Sam Keller's lawsuit against EA/NCAA

[StPaulHusker]

So why can't they continue to make NCAA football games and just not use players likeness. instead they could just use randomly generated players and then go from there

Because that is logic. And we can't use that when discussing video games.

 

[HuskerNBigD]

So why can't they continue to make NCAA football games and just not use players likeness. instead they could just use randomly generated players and then go from there

Loved the game but maybe EA should have just made rosters without actual players. Although they were getting bad at making improvements to the game anyways.

The conferences pulled their licences. So no actual venue, or color scheme could have been used. It would not be worth the dev cost at that point.

The answer to your question was mentioned by strigori earlier in the thread. EA could've got away with randomly generated rosters, but the second you're taking away team names, logos, stadiums - who would buy that?

 

[Blackshirt39]

Electronic Arts has settled with the plaintiffs of the Keller suit for $40 million in damages, paying money it owed college athletes for illegally using their likenesses in its college football and basketball video games. However, O'Bannon lawsuit plaintiffs claim in a recent court filing that they will present at trial evidence that EA wanted to pay the players, even though the NCAA wouldn't allow it, due to its amateurism rules.

The (plaintiffs) will present documentary evidence and testimony from Joel Linzner of EA at trial that while EA abided by the prohibition on paying college athletes for the use of their (likeness) in NCAA-lisenced videogames, it nonetheless wanted to obtain the rights for more precise likenesses and the names of every college athlete on each roster, for which EA was willing to pay more to the NCAA and the college athletes themselves.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/6/4/5779102/ea-sports-ncaa-lawsuit-pay-players

This was all said after they killed the game series and EA has absolutely no credibility here. It's a PR spin to make themselves look good in the consumer's eye. It all could have been avoided with a randomly generated roster and they knew that. EA is to blame for the game being killed off. They used player likenesses without permission (Likeness != name). All there is to it.

And before people defend EA, let's take a look at they've done to these companies: Maxis, Mythic, Origin, Westwood, Dreamworks Interactive, Phenomic, Black Box Games, Pandemic, Playfish, and NuFX. EA is not a company that gets to claim moral high ground on anything.

Also let's remember what they did with the NCAA football series:

- Inaccurate gameplay

- Jersey microtransactions

- Pulled features out of previous gen games to introduce as new features in next gen platforms. Essentially never really updating the game.

- Terrible patching service.

- Yearly release schedule led to incomplete/glitchy games.

- Horrible physics engine.

Did you even read the article? It was the plaintiffs (Keller and his attorneys) that brought this information to court, not the defendants (EA & NCAA).... Nobody had ever heard this before they brought it out.

You need to know how EA works dude. The testimony from one man after they got caught was probably a lie. EA has no interest in sharing revenue with anyone.

I know exactly how EA works. I've been playing their games since Wing Commander. They did what the NCAA allowed them too, and there's no doubt in my mind that they tried to extend the license. According to the guys on Operation sports and Gaming Tailgate, they had tried this as far back as 2009/2010. It would boost sales, and would be phenomenal for marketing.

Except they used player likenesses without permission. And yeah the NCAA didn't do anything about, but then when a few of the athletes lawyer up it's the athletes fault the game dies? I don't think so. The finger here points solely at EA. Randomly generated rosters with the ability to edit and share among users, which is in the game, and we are talking about what NCAA 16 has in it this year. EA milked the franchise for every last penny they could knowing full well what they were doing. They just took it as an opportunity to cash out.

Also if you liked Wing Commander, check out Star Citizen. Developed by the same guy.

 

[Blackshirt39]

So why can't they continue to make NCAA football games and just not use players likeness. instead they could just use randomly generated players and then go from there

Loved the game but maybe EA should have just made rosters without actual players. Although they were getting bad at making improvements to the game anyways.

The conferences pulled their licences. So no actual venue, or color scheme could have been used. It would not be worth the dev cost at that point.

The answer to your question was mentioned by strigori earlier in the thread. EA could've got away with randomly generated rosters, but the second you're taking away team names, logos, stadiums - who would buy that?

Well EA still held a CLC license after a settlement, so I'm not sure what they were entitled to use and not use. What can and can't be used with the CLC is very confusing.

 

[HuskerNBigD]

So why can't they continue to make NCAA football games and just not use players likeness. instead they could just use randomly generated players and then go from there

Loved the game but maybe EA should have just made rosters without actual players. Although they were getting bad at making improvements to the game anyways.

The conferences pulled their licences. So no actual venue, or color scheme could have been used. It would not be worth the dev cost at that point.

The answer to your question was mentioned by strigori earlier in the thread. EA could've got away with randomly generated rosters, but the second you're taking away team names, logos, stadiums - who would buy that?

Well EA still held a CLC license after a settlement, so I'm not sure what they were entitled to use and not use. What can and can't be used with the CLC is very confusing.

