Star Wars: Episode VIII ***Speculation & Spoilers***

[knapplc]

Watched the movie again on Christmas Day.  No, I did not pay to see it.

Same criticisms as before. It did not get better after a second viewing.  Everyone I've seen it with in person has walked away with the same thoughts I and several others in this thread have expressed.  This is a weird, flawed movie that could have been much better than it was. 

 

[Red Five]

Going to see it again tonight.  This time in IMAX.

Liked it the first time and liked it better after a 2nd viewing.  I picked up a lot of things that I missed the 1st go around (off the top of my head: the jedi texts being aboard the Falcon at the end, Rey holding the broken lightsaber, the kid moving the broom, dialog that was hard to hear the first time).

I love that Rey isn't a Skywalker.  I know many people hate the Kylo Ren character, but I really like it.  I think he has a lot of depth.  He's very conflicted inside and it shows multiple times over the past 2 movies (not shooting Leia, killing Snoke to save Rey, etc).  He finally gets fed up with Snoke's crap (calling him a Vader wannabe, etc) and takes him out.  Yes, he can come across as a petulant child, but that's who he is!  He is not Vader (an ultimate badass), he is his own person, and thats ok!

I still could have done w/o the Leia "Mary Poppins" scene (you can see her take a breath before the explosion).  That would have been a good time to send her on her way (or have her to the Holdo lightspeed thing).  And still not a fan of Fin/Rose going to the casino plot (could have just had them just get aboard the FO ship and cut 20 minutes), although I get why the lesson of why wanted to show it.

I find it funny that people complained about TFA being the same as ANH.  Then TLJ goes in some offshoot direction and people complain that it broke the SW formula.  :shrug:

 

[Enhance]

I find it funny that people complained about TFA being the same as ANH.  Then TLJ goes in some offshoot direction and people complain that it broke the SW formula.  :shrug:

I just think a lot of people have opinions about what Star Wars should or shouldn't be and there's no way to please everyone.

It is fascinating to me though just how differently some people view this, though. Such is human nature.

 

[suh_fan93]

Finally went and saw TLJ. I have a feeling I’ll like it better after a few days and maybe after I watch it again but at this point I am not impressed. There were so many things I didn’t like about it and so few things that I did like. My biggest problem is I just don’t like the Kylo Ren character. It’s not that I don’t like him (that would be a good thing) it’s that he just isn’t a believable bad guy. Anakin/Vader was provided a reason for going bad but Kylo...nothing, no reasoning behind it and he just wasn’t bad a$$ enough. 

For some reason I was thinking about TLJ while I was driving the other day and I was thinking the exact same thing regarding Kylo Ren.  Overall his character for me at least just isn't/wasn't very intimidating at all especially in TLJ.  Heck even General Grievious would have been more fun to watch/intimidating even after he ran away from Obi Wan like a little b!^@h in Revenge of the Sith!  I also wasn't happy that they killed Darth Maul off so early either and imo he would have been much more intimidating as a primary villain had he still been around.  

The more I think back on TLJ I just think to myself how little my desire is to actually go out and see it again.  I probably won't even purchase it initially when it's released on blu ray.  Now we have the Han Solo/Ron Howard produced movie coming up in May which is just right around the corner.        

 

[knapplc]

I love that Rey isn't a Skywalker.

I maintain that this is not true & Kylo lied to Rey.  It makes too much sense for their connection to remain after Snoke's death, and for how easy it was for Snoke to establish that link in the first place. 

I know many people hate the Kylo Ren character

He's not a traditional bad guy, but I think the story is better because of it.  I like how he isn't JUST bad. Nuanced characters are better.

I find it funny that people complained about TFA being the same as ANH.  Then TLJ goes in some offshoot direction and people complain that it broke the SW formula.

I don't think those are the same people. TFA was basically a remake of ANH without actually doing a remake.  Just enough new-ish stuff that it's still technically its own movie.  I understand why they did it, but it didn't need to be done and the movies would have been better if they didn't borrow from the originals.  TLJ borrows heavily from both ESB & ROTJ, and there's just no good reason for it.  Those are legitimate critiques. 

People should expect more from these movies. If they don't, Disney is just going to churn out cookie-cutter films because they'll know the audience will lap up whatever dreck they put out there as long as it has the Star Wars name on it.  Holding them accountable for their errors means better movies. 

Now we have the Han Solo/Ron Howard produced movie coming up in May which is just right around the corner

Really? That soon?  That's awesome. 

