need to let the justice system take care of sentencing instead of sentencing people in the street by killing them. I don't care about the circumstances at this point we have had far to many people of all races killed by police, that were causing no threat to police! Roughly 100 unarmed people have died since the start of 2015. That is a problem and if you can't see that you have a problem! Again why do we need to KILL PEOPLE to police them? I'm saying we don't.
It angers me when people act so nonchalantly about life. I don't care if these people have done bad things. Some have families and people they love very much. No one thinks about what's going on in this person's life. You just think "whoooo another bad guy down" but sometimes it's not always that simple. Sometimes it's not a bad guy, it could be a good guy by all other intents and purposes who had to do some bad things to get by. These are people's lives we are talking about and call me an idiot but I believe police should be preserving life at every turn. Not the polices job to give a criminal (or an innocent person in some cases) the death sentence. And the death sentence is deemed almost too horrible for society now. But we continue to accept that police kill a thousand people a year? I refuse to, there are better ways.

So the police should just let the armed man shoot them? It's not like cops kill all armed men, just the ones that should be threatening their life. Sure, sometimes it's paranoia. But a lot of times it's warranted.

No police should take down armed criminals with rubber bullets, tasers and dozens of other non lethal methods of incapacitation designed for police use. Take down the criminals and take them to jail I'm all for that but you can do it without killing them.

one question. What about the suspects that are so cranked up on sh#t that those things dont have an impact? My issue with all this is putting the full responsibility on police, while seemingly absolving the suspect for being in that situation to begin with. There's an easy solution. When dealing with the police, just do what they say. Dont run. Dont threaten. just stop, hands up get down. We want the police to let the justic system work. Well, if there's so much faith in that, then shouldnt suspects do the same? if youre innocent, youre innocent.
Look. I know there are bad cops. I get it. But i'm not letting 2% create negative generalizations for all. my wife's cousin-whom Im pretty good friends with-is an officer in Omaha. I will ALWAYS give the benefit of doubt to police, until facts come out. What needs to happen is it needs to be analyzed on a case by case situation instead of taking a few instances and using those to create this giant generalization. This is not a copout. This is not saying we should just forget about the bad 2%. it should be 0. We should strive for that. But here's the thing. The effort has to come from both sides. Not just "here good cops. since a couple bad cops were naughty, we're taking away your guns and giving you this paintball gun and tazers." Why cant there be accountability on the other side when it comes to just total cooperation or, hey, maybe not being in position to break the law inthe first place?

You're not understanding..
First of all I'm not blaming police. Police in most cases are doing their job when they kill a person. I'm arguing that should not be the polices decision in the first place. I am sorry but insubordination or not listeNing to what police say is not punishable by death. Most crimes committed aren't punishable by death yet people are being punished by death for their wrong doings every day at the hands of police. This is not how justice works in america. People go to trial and are judged by a jury of their peers. In my mind it is unconstitutional for police to kill people. Police shouldn't be doing it plain and simple. It's not about good cops or bad cops. All cops don't need to kill people in order to safely police. Suspects don't deserve to die plain and simple. They have a right just like everyone else to a fair trial whether they cooperate with police or not. If they don't cooperate with police then they go to jail longer. But justifying police killings by saying they were not listening is silly. That is not a reason to shoot someone.

For the record, this is all to argue that maybe law enforcement reform is needed.

I do understand. i respect your point. Im just not agreeing. Your point makes total sense. My point is that police deserve the benefit of the doubt and that they are in a really tough situation. Esp now a days with all the negativity surrounding the position. When things like Dallas happen, we have to understand why they are becoming more ansy in defense. BOTH sides need to do a better job of avoiding these bad situations.

I agree police are in tough positions and I don't blame police I just think we should work for better solutions instead of justifying police killing civilians. Police don't want to kill people and I'm sure it takes a toll on officers that have to. This isn't just for the good of civilians but I think finding solutions to this issue will be for the good of all parties involved.

 

[Nebfanatic]

I think I've made my point. (MRI protest could look to force law enforcement reform, and while it may not be necessary there is certainly an argument that it is) I'll call it a day on this thread and agree to disagree with you fine people. Sincerely, I don't have a grudge against police or people who support and respect police. I for the most part support and respect police as well, I just think there are other ways to police the American people, that's all.

 

[GBRHouston]

I think I've made my point. (MRI protest could look to force law enforcement reform, and while it may not be necessary there is certainly and argument that is) I'll call it a day on this thread and agree to disagree with you fine people. Sincerely, I don't have a grudge against police or people who support and respect police. I for the most part support and respect police as well, I just think there are other ways to police the American people, that's all.

