Russia

[Guy Chamberlin]

I don’t follow this war as close as others seem to do, but everything I’ve EVER heard is that Ukraine/NATO membership possibility helped start the war (that wasn’t everything I know)
 

Everything? EVER? 

In not following this war closely did you ever hear that Ukraine was interested in NATO membership because it feared Russia would do something aggressive, dangerous, and against Europe's best interest, like invade and takeover Ukraine? Something the pre-war Archy1221 would have dismissed as libtard fear-mongering? (parenthetical excuses don't really cover for ALL CAP stupidities)  

 

[Scarlet]

Everything? EVER? 

In not following this war closely did you ever hear that Ukraine was interested in NATO membership because it feared Russia would do something aggressive, dangerous, and against Europe's best interest, like invade and takeover Ukraine? Something the pre-war Archy1221 would have dismissed as libtard fear-mongering? (parenthetical excuses don't really cover for ALL CAP stupidities)  

You know the Putin propaganda is being swallowed whole hog when the NATO expansionism into Ukraine is blamed for Russia's illegal murderous campaign of terror.  It's just more victim blaming.  

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/russias-invasion-of-ukraine-was-never-about-nato/

"Russia’s remarkably relaxed reaction to the NATO accession of Finland and Sweden stands in stark contrast to the hysteria over Ukraine’s far less substantial ties to the military alliance. In the months leading up to Russia’s February 2022 full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Putin and other Kremlin leaders told the world that the escalating crisis was due to years of provocative NATO expansion, while warning that deepening ties between the Alliance and Ukraine represented a red line. In reality, however, Ukraine in early 2022 was not even remotely close to joining NATO.Far from pursuing Ukraine, the Alliance had repeatedly sidestepped appeals from Kyiv for a Membership Action Plan, refusing to offer even a clear signal regarding future accession. On the eve of Russia’s invasion, the most optimistic forecasts indicated that Ukraine’s dream of joining NATO was still decades away."

"It is hard to see any military logic behind the dramatically different Russian reactions to NATO’s Nordic enlargement and the Alliance’s involvement in Ukraine. After all, while a theoretical future NATO presence inside Ukraine could pose a range of major headaches for military planners in Moscow, the recent accession of Finland has already doubled the length of Russia’s shared border with the Alliance overnight. Swedish membership will arguably be even more consequential for Russia, transforming the Baltic Sea into a NATO lake. If Russia is so apparently unconcerned by these very real military challenges, why was Putin prepared to launch the biggest European war since World War II over the far more distant prospect of Ukrainian NATO membership?'

"It is clear from Putin’s own actions that he understands perfectly well NATO will never attack Russia. This should come as no surprise. Indeed, the entire notion of NATO invading Russia is recognized as absurd by all but the terminally swivel-eyed. This does not mean Russian objections to NATO’s post-1991 enlargement are entirely insincere; on the contrary, the growing presence of the Alliance in the former Eastern Bloc over the past thirty years is perhaps the leading source of geopolitical bitterness and resentment throughout the Russian establishment. However, it is critical to clarify that this indignation has nothing to do with legitimate security concerns. NATO is not a threat to Russian security; NATO is a threat to Russian foreign policy because it prevents Russia from bullying its neighbors. In other words, NATO enlargement is no more or less provocative than a burglar alarm is to a thief."

 

[BigRedBuster]

don’t follow this war as close as others seem to do, but everything I’ve EVER heard is that Ukraine/NATO membership possibility helped start the war (that wasn’t everything I know) and Russia would never agree to a ceasefire deal that allowed Ukraine NATO membership. And I don’t think Russia would give up much in exchange for no NATO membership for Ukraine as Russia assumes that ain’t happening anyways.

Walk me through this. 
 

let’s say Putin didn’t have a desire to attack Ukraine. 
 

Why is it then our fault that he attacked because they wanted to join NATO?

 

[Archy1221]

In not following this war closely did you ever hear that Ukraine was interested in NATO membership because it feared Russia would do something aggressive, dangerous, and against Europe's best interest, like invade and takeover Ukraine?

Yes, especially once Biden took over.   Glad we cleared that up. 
 

Did you ever hear that Russia did not want Ukraine membership in NATO.  Anthony Blinken was telling folks privately that Ukraine would not be getting NATO membership, yet he wouldn’t say it publicly and people who follow this stuff much more closely than I feel that was a mistake that could have prevented this war.  Glad we cleared that up 

Something the pre-war Archy1221 would have dismissed as libtard fear-mongering? (parenthetical excuses don't really cover for ALL CAP stupidities)  

Not really, because Russia already invaded the previous time a Democrat was in office 

Glad we could clear that one up too!   