 

[suh_fan93]

I maintain that this is not true & Kylo lied to Rey.  It makes too much sense for their connection to remain after Snoke's death, and for how easy it was for Snoke to establish that link in the first place. 

He's not a traditional bad guy, but I think the story is better because of it.  I like how he isn't JUST bad. Nuanced characters are better.

I don't think those are the same people. TFA was basically a remake of ANH without actually doing a remake.  Just enough new-ish stuff that it's still technically its own movie.  I understand why they did it, but it didn't need to be done and the movies would have been better if they didn't borrow from the originals.  TLJ borrows heavily from both ESB & ROTJ, and there's just no good reason for it.  Those are legitimate critiques. 

People should expect more from these movies. If they don't, Disney is just going to churn out cookie-cutter films because they'll know the audience will lap up whatever dreck they put out there as long as it has the Star Wars name on it.  Holding them accountable for their errors means better movies. 

Really? That soon?  That's awesome. 

Yeah I was getting used to the Christmas time/December release dates so this will be (hopefully) something to look forward to without having to wait so long.

 

[JJ Husker]

I just think a lot of people have opinions about what Star Wars should or shouldn't be and there's no way to please everyone.

It is fascinating to me though just how differently some people view this, though. Such is human nature.

Agreed. My son (probably the biggest SW fan in the family) and I didn't care for TLJ but my wife and daughter liked it. Of course my daughter's main inspirations are the cute little fuzzy characters so there is that. Coincidentally, about half way through the movie I said to my son "too much estrogen in this one" and I really think that had a bit to do with it. I can appreciate different approaches and nuanced characters but please make the bad guys bad. Kylo and Snoke both just were not intimidating at all and then with all the non-aggressive Leia and Laura Dern stuff, just didn't appeal to me.

 

[Redux]

I feel the need to stress this point once more.

Had George Lucas not been a total butthead and given us 7, 8 and 9 back in the early to mid 90's I think most people would be pretty much at peace and satisfied with the current trilogy being 10, 11 and 12.  The hate for this movie and TFA stems from simply this: Lucas gave the world an epic trilogy and from the very get go handcuffed himself and what he could do with it by naming his first installment Episode 4.  After Episode 6 came out the world was left with an over 15yr void of no more Star Wars.  When he finally caved and did make new movies, they weren't the same because A) They wete prequels and had new characters  and B) film technology had advanced since Episode 6.  Episode 3 came out in ealry 2000's and we didn't get a new one for almost another 15 years.

So, in a nutshell, blame George Lucas for not giving us the SEQUEL trilogy of Luke, Han and Leia when he had the opportunity.

 

[Redux]

 

[knapplc]

I don't understand this need to explain away all criticism about this movie with excuse after excuse after excuse.

It was a flawed movie made in a ham-handed fashion by a studio with the resources and vision to have done better.  It's as simple as that.

 

[Redux]

I don't understand this need to explain away all criticism about this movie with excuse after excuse after excuse.

It was a flawed movie made in a ham-handed fashion by a studio with the resources and vision to have done better.  It's as simple as that.

The difference between excuse and explination depends on how you choose to receive it.

 

[zoogs]

I don't understand the need to tell people who loved this movie that they are objectively wrong.

Agreed. My son (probably the biggest SW fan in the family) and I didn't care for TLJ but my wife and daughter liked it. Of course my daughter's main inspirations are the cute little fuzzy characters so there is that

I would suggest Rey, Rose, Holdo, and Leia being among the more probable reasons than "the porgs were cute". 

Granted, the porgs were adorable. But they barely had any screen time! 

 

[knapplc]

I don't understand the need to tell people who loved this movie that they are objectively wrong.

If you can find where I've told people they're wrong for liking this movie, I'll give you $1.

 

[zoogs]

You're telling people they are wrong for not agreeing with you that this movie is 

a flawed movie made in a ham-handed fashion by a studio with the resources and vision to have done better.  It's as simple as that.

People who like the movie generally think it's a good movie. You need to tell them that this movie is bad, and dismiss people explaining why things worked for them as offering "excuse after excuse". That there's "too much gushing", which leads to "crap" like this. To put it bluntly, it's pretty dickish. I don't know what you get out of that, and it's hard to buy this feigned confusion.

 

[knapplc]

Good god.  The culture of victimhood that surrounds these movies is getting beyond bearable. 

If you think expressing my opinion is "telling you you're wrong for liking this movie" then that's a you problem.