Good move, and I will do the same.

 

[Count 'Bility]

The UK has had 55 police shootings resulting in death in the last 24 years. In the United States police shot and killed 59 people in the first 24 days of 2015. Argument over if other countries can do this so can we. We don't need to kill people to police them, period.

One of the reasons we have so many police shootings is the police have to deal with so many armed criminals.
But that's a gun control issue and I'm not going to derail this conversation by talking about the gun problem.

doesn't matter! We don't need to kill people, period. That's not how justice works in America. Also what about all of the unarmed and mentally ill being shot. I don't care if the criminals are armed, police should not be killing this many civilians and they need to let the justice system take care of sentencing instead of sentencing people in the street by killing them. I don't care about the circumstances at this point we have had far to many people of all races killed by police, that were causing no threat to police! Roughly 100 unarmed people have died since the start of 2015. That is a problem and if you can't see that you have a problem! Again why do we need to KILL PEOPLE to police them? I'm saying we don't.
It angers me when people act so nonchalantly about life. I don't care if these people have done bad things. Some have families and people they love very much. No one thinks about what's going on in this person's life. You just think "whoooo another bad guy down" but sometimes it's not always that simple. Sometimes it's not a bad guy, it could be a good guy by all other intents and purposes who had to do some bad things to get by. These are people's lives we are talking about and call me an idiot but I believe police should be preserving life at every turn. Not the polices job to give a criminal (or an innocent person in some cases) the death sentence. And the death sentence is deemed almost too horrible for society now. But we continue to accept that police kill a thousand people a year? I refuse to, there are better ways.

So the police should just let the armed man shoot them? It's not like cops kill all armed men, just the ones that should be threatening their life. Sure, sometimes it's paranoia. But a lot of times it's warranted.

No police should take down armed criminals with rubber bullets, tasers and dozens of other non lethal methods of incapacitation designed for police use. Take down the criminals and take them to jail I'm all for that but you can do it without killing them.

one question. What about the suspects that are so cranked up on sh#t that those things dont have an impact? My issue with all this is putting the full responsibility on police, while seemingly absolving the suspect for being in that situation to begin with. There's an easy solution. When dealing with the police, just do what they say. Dont run. Dont threaten. just stop, hands up get down. We want the police to let the justic system work. Well, if there's so much faith in that, then shouldnt suspects do the same? if youre innocent, youre innocent.
Look. I know there are bad cops. I get it. But i'm not letting 2% create negative generalizations for all. my wife's cousin-whom Im pretty good friends with-is an officer in Omaha. I will ALWAYS give the benefit of doubt to police, until facts come out. What needs to happen is it needs to be analyzed on a case by case situation instead of taking a few instances and using those to create this giant generalization. This is not a copout. This is not saying we should just forget about the bad 2%. it should be 0. We should strive for that. But here's the thing. The effort has to come from both sides. Not just "here good cops. since a couple bad cops were naughty, we're taking away your guns and giving you this paintball gun and tazers." Why cant there be accountability on the other side when it comes to just total cooperation or, hey, maybe not being in position to break the law inthe first place?

You're not understanding..
First of all I'm not blaming police. Police in most cases are doing their job when they kill a person. I'm arguing that should not be the polices decision in the first place. I am sorry but insubordination or not listeNing to what police say is not punishable by death. Most crimes committed aren't punishable by death yet people are being punished by death for their wrong doings every day at the hands of police. This is not how justice works in america. People go to trial and are judged by a jury of their peers. In my mind it is unconstitutional for police to kill people. Police shouldn't be doing it plain and simple. It's not about good cops or bad cops. All cops don't need to kill people in order to safely police. Suspects don't deserve to die plain and simple. They have a right just like everyone else to a fair trial whether they cooperate with police or not. If they don't cooperate with police then they go to jail longer. But justifying police killings by saying they were not listening is silly. That is not a reason to shoot someone.

For the record, this is all to argue that maybe law enforcement reform is needed.

I do understand. i respect your point. Im just not agreeing. Your point makes total sense. My point is that police deserve the benefit of the doubt and that they are in a really tough situation. Esp now a days with all the negativity surrounding the position. When things like Dallas happen, we have to understand why they are becoming more ansy in defense. BOTH sides need to do a better job of avoiding these bad situations.

