Screens are an endangered species in our playbook

beanman said:
accountability said:
Screens are overrated. So are draws. It's a different game. The combination of speed and evolved schemes of defenses just dont allow for these things to be consistently effective. Whenever our offense struggles, all we here is "more screens and draws derpa derpa". No. Case in point. Each team ran a screen today. Each one was nearly a pick 6? Why? Becuase defenses read them. When the oline is letting the entire dline go, they no somethings up. Gholston and Compton both hold up and nearly come up with turnovers. There's your screen pass.
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You must not have seen what Bama did to beat LSU
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Bingo. And not to get too far removed from college football, but the Saints made a living on offense out of screen passes to Pierre Thomas. That was a big yardage play for them the year they won the Super Bowl and Thomas got several TDs from screen passes.

 
Maxconvert said:
What is your point?
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Point is Martinez often makes questionable decisions. Use the WR screen game more often to give him an easy, high-percentage pass while at the same time getting the ball to our most athletic players and make the opposing pass rush think twice about how fast they rush the QB on future plays.
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Those questionable decisions facilitate the need for Martinez to keep throwing the ball down field. A short pass that is too high turns into six in hurry. A tipped ball at the line of scrimmage turns into six in a hurry. Telegraphing a WR screen in the flat turns into six in a hurry.

You're playing 'Brock Huard' commentary and we're not operating in a bubble. We know what we have and we need to continue to use that. Screens and quick passes play directly into Martinez's weaknesses (pressure and quick decisions).

Here's the Beck talking points (for the Huskerboard OC's)

  1. We need more diamond. (2011)
  2. Why are we throwing on first down.
  3. Why do we get away from what works? We should be able to run the same play for 4 yards for four quarters.
  4. **New** Where is the screen pass?

 
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beanman said:
accountability said:
Screens are overrated. So are draws. It's a different game. The combination of speed and evolved schemes of defenses just dont allow for these things to be consistently effective. Whenever our offense struggles, all we here is "more screens and draws derpa derpa". No. Case in point. Each team ran a screen today. Each one was nearly a pick 6? Why? Becuase defenses read them. When the oline is letting the entire dline go, they no somethings up. Gholston and Compton both hold up and nearly come up with turnovers. There's your screen pass.
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You must not have seen what Bama did to beat LSU
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Yes I saw it. It was already discussed. The two lineman didnt touch a soul. The success of that play was purely a result of a passive prevent D. It is a moot play to this discussion, in my opinion.

I have already conceded that some screens could be effective. But as timing plays, if they are not worked on extensively, are not effective. Which is probably why we dont use them. Our offense is plenty effective without them, but I guess it could be that much better. Bottome line is, both teams tried to run a screen pass yesterday, and both almost wound up in pick 6's. Maxconvert is also right on his behalf, that yes, there are many variations to the "screen" pass.

I just happen to believe they are a bit overrated. Every night on sports nightly, multiple callers call in demanding more screens and draws. And if we did run'em, it would be too many. It's just a speculative opinion that I happen to not agree with.

As far as tremendous athletes and skill at WR, I just happen to feel that they are utilized better downfield stretching the defense as we do.

We have too many playmakers on Offense. It's a good problem to have, but it's always going to lead to these kind of disagreements because no matter what we do offensively, there's always gonna be another aspect that is shorted, thus bringing out the supporters of that particular aspect, in this case, screens.

There, I think I pretty much re-summed up previous discussion?

 
I am a fan of the idea of running the screens for the Wrs we have versus the RBs. Getting the ball quickly into the hands of Turner or Bell with the human wrecking ball Enunwa out in front could be an easy 7 yards a clip. The jail break screen could be huge as well. The other thing with these types of parts is they are generally high percentage throws. Taylor probably could make them an adventure though, but are ready enough for him to get some rhythm going.

Screens to the rb are all about timing. A per the Bama game last night. The linemen had no one to block because they caught lay in a blitz. Perfect timing.

 
Those questionable decisions facilitate the need for Martinez to keep throwing the ball down field. A short pass that is too high turns into six in hurry. A tipped ball at the line of scrimmage turns into six in a hurry. Telegraphing a WR screen in the flat turns into six in a hurry.
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So your point is that the risk that a defensive lineman would tip a quick WR screen pass, or a CB would make a break on the ball and intercept it? Those are both possible in theory, but almost never happen when you watch teams that use these plays frequently. First of all, the pass is basically a snap to the QB who is already several yards behind the LOS in the pistol or shotgun. He just catches the ball then throws on a line to the WR, who has stepped back to catch the ball. So you can see that a tipped ball at the line in that circumstance is incredibly difficult--if Nebraska ever ends up playing the Chicago Bears, then I would worry about it.

Secondly, you're incredibly downplaying the risk of Taylor throwing an INT during those downfield throws. In fact almost all of Martinez's interceptions this year have come from attempted downfield passes, not short passes/flat passes/WR screens. That's my point, Taylor isn't Drew Brees or Manning back there, his strength not reading a coverage and efficiently going through his progressions to make an accurate pass.

 
gobiggergoredder said:
Maxconvert said:
What is your point?
Click to expand...
Point is Martinez often makes questionable decisions. Use the WR screen game more often to give him an easy, high-percentage pass while at the same time getting the ball to our most athletic players and make the opposing pass rush think twice about how fast they rush the QB on future plays.
Click to expand...
Those questionable decisions facilitate the need for Martinez to keep throwing the ball down field. A short pass that is too high turns into six in hurry. A tipped ball at the line of scrimmage turns into six in a hurry. Telegraphing a WR screen in the flat turns into six in a hurry.

