Redux
New member
That's not even a relevant thing to say in this instance. I don't care if you don't like the movies.
Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (Spoilers for Episode 7)
- Thread starter Saunders
- Start date
That's not even a relevant thing to say in this instance. I don't care if you don't like the movies.
Redux
New member
Honestly this is stupid. The prequel trilogy has a far more intricate story as a whole even if Episode 2 sucks and Episode 1 is boring most the time. What's the story in the original films that couldn't have been summed up in 1 movie if that's the discussion here? Vaders redemption? Luke's journey? Getting Leia in a metal bikini? Point is, again, I don't care if you don't like the prequels, or the new films for that matter. It just sticks in my craw when the original trilogy gets held in such regard as a Citizen Kane level achievement but anything after Jedi is trash just because. Jedi is one of the worst moveis in the series, and even then it's really good.
I seriously hate this thread.
I seriously hate this thread.
Cdog923
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RedDenver
Active member
Landlord
Banned
One thing that is kind of amusing is when people defend the prequels as being deeper/more complex than the OT or than people want to give them credit for. Reason being because George Lucas himself has (deceptively, imo) used the excuse that they were meant to be kids movies and spur a toy mania. Sure, George - good kids movies are full of political subterfuge.
Redux
New member
Glad I could help. Seriously, it has no bearing on me enjoying the films. Majority of people think they suck. I've never seen someone suddenly convinced otherwise once they're mind is made up be it over stubbornness or whatever. Even if they aren't as good as they could have been, and they aren't, they are still better than most movies.
Redux
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The movies were hurt by George marketing towards kids, the same exact effing way he crippled ROTJ.
Cdog923
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If you take an average of critic and audience scores from RT, the PT still has the lowest scores from any era of Star Wars:
A New Hope: 94.5%
Empire Strikes Back: 96%
Return of the Jedi: 87%
Phantom Menace: 57%
Attack of the Clones: 61%
Revenge of the Sith: 72%
The Force Awakens: 90%
Rogue One: 86%
The Last Jedi: 68.5%
Solo: 67%
Given this, I would be hard pressed to say that the PT are "still better than most movies", even though they do contain some great-to-excellent set pieces (Podracing, Qui-Gon/Obi Wan vs. Darth Maul, Obi Wan vs. Anakin) and great performances (Ewan McGregor's performance as Obi Wan is possibly the best in the entire series), but when you put them up against the other films in the series, let alone in the genre, they don't hold up.
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Cdog923
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Had George not aimed RotJ at kids and the toy market, Endor would have been a planet of Wookies and not Ewoks, but Han would have died in Carbonite.
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Redux
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Endor should have been Kashyyk, it would have saved the film from itself and made the fall of the empire instantly more meaningful. Regardless of Ford wanting that, it still wouldn't have happened because it would have been stupid.
And those percentages aren't hurt in any way by preconceptions and influence of others? This is a hill I'll gladly fall on. I and III are damn fine movies even with their flaws. Had II not been so damn cheesy and cringey, the PT would have been critiqued in a different light. After I was mostly politics, people were drained by II and the awkward love story. If II would have centered around the Clone War and not the start of it, III would be rated much higher.
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Making Chimichangas
Banned
Well said. This is exactly why, in story-telling, you flesh out the origins first--especially if you're going to start the story in the middle. That way, you're not trying to shoe-horn some convoluted origins story after the fact. I remember reading an article, tried to find it, but couldn't...
Spielberg, and bunch of his director buddies sat down and critiqued each other's work, including Lucas's rough cut of Star Wars...long story short, they ripped it apart. They cited scenes that made no sense, how x scene would be better if it was at y in the film, the dialogue, etc. George Lucas is a damn talentless hack who, somehow, managed to fail upwards. Ironically, the greatest Star Wars movie of the Lucas controlled era is "The Empire Strikes Back" and Lucas let other more competent filmmakers have control. And the Prequels, they all have their moments of brilliance, but overall, a freshman at USC's film school could probably put out better films than Lucas could--then or now.
Landlord
Banned
Based on... what? Just because you say things doesn't mean they have any element of truth to them.
Redux
New member
Based on the fact that most movies aren't that good. If you really want to be a hard on about my wording, seriously think about the statement for a second. If we are comparing the prequel movies to ALL other movies from Shawshank Redemption to Madea's Halloween II or whatever, I think the prequels would sit towards the more favorable side of the scale.
But this is one of those instances that you just want to jump on the majority side of a dispute to look good.
Landlord
Banned
Once again you're just saying something as a fact claim that isn't based off of anything other than the way you feel.
If you're counting every single movie ever made by professionals and amateurs alike over the course of human history, sure, but that's not the basis of comparison that anyone, including you, ever uses when talking about whether a movie is good or not. Maybe your original statement is even true and all the prequel movies are better than at least 51% of other movies in Hollywood - that's still not a compliment, and you still give no actual reason for claiming such a thing.
Redux
New member
I literally said they are better than most movies , so even if it was 51% the statement is true. And my reasoning is because I like them and I could give a damn if my statement is true because it was pretty clearly an opinionated statement. Don't be such a tool asking for numbers and studies to cement my claims. You're in a thread about Sci Fi movies, wtf do you expect other than opinion. Seriously?