I agree police are in tough positions and I don't blame police I just think we should work for better solutions instead of justifying police killing civilians. Police don't want to kill people and I'm sure it takes a toll on officers that have to. This isn't just for the good of civilians but I think finding solutions to this issue will be for the good of all parties involved.

effort from both sides. My only worry in all this is is that it heads down a road where folks start absolving responsibilities of the suspects and continue to put the police in tougher situations, where, down the road, ppl dont wanna be cops. it's got me a bit nervous about where we're headed as a society in terms of priorities.

 

[Nebfanatic]

The UK has had 55 police shootings resulting in death in the last 24 years. In the United States police shot and killed 59 people in the first 24 days of 2015. Argument over if other countries can do this so can we. We don't need to kill people to police them, period.

One of the reasons we have so many police shootings is the police have to deal with so many armed criminals.
But that's a gun control issue and I'm not going to derail this conversation by talking about the gun problem.

doesn't matter! We don't need to kill people, period. That's not how justice works in America. Also what about all of the unarmed and mentally ill being shot. I don't care if the criminals are armed, police should not be killing this many civilians and they need to let the justice system take care of sentencing instead of sentencing people in the street by killing them. I don't care about the circumstances at this point we have had far to many people of all races killed by police, that were causing no threat to police! Roughly 100 unarmed people have died since the start of 2015. That is a problem and if you can't see that you have a problem! Again why do we need to KILL PEOPLE to police them? I'm saying we don't.
It angers me when people act so nonchalantly about life. I don't care if these people have done bad things. Some have families and people they love very much. No one thinks about what's going on in this person's life. You just think "whoooo another bad guy down" but sometimes it's not always that simple. Sometimes it's not a bad guy, it could be a good guy by all other intents and purposes who had to do some bad things to get by. These are people's lives we are talking about and call me an idiot but I believe police should be preserving life at every turn. Not the polices job to give a criminal (or an innocent person in some cases) the death sentence. And the death sentence is deemed almost too horrible for society now. But we continue to accept that police kill a thousand people a year? I refuse to, there are better ways.

So the police should just let the armed man shoot them? It's not like cops kill all armed men, just the ones that should be threatening their life. Sure, sometimes it's paranoia. But a lot of times it's warranted.

No police should take down armed criminals with rubber bullets, tasers and dozens of other non lethal methods of incapacitation designed for police use. Take down the criminals and take them to jail I'm all for that but you can do it without killing them.

one question. What about the suspects that are so cranked up on sh#t that those things dont have an impact? My issue with all this is putting the full responsibility on police, while seemingly absolving the suspect for being in that situation to begin with. There's an easy solution. When dealing with the police, just do what they say. Dont run. Dont threaten. just stop, hands up get down. We want the police to let the justic system work. Well, if there's so much faith in that, then shouldnt suspects do the same? if youre innocent, youre innocent.
Look. I know there are bad cops. I get it. But i'm not letting 2% create negative generalizations for all. my wife's cousin-whom Im pretty good friends with-is an officer in Omaha. I will ALWAYS give the benefit of doubt to police, until facts come out. What needs to happen is it needs to be analyzed on a case by case situation instead of taking a few instances and using those to create this giant generalization. This is not a copout. This is not saying we should just forget about the bad 2%. it should be 0. We should strive for that. But here's the thing. The effort has to come from both sides. Not just "here good cops. since a couple bad cops were naughty, we're taking away your guns and giving you this paintball gun and tazers." Why cant there be accountability on the other side when it comes to just total cooperation or, hey, maybe not being in position to break the law inthe first place?

You're not understanding..
First of all I'm not blaming police. Police in most cases are doing their job when they kill a person. I'm arguing that should not be the polices decision in the first place. I am sorry but insubordination or not listeNing to what police say is not punishable by death. Most crimes committed aren't punishable by death yet people are being punished by death for their wrong doings every day at the hands of police. This is not how justice works in america. People go to trial and are judged by a jury of their peers. In my mind it is unconstitutional for police to kill people. Police shouldn't be doing it plain and simple. It's not about good cops or bad cops. All cops don't need to kill people in order to safely police. Suspects don't deserve to die plain and simple. They have a right just like everyone else to a fair trial whether they cooperate with police or not. If they don't cooperate with police then they go to jail longer. But justifying police killings by saying they were not listening is silly. That is not a reason to shoot someone.

For the record, this is all to argue that maybe law enforcement reform is needed.

I do understand. i respect your point. Im just not agreeing. Your point makes total sense. My point is that police deserve the benefit of the doubt and that they are in a really tough situation. Esp now a days with all the negativity surrounding the position. When things like Dallas happen, we have to understand why they are becoming more ansy in defense. BOTH sides need to do a better job of avoiding these bad situations.