Agreed - it is all very confusing. If I remember correctly, the issue and downfall for EA Sports didn't pertain to the CLC but the individual conferences pulling their licensing rights. The SEC, B1G, and PAC-12 decided not to renew their licensing rights in the fall of 2013. Not sure how those intertwine with the CLC but if those three conferences were removed from the game, I doubt many people would purchase it. Its a shame, I grew up looking forward to July when the game was released.

 

[Blackshirt39]

Off topic: I've never understood why a game dev hasn't tried creating just a football sandbox game on pc and letting the modding community fill the content. Sort of like Gary's Mod on Steam. Can't control the way your users play the game right?

 

[zoogs]

I believe that exists, but it's quite old and not very popular. Maybe the market will open up now that NCAA series is gone.

I also feel that's the way it should be done.

With as many "victims" as there were here, they were never going to be compensated very much individually. And they themselves were also never going to change the system.

 

[Saunders]

Except they used player likenesses without permission. And yeah the NCAA didn't do anything about, but then when a few of the athletes lawyer up it's the athletes fault the game dies? I don't think so. The finger here points solely at EA. Randomly generated rosters with the ability to edit and share among users, which is in the game, and we are talking about what NCAA 16 has in it this year. EA milked the franchise for every last penny they could knowing full well what they were doing. They just took it as an opportunity to cash out.

Also if you liked Wing Commander, check out Star Citizen. Developed by the same guy.

That depends entirely on what the definition of a "likeness" is. In video work, if you can't recognize a person's face, it doesn't matter. As a former Operation Sports guy/roster editor for NCAA, I can tell you that from a height, weight, number, and skin tone aspect, EA was batting maybe 20%. When you combine that with the fact that not a single one of the character models actually looked like their real life counterparts, it's baffling. In fact, if you were to take the number off the player (and they don't always get those right), I bet most people could guess maybe on player on the entire roster. This reeks of the same type of case as Lindsay Lohan suing Rockstar over the GTA cover girl.

As for Star Citizen, I'm waiting until there's an actual game to play before spending $300 on imaginary spaceships. Chris hasn't made anything in a long time...

 

[StPaulHusker]

Except they used player likenesses without permission. And yeah the NCAA didn't do anything about, but then when a few of the athletes lawyer up it's the athletes fault the game dies? I don't think so. The finger here points solely at EA. Randomly generated rosters with the ability to edit and share among users, which is in the game, and we are talking about what NCAA 16 has in it this year. EA milked the franchise for every last penny they could knowing full well what they were doing. They just took it as an opportunity to cash out.

Also if you liked Wing Commander, check out Star Citizen. Developed by the same guy.

That depends entirely on what the definition of a "likeness" is. In video work, if you can't recognize a person's face, it doesn't matter. As a former Operation Sports guy/roster editor for NCAA, I can tell you that from a height, weight, number, and skin tone aspect, EA was batting maybe 20%. When you combine that with the fact that not a single one of the character models actually looked like their real life counterparts, it's baffling. In fact, if you were to take the number off the player (and they don't always get those right), I bet most people could guess maybe on player on the entire roster. This reeks of the same type of case as Lindsay Lohan suing Rockstar over the GTA cover girl.

As for Star Citizen, I'm waiting until there's an actual game to play before spending $300 on imaginary spaceships. Chris hasn't made anything in a long time...

EA sports was claiming they were using likenesses of about 25% of the players on a team. So they were probably 100% on those players and hit or miss on the others dropping the average down.

 

[BigRedBuster]

It's a friggen game. Good Lord. Some people are pissed at this like it greatly affected their happiness.

Sam has ever right to make claims on his likeness however he sees fit. EA was cashing in on all this without paying a dime for what they were using. They were told to cut it out. Big deal.

 

[Saunders]

It's a friggen game. Good Lord. Some people are pissed at this like it greatly affected their happiness.

Sam has ever right to make claims on his likeness however he sees fit. EA was cashing in on all this without paying a dime for what they were using. They were told to cut it out. Big deal.

I am, and it did. It's one of my favorite franchises and was a great way to pass the offseason.

EA wanted to pay to actually use the players real likeness (like their face and name) not just a generic representation. The NCAA didn't want to open pandoras box (like paying players) and it bit them in the a$$. Pre-season magazines and stuff like Sports illustrated are next. They'll go after TV in 5 years when the next round of TV rights gets into full swing. After all, they use actual player images, not a generic representation.

 

[BigRedBuster]

It's a friggen game. Good Lord. Some people are pissed at this like it greatly affected their happiness.

Sam has ever right to make claims on his likeness however he sees fit. EA was cashing in on all this without paying a dime for what they were using. They were told to cut it out. Big deal.

I am, and it did. It's one of my favorite franchises and was a great way to pass the offseason.