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Yes, especially once Biden took over.   Glad we cleared that up. 
 

Did you ever hear that Russia did not want Ukraine membership in NATO.  Anthony Blinken was telling folks privately that Ukraine would not be getting NATO membership, yet he wouldn’t say it publicly and people who follow this stuff much more closely than I feel that was a mistake that could have prevented this war.  Glad we cleared that up 

Not really, because Russia already invaded the previous time a Democrat was in office 

Glad we could clear that one up too!   

None of this makes any sense. 

Go back up and answer Big Red Buster's question. Then the question I asked a couple days ago:  if Biden's actions were the mistake, wouldn't the corrective be for Trump to get tougher on Russia? 

And how is invading Ukraine the logical response for a country that simply didn't want Ukraine to join NATO? How would Anthony Blinken telling the world Ukraine wasn't likely to join NATO prevent the war? Do you honestly think Putin would takeover Ukraine to protect Russia? Can you think of better reason? Cause the rest of the world can.

Man, my Facebook feed is suddenly teeming with Trump supporters coming up with the wackiest blame scenarios for everything that's going wrong. 

 

[teachercd]

None of this makes any sense. 

Go back up and answer Big Red Buster's question. Then the question I asked a couple days ago:  if Biden's actions were the mistake, wouldn't the corrective be for Trump to get tougher on Russia? 

And how is invading Ukraine the logical response for a country that simply didn't want Ukraine to join NATO? How would Anthony Blinken telling the world Ukraine wasn't likely to join NATO prevent the war? Do you honestly think Putin would takeover Ukraine to protect Russia? Can you think of better reason? Cause the rest of the world can.

Man, my Facebook feed is suddenly teeming with Trump supporters coming up with the wackiest blame scenarios for everything that's going wrong. 

Why do you still use Facebook?  Like, unless it is for Marketplace, why do you use it?   It is horrible.  

I have it only for Marketplace.  No feed, no nothing.

 

[Danny Bateman]

I don’t know how we get there, but at some point I think it’s going to come out that he had his finger on the scale behind the scenes and pulled some s#!t that helped Russia. Here’s hoping they deport him for it.

Let’s hope someone in the free press grows a spine and connects the dots.

Quoting myself from the economy thread so I don’t derail that thread.

Didn’t take that long.

WSJ reporting Musk having regular contact with Putin over the past two years, asked by Putin not to activate Starlink over Taiwan as a favor to Xi.

Aside from the obvious corruption implications, Elon is a legitimate national security threat.

Edit: Full disclosure - I was duped thinking this was a new development. Article is from October 2024.

 

[Mierin]

Quoting myself from the economy thread so I don’t derail that thread.

Didn’t take that long.

WSJ reporting Musk having regular contact with Putin over the past two years, asked by Putin not to activate Starlink over Taiwan as a favor to Xi.

Aside from the obvious corruption implications, Elon is a legitimate national security threat.

Edit: Full disclosure - I was duped thinking this was a new development. Article is from October 2024.

It's downright hilarious that the people who prefer nationalism and isolationism are okay with Musk being given so much power.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Why do you still use Facebook?  Like, unless it is for Marketplace, why do you use it?   It is horrible.  

I have it only for Marketplace.  No feed, no nothing.

I know you young folks like to hang out on Snapgram or whatever, but many of us of a certain age still gather on Facebook. As much as I think I hate it, I really have reconnected with some great folks. And also discovered some dear friends have gone to the dark side.  

 

[knapplc]

A ceasefire? I'm intrigued.

https://bsky.app/profile/yasharali.bsky.social/post/3lk4pmipcnc23

 

[JJ Husker]

If I was Z/Ukraine, I wouldn’t trust US intelligence any further than I could throw Trump. Besides that, US intelligence is no better than an oxymoron at this point. I’ll believe this deal when it proves out to not be lopsided in russia’s favor.

 

[Scarlet]

If I was Z/Ukraine, I wouldn’t trust US intelligence any further than I could throw Trump. Besides that, US intelligence is no better than an oxymoron at this point. I’ll believe this deal when it proves out to not be lopsided in russia’s favor.

Russia will break any ceasefire within a month tops and they, along with their besties, will blame Zelensky violating some condition of the deal.  

 

[TGHusker]

 

[BigRedBuster]

Hey....tough guy cheto.....what ya going to do now?


I know.....he'll figure out how to blame Ukraine.  

 

[funhusker]

Hey....tough guy cheto.....what ya going to do now?


I know.....he'll figure out how to blame Ukraine.  

Why on Earth would Putin want a cease fire to allow Ukraine to build up it's forces and stockpiles?!?  Everyone knows Ukraine is just waiting for the right time to take Moscow!