I agree police are in tough positions and I don't blame police I just think we should work for better solutions instead of justifying police killing civilians. Police don't want to kill people and I'm sure it takes a toll on officers that have to. This isn't just for the good of civilians but I think finding solutions to this issue will be for the good of all parties involved.

effort from both sides. My only worry in all this is is that it heads down a road where folks start absolving responsibilities of the suspects and continue to put the police in tougher situations, where, down the road, ppl dont wanna be cops. it's got me a bit nervous about where we're headed as a society in terms of priorities.

last post to respond here. I see that, I do. We do need civilians to step up and act civil and help make the polices job easier however they can. Respect and trust from both sides can bring us together and I have spoke on this on my social media accounts as well. Gotta close the gap between civilians and police. Harmony between the two parties will drastically improve upon what our police-civilian relations are like today. I do 100% agree with that and people should have a responsibility to also abide by the law. Just don't like seeing people lose their lives that's all it gets me worked up lol

 

[Jim Hammer]

The reason I brought up guns is that it makes the cops job a lot harder to not kill someone if their own life is being threatened. If a criminal points a gun at a cop, the cop should shoot them. And not to wound, to kill. If someone pulls a knife, you have many more means to incapacitate them non-lethally.

But we have a lot of killings where the cop's life isn't in danger, and that's why we have these protests. When a black person dies in this matter, it makes the news. White people die too, but it doesn't bend the needle as far as the media goes. Going by the numbers, the instances of blacks being killed isn't that much greater than those of white people. But studies have shown that over all, blacks to get worse treatment from the police than white people.

So whether or not you agree with the way MRI and others protest, you have to admit there's a problem with law enforcement in this country.

 

[Landlord]

Nobody is saying all cops are bad. We know the majority do a great job. But those who don't need to be held accountable.

Good. I can work with this.

Are you sure? Because you just said...

There isn't any law enforcement reforming to do!

In which case, you would be wrong.

Ferguson’s law enforcement practices are shaped by the City’s focus on revenue rather than by public safety needs. This emphasis on revenue has compromised the institutional character of Ferguson’s police department, contributing to a pattern of unconstitutional policing, and has also shaped its municipal court, leading to procedures that raise due process concerns and inflict unnecessary harm on members of the Ferguson community. Further, Ferguson’s police and municipal court practices both reflect and exacerbate existing racial bias, including racial stereotypes. Ferguson’s own data establish clear racial disparities that adversely impact African Americans. The evidence shows that discriminatory intent is part of the reason for these disparities. Over time, Ferguson’s police and municipal court practices have sown deep mistrust between parts of the community and the police department, undermining law enforcement legitimacy among African Americans in particular.

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf

On that same day, a federal court approved former Attorney General Peter Harvey and a panel of experts he formed to serve as an independent monitor for the settlement reached by the Department of Justice and the city of Newark. The settlement is intended to bring wide-ranging reforms and changes to the Newark Police Department.

In a very real sense, this consent decree followed at least 49 years of consistent calls by Newark residents for real police reform.

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. penned his last book, Where Do We Go From Here, the same year as the 1967 Newark rebellion. In it, King posits that, given the challenges, we have only two options: to embrace chaos or community.

Consistent with King’s vision for the beloved community, the New Jersey Institute for Social Institute launched New Jersey Communities Forward, a cutting-edge initiative that seeks to empower stronger, safer communities through facilitated community forums and trainings with law enforcement.

This report sets out the DOJ’s investigative findings. In sum, and as discussed further

below, this investigation showed a pattern or practice of constitutional violations in the NPD’s stop and arrest practices, its response to individuals’ exercise of their rights under the First Amendment, the Department’s use of force, and theft by officers. The investigation also revealed deficiencies in the NPD’s systems that are designed to prevent and detect misconduct, including its systems for reviewing force and investigating complaints regarding officer conduct. The investigation also identified concerns that do not appear to amount to patterns of constitutional misconduct, but which nonetheless are significant and warrant consideration by the NPD. These concerns relate to the NPD’s practices in dealing with potentially suicidal detainees, the NPD’s sexual assault investigations, and the impact of the NPD’s policing on the LGBT community.

The City of Newark is diminished, and the NPD rendered less effective, by these patterns and practices of unconstitutional conduct. The NPD’s policing practices have eroded the community’s trust, and the perception of the NPD as an agency with insufficient accountability has undermined the confidence of other Newark criminal justice stakeholders as well. Fixing the problems this investigation identified will not only make Newark a more equitable community, but also a safer one. As the NPD stated in its Transparency Policy, General Order 2013-03, “t is a fundamental principle that the public’s trust and cooperation is essential to the Newark Police Department’s effectiveness . . . . The Department cannot prevent future crimes without commitment and cooperation from the community . . . .”