EA wanted to pay to actually use the players real likeness (like their face and name) not just a generic representation. The NCAA didn't want to open pandoras box (like paying players) and it bit them in the a$$. Pre-season magazines and stuff like Sports illustrated are next. They'll go after TV in 5 years when the next round of TV rights gets into full swing. After all, they use actual player images, not a generic representation.

Very very different situations when you are talking about TV showing a game they are playing in and a company taking their likeness and doing something totally different with it and making millions.

It's a friggen game. Find something else to do.

 

[Saunders]

It's a friggen game. Good Lord. Some people are pissed at this like it greatly affected their happiness.

Sam has ever right to make claims on his likeness however he sees fit. EA was cashing in on all this without paying a dime for what they were using. They were told to cut it out. Big deal.

I am, and it did. It's one of my favorite franchises and was a great way to pass the offseason.

EA wanted to pay to actually use the players real likeness (like their face and name) not just a generic representation. The NCAA didn't want to open pandoras box (like paying players) and it bit them in the a$$. Pre-season magazines and stuff like Sports illustrated are next. They'll go after TV in 5 years when the next round of TV rights gets into full swing. After all, they use actual player images, not a generic representation.

Very very different situations when you are talking about TV showing a game they are playing in and a company taking their likeness and doing something totally different with it and making millions.

It's a friggen game. Find something else to do.

Please tell me how ESPN selling advertising (or charging cable fees) for Gameday, or the CFB playoff (making 100x what EA did) and showing the players actual pictures and acts on the field... is less relevant than EA using a character model that doesn't even look like the actual players.

As for your last statement, it's something I (and millions of others, including the players themselves) enjoy. I have found something else to do, that doesn't mean I can't voice my displeasure in how it was handled.

 

[Husker_luver]

Except they used player likenesses without permission. And yeah the NCAA didn't do anything about, but then when a few of the athletes lawyer up it's the athletes fault the game dies? I don't think so. The finger here points solely at EA. Randomly generated rosters with the ability to edit and share among users, which is in the game, and we are talking about what NCAA 16 has in it this year. EA milked the franchise for every last penny they could knowing full well what they were doing. They just took it as an opportunity to cash out.

Also if you liked Wing Commander, check out Star Citizen. Developed by the same guy.

That depends entirely on what the definition of a "likeness" is. In video work, if you can't recognize a person's face, it doesn't matter. As a former Operation Sports guy/roster editor for NCAA, I can tell you that from a height, weight, number, and skin tone aspect, EA was batting maybe 20%. When you combine that with the fact that not a single one of the character models actually looked like their real life counterparts, it's baffling. In fact, if you were to take the number off the player (and they don't always get those right), I bet most people could guess maybe on player on the entire roster. This reeks of the same type of case as Lindsay Lohan suing Rockstar over the GTA cover girl.
As for Star Citizen, I'm waiting until there's an actual game to play before spending $300 on imaginary spaceships. Chris hasn't made anything in a long time...

I have a hard time believing your 20% number. I would go through and name Nebraska's entire roster plus other top rated players and recruits every year and wait for someone to finish a full roster. I'd say at minimum, 90ish% of our roster was easy to know who it was supposed to be. Most height was within an inch or 2 if not exact and weight 5-10lbs off if not exact. Heck, recruits were from the same state as their real life counter part. EA doesn't hold some morale high ground here.

 

[Saunders]

Except they used player likenesses without permission. And yeah the NCAA didn't do anything about, but then when a few of the athletes lawyer up it's the athletes fault the game dies? I don't think so. The finger here points solely at EA. Randomly generated rosters with the ability to edit and share among users, which is in the game, and we are talking about what NCAA 16 has in it this year. EA milked the franchise for every last penny they could knowing full well what they were doing. They just took it as an opportunity to cash out.

Also if you liked Wing Commander, check out Star Citizen. Developed by the same guy.

That depends entirely on what the definition of a "likeness" is. In video work, if you can't recognize a person's face, it doesn't matter. As a former Operation Sports guy/roster editor for NCAA, I can tell you that from a height, weight, number, and skin tone aspect, EA was batting maybe 20%. When you combine that with the fact that not a single one of the character models actually looked like their real life counterparts, it's baffling. In fact, if you were to take the number off the player (and they don't always get those right), I bet most people could guess maybe on player on the entire roster. This reeks of the same type of case as Lindsay Lohan suing Rockstar over the GTA cover girl.
As for Star Citizen, I'm waiting until there's an actual game to play before spending $300 on imaginary spaceships. Chris hasn't made anything in a long time...

I have a hard time believing your 20% number. I would go through and name Nebraska's entire roster plus other top rated players and recruits every year and wait for someone to finish a full roster. I'd say at minimum, 90ish% of our roster was easy to know who it was supposed to be. Most height was within an inch or 2 if not exact and weight 5-10lbs off if not exact. Heck, recruits were from the same state as their real life counter part. EA doesn't hold some morale high ground here.

As a hardcore fan, we could figure it out just with positions and numbers. That doesn't make a likeness.