You're playing 'Brock Huard' commentary and we're not operating in a bubble. We know what we have and we need to continue to use that. Screens and quick passes play directly into Martinez's weaknesses (pressure and quick decisions).

Here's the Beck talking points (for the Huskerboard OC's)

  1. We need more diamond. (2011)
  2. Why are we throwing on first down.
  3. Why do we get away from what works? We should be able to run the same play for 4 yards for four quarters.
  4. **New** Where is the screen pass?
Click to expand...
I agree and just wanted to share my 2 cents worth

1.There's a reason the diamond works so well, it's because we don't run it all the time.

2. I think Beck does a good job of running and passing on first downs but, I know some of HB watches a different game than some of us.

3. Beck tries to keep the defense off balance and if the run works and you keep running it the defense is going to figure it our rather quickly and blow a play up.

4. We didn't see screens yesterday because MSU was mainly running man to man defense and that makes if even harder to execute a screen pass.

 
I try to convince myself that Beck makes the right decision of going away from what is working BEFORE the defense makes the adjustment to blow the play up for a loss or turnover. It's hopeful, but I know that sunshine pumping logic will never hold water to the sharks in this pond.

 
I find a lot of play calling nitpicking to be silly.

We don't find a problems with the play calls when they work. It's the execution that counts. We opened the game with a pass. The pass was dropped, which kept us off schedule. If it was caught, we're looking at a different situation. The play call wasn't the problem, it was the execution. If we would have run the ball, and it was stuffed for a 2 yard loss, would that have also been the wrong play call?

We don't know why these guys call certain plays, we don't know the intricacies of the defenses they're facing nearly to the extent they do.

If you want to complain about the coordinator, complain that he's not preparing them to execute the plays at a satisfactory level, but I find it hard to believe you know more about what plays we should be running against certain defensive looks than the guy who is coordinating the top offense in his conference.

 
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i would like to see more quick passes to our playmakers as well, with that said i am not going to complain about 400+ yards on a great defense..GBR

 
LSU was not in a prevent defense. They ran a zone blitz with six men at the LOS. Screen plays are not going away, but you nailed it about the practice reps. When you don't focus on them in practice they look ugly when you try them in a game. But you also have to call them in the right situation. I think it was third and really long when we tried ours. Not really an ideal situation.

 
The Dude said:
We don't find a problems with the play calls when they work. It's the execution that counts. We opened the game with a pass. The pass was dropped, which kept us off schedule.
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If the pass was caught, he's tackled at the line of scrimmage.

 
PaulCrewe said:
I am a fan of the idea of running the screens for the Wrs we have versus the RBs. Getting the ball quickly into the hands of Turner or Bell with the human wrecking ball Enunwa out in front could be an easy 7 yards a clip. The jail break screen could be huge as well. The other thing with these types of parts is they are generally high percentage throws. Taylor probably could make them an adventure though, but are ready enough for him to get some rhythm going.

Screens to the rb are all about timing. A per the Bama game last night. The linemen had no one to block because they caught lay in a blitz. Perfect timing.
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Yeah, that's a good point. Get them to the outside quickly and let those guys get the YAC. I think that'd be very effective. Those inside RB screens I don't see any evidence of the team executing well.

 
The Dude said:
I find a lot of play calling nitpicking to be silly.

We don't find a problems with the play calls when they work. It's the execution that counts. We opened the game with a pass. The pass was dropped, which kept us off schedule. If it was caught, we're looking at a different situation. The play call wasn't the problem, it was the execution. If we would have run the ball, and it was stuffed for a 2 yard loss, would that have also been the wrong play call?

We don't know why these guys call certain plays, we don't know the intricacies of the defenses they're facing nearly to the extent they do.

If you want to complain about the coordinator, complain that he's not preparing them to execute the plays at a satisfactory level, but I find it hard to believe you know more about what plays we should be running against certain defensive looks than the guy who is coordinating the top offense in his conference.
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Nailed it.

 
This is really quite simple, we simply are not as good at this type of play as we are others.

Many other posters hit the nail on the head here with their explanation. With the way we run the ball, most teams have several people in the box on non-obvious throwing downs. That, obviously, makes throwing a screen much harder to do as you are hoping for more room for the player to navigate through. A pass in the middle of the zone is a better option as the LB are sucked in and the corners/safeties are worried about the run. We almost always face 2 Deep Man Under because of our spread/run offense.

The pass to Reed at the end of the game on 4th down is a perfect example. MSU's players were so afraid of Martinez just scrambling for the 1st that the CB crept up way too far and their safeties were very deep to not get beat over the top. Dump it in this large void to Reed for 35+ yds, better than a screen.

Not to mention Martinez's low release point makes a screen pass very difficult for him to judge trajectory. He is just simply not very good at this type of throw. He is, however, good at throwing into the middle/mid-sideline of the field against a 2 Man or 2 Zone in the void.

 
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