 

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/crt/legacy/2014/07/22/newark_findings_7-22-14.pdf

 

 

 

Last year, we reported on the story of Joe Crystal, a former detective in the Baltimore Police Department who had informed on officers after witnessing them brutalizing a suspect. Crystal said the consequences were severe: He was harassed, moved to night shifts and denied requests for backup while on duty. A dead rat once mysteriously appeared on the windshield of his car. Crystal eventually left the force, and has since filed a lawsuit over his treatment.

 

 

 

While this code of silence is commonly understood in law enforcement communities, police officials rarely admit to it publicly. Many of them deny that it exists, instead suggesting that the problems in their ranks are limited to a few “bad apples.” They claim that the vast majority of officers are not only good, but also intolerant of misconduct by their peers.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/san-francisco-police-snitch_us_57349f17e4b060aa78197d54

 

 

 

 

But crime statistics seem to validate Brown’s work. In 2014, Dallas had its lowest murder rate since 1930. Overall crime decreased by 4.5 percent last year while violent crime dropped at a similar clip. There have been ups and downs, including a dramatic uptick in murders this year, but the trend line appears to hold true: Dallas is a less violent city than it was five years ago.

 

 

Some point out that police reform may not be responsible for plummeting crime rates. But, at the very least, Dallas police appear to have cleaned up their act. Excessive force complaints against the department dropped by 64 percent over a five-year period. Arrests are decreasing by the thousands each year.

 

“So far this year, in 2016, we have had four excessive force complaints. We’ve averaged between 150 and 200 my whole 33-year career. So this is transformative,” Brown told a crowd of his fellow officers and policymakers at the White House in April. His department is a member of President Obama’s Police Data Initiative. “And we’ve averaged between 18 and 25 police involved shootings my whole career. We’ve had two so far this year.”

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/dallas-police/490583/

 

 

 

 

The 190-page task force report detailed long-standing problems with the department — including systemic racial bias and inadequate training — and recommended sweeping changes. Kirkpatrick will be tasked not only with implementing those task force reforms but also with taking on whatever findings the Justice Department reaches in coming months.


"The department has to demonstrate to its members and to the public that it is very serious about accountability and, beyond accountability, dealing with the realities and the stress of the job that officers face on a day to day basis," said Lori Lightfoot, who led the task force. "That is something they have to get their arms around."

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-police-reform-appointment-met-20160607-story.html

 

 

 

 

The city of Waukegan is near reaching an agreement with the U.S. Department of Justice on a set of recommendations to reform its police department, according to Mayor Wayne Motley. The five-year agreement, reached after seven months of "intense meetings" with not just federal officials but groups like the NAACP and the Latino Advisory Committee, includes a "long list of things we intend to change," Motley said Tuesday.


"It was a give-and-take proposition," he said.

The announcement came just two days before five police officers were fatally shot in Dallas during protests over the fatal police shootings of two black men in Minnesota and Louisiana.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lake-county-news-sun/news/ct-lns-waukegan-department-justice-police-reform-st-0709-20160708-story.html

 

 

 

After engaging in a thorough investigation, initiated at

the request of the City of Baltimore and BPD, the Department of Justice concludes that there is

reasonable cause to believe that BPD engages in a pattern or practice of conduct that violates the

Constitution or federal law. BPD engages in a pattern or practice of:

(1) making unconstitutional stops, searches, and arrests;

(2) using enforcement strategies that produce severe and unjustified disparities in the rates of

stops, searches and arrests of African Americans;

(3) using excessive force; and

(4) retaliating against people engaging in constitutionally-protected expression.

This pattern or practice is driven by systemic deficiencies in BPD’s policies, training,

supervision, and accountability structures that fail to equip officers with the tools they need to police

effectively and within the bounds of the federal law.

 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/883366/download

 

[GBRHouston]

Nobody is saying all cops are bad. We know the majority do a great job. But those who don't need to be held accountable.

Good. I can work with this.

Are you sure? Because you just said...

There isn't any law enforcement reforming to do!

In which case, you would be wrong.

I love how you work specifically to shoot down my points, which are 100% valid. We can't agree to disagree like I have done with many people in this thread.

When I responded to Jim saying I could work with it, I did not mean I agreed. I meant I can form a decent, respectful argument against it. If you hadn't deleted what I said after that, it would have made more sense.

It is common sense that police shouldn't be harsh. And guess what? The only possible changes are already done. They were done well before